Tennis elbow

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feelingjustfine
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Tennis elbow

Post by feelingjustfine »

Does anyone who suffers from tennis elbow know a way of making it a little better. It hurts when my arm trys to straighten out and it feeling like the bone is wedging and will be really painfull and the only way is to make a big crack sound which I'm sure isn't good for me. How does it form? Thats the best way I can describe it, weird feeling but painfull and annoying all at once and I've heard of a few boaters who have had this or "Golfers" elbow which is apparently on the inside of the elbow instead of mine on the outside.

If anyone uses any type of support or has done anything to make it "normal" again I'd be really interested to hear.

Cheers.

Chris.
dam the dart :)

tfraser
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Post by tfraser »

1.book free physio now.
2.Pay for one physio now.
3.Ice 4xday.
4.Find cause,break down all repetative jobs eg computor,driving(one handed on large tractors caused mine)paddling(no gripping only push/pull/rotation).If you cant isolate the cause then everything else is a waste of time.
5.I can paddle again after 4 months out however I have to follow a new style.1 no gripping.(difficult when anxious).2push/pull/rotation.2only paddle when you need eg one stroke per drop and well timed..So I am even poorer a boater than I was before but at least I m out again .Paddling this way fairly consentraits the mind but I think it can work.If you watch the top playboaters they dont use their paddles much anyway!.SEEYOU all the best Torq

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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

I find I can still paddle, not sure what the effect of emergency support stokes will be..

Physio has done little good so far (about 5 visits so far).

I do find I can do most things as normal (ish) and generally find that heavy stuff is OK the worst things are the little things that you just do without thinking, ie you just reach out to pickup a beer and excruciating pain...
Andy Lee
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feelingjustfine
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Post by feelingjustfine »

tfraser wrote:.....4.Find cause,break down all repetative jobs eg computor,driving........SEEYOU all the best Torq
Are you saying that excessive masturbation leads to tennis elbow?;-)

Hey Torq, remember to bring some more strawberrys on Tuesday to the Moriston, we'll be there normal time so hopefully see you on the water.
aleeivel wrote:I do find I can do most things as normal (ish) and generally find that heavy stuff is OK the worst things are the little things that you just do without thinking, ie you just reach out to pickup a beer and excruciating pain...
Yeah thats pretty much what I find, all day goes smooth till you go to open the car door then it all goes to shit...

Cheers for the tips mate.

Chris.
dam the dart :)

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chrisps
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Post by chrisps »

If you do goto a physio, make sure they are absolutely sure it is tennis elbow.

I had a thing called Ulna Tunnel Syndrome. Whereas tennis elbow is micro-tears in the tendons, UTS is where the nerves get inflamed because they are rubbing against the bones in the elbow. When they get inflamed too much, they start sticking, causing (potentially) really nasty pain.

The symptoms are almost indistinguishable from tennis elbow, but there are subtle differences and a good physio can pull you in different ways to work out which one it is. Dont be fobbed off though; I was told by two different people it was tennis elbow before I was eventually correctly diagnosed. Once the diagnosis was made, the physio did various exercises to a) stretch my nerves and b) stabilise my shoulders and elbows to reduce the pressure on my ulna nerve.

Within a month, I could paddle without any symptoms, even when doing the most extreme support stroke or PLF moment.

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justin-g
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Post by justin-g »

Man it up and stop being a sissy.
White water "rider"

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tizereyes
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Post by tizereyes »

I've had it when a huge ball of inflamed fluid appears on the elbow. Best treatment is Ibrobrufen gel directly onto swollen sore bit.

But this isn't your problem?

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feelingjustfine
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Post by feelingjustfine »

justin-g wrote:Man it up and stop being a sissy.
Why you gotta be so insensitive all the time?
dam the dart :)

driver
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Post by driver »

When I had a problem with my right elbow last year I ended up taking three months of paddling. I did the rest and ibuprofen gel as well. My elbow problem was not helped by the fact that I have a manual job and its not easy to rest it as I should.

I also tried and it did work for me was wearing a magnetic elbow support from www.magnetictherapy.co.uk

It might be worth considering.

tenboats1
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Post by tenboats1 »

justin-g wrote:Man it up and stop being a sissy.
I'm sure you are only joking, and I do have a sense of humour, but....this is the worst thing you could do.

Doing this landed me in hospital for an op on my elbow, almost cost me my job and several of my hobbies so get treatment sooner rather than later and if you have to rest it, make the effort to do just that. Better to loose a season than 5 years. Yes really.

I still have to be very careful when paddling. I don't play too much on the rivers, and avoid big crossing when sea paddling. Both are prone to flare things up very quickly.

Good luck.

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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

Have you tried BioFreeze Jel

Not sure about the long term benifit but after you have over done it a bit this can certainly help. Its like a cross between a freeze spray and deepheat at the same time quite a strange feeling but a lot nicer the the sharp pain of tennis elbow. It does wear of quite quickly though and smells a bit like Vick!!!
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ChrisBainbridge
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Post by ChrisBainbridge »

Hi, firstly tennis elbow has nothing to do with repetitive movements or jobs.

Secondly, once you have tennis elbow, it will hurt with most activities. However if you look at your activities and how to change thew way you do things then you can reduce the pain quite easily.

Tennis elbow will settle on its own. Physiotherapy may show you some stretches and ways to do things differently, but physio will not change the final outcome of your tennis elbow.

DO NOT have a steroid injection under any circumstances. All the research shows that they do not work in the long run and over all people who had steroid injections come out worse after a year.

Tennis elbow always gets better given time. Splints and stretches will reduce the pain whilst you do activities but it wil in general take 6-9 months to settle properly.

Chris
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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

ChrisBainbridge wrote:DO NOT have a steroid injection under any circumstances. All the research shows that they do not work in the long run and over all people who had steroid injections come out worse after a year.

Tennis elbow always gets better given time. Splints and stretches will reduce the pain whilst you do activities but it will in general take 6-9 months to settle properly.

Chris
Had another trip to the physio today and as Im of to the Alps in 5or 6 week time I'm keen that my arm will work!!!

Most of the paddlingwill be with the kids so my main concern is that if they need help my arm wont be a problem... from chatting to him extreme use of the arm will be OK, but will prob hurt a bit after maybe

He had previously suggested an injection might be the solution, so after seeing Chris's view I asked him about that, his view is that sometimes they just work and there is then little feed back, some times they take a little longer to work... and sometimes they do no good at all.

His view is that after another couple of weeks of physio if that hasnt made progress then trying the injection is worth trying but not to keep repeating.

He seems like he knows what he is talking about, he's a KIWI who is a paddler himself and also does a lot of other sports including climbing and tri-atholons, so i think i will go along with his judgement..
Andy Lee
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mark Hirst
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tennis elbow

Post by mark Hirst »

Hi
I had really bad wrist so I got a cranked carbon pair of werner stickine paddles. Next my elbow started giving me problems down to the lack of flex in my carbon paddles

what i am tyring to say is how flexiable is your paddle I am currently using a pair of glass paddles no probs now for a while

good luck mark

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Post by tfraser »

FJF where were you guys?We had the strawbs the champagne and even the bikini clad models from the second filming session on the Moriston.They were asking where the virile fort boaters were so we pretended we were you and that seemed to be a convincing story.

Chris Bainbridge can you explain tennis elbow cause then as it would help me with a better understanding of protection etc thanks.

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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

the latest exercise from the physio is holding a paddle sized tube and rolling it around a bit like paddling...
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feelingjustfine
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Post by feelingjustfine »

tfraser wrote:FJF where were you guys?We had the strawbs the champagne and even the bikini clad models from the second filming session on the Moriston.They were asking where the virile fort boaters were so we pretended we were you and that seemed to be a convincing story.
LOL! I'd love to see how long a bikini clad model would last in those midge's, it wasn't Thom in his kinky underwear again was it...?We had a sneaking feeling the Etive would be a goer so headed that direction to be greeted by this:-),

Image
Image
Image
Image

Then 2 days later we caught it at a similar level with warm water-sweet!

Will deffinatley look forward to the strawberrys and women on another occasion though! Hope you guys had fun.

Chris.
dam the dart :)

ChrisBainbridge
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Post by ChrisBainbridge »

What is tennis elbow?

Big question. I think the honest answer is we do not totally know. We know that it is not an inflammation. Therefore the terms, tendinitis and tenosynovitis are wrong. The best guess is that it is a degenerative condition of the tendon just as it leaves the bone. It is generally a self healing process.

How to treat tennis elbow?
There are a s many ideas on this as surgeons and physios. However there is some research of good quality. Cochrane reviews are a form of meta-analysis which combines the best studies and should give authoritiative answers. There outcome of reviews of Physio, clasps and surgery is pretty inconclusive. Most of this is because there have been few really good studies.

The best randomised trial of steroid versus physio versus nothing came from Brisbane and was published in the British Medical Journal about 18 months ago. This showed that steroid injections decreased pain for about a month but at one year the steroid group on average were worse off than the other two groups. The other two groups were identical at 1 year.

I know of no trials of surgery versus placebo but the published response rates are around 60-70% which is pretty much in the placebo range for an invasive procedure with such a strong self cure rate.

Ibuprofen has little if any benefit as one would expect for a non inflammatory condition and one comparative study suggested they were worse than steroid injections in terms of long term outcome.

So, what should you do. You need to control the pain. The pain is a result of some secondary spasm in the muscles and the actual damaged tissue. stretching the affected muscles can be useful in relieving the spasm as can be local massage. They will give a period of pain relief, typically a few hours, so you need to learn from the physio how to do them yourself.

Epicondylitis clasps again will help the pain by relieving the tension on the muscle. However you need to learn where to put the clasp for the most effect.

Finally you need to lift differently and do things differently. try lifting a full carton of milk with you hand facing palm down. painful. Now turn the han palm upmost and lift again. Your wrist extensors are now removed from the process and it should be less painful.

Many people find paracetamol helpful for the pain. Warmth may also help as may a neoprene type sleeve to support the area.

Hope this helps

Chris
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www.hand-surgery.co.uk
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Re: Tennis elbow

Post by Randy Fandango »

feelingjustfine wrote:It hurts when my arm trys to straighten out and it feeling like the bone is wedging and will be really painfull and the only way is to make a big crack sound which I'm sure isn't good for me.
That describes my left arm pretty well exactly all this year so far and my right arm all the way through 2005.
My right arm went during a sailing race -- 3 hours of holding a tiller or mainsheet in a strong wind and, hey presto, pain, inability to straighten my arm and swelling that took about 12 months to go down.
Using a sledge hammer for a few days early this year has had exactly the same effect on my left arm.
Neither arm has stopped me paddling (I would have starved if they had) but I suspect going paddling every day with them probably isn't much help in the healing process.
If I hold my arm out straight (or as straight as I can get it!) with the backs of my hands uppermost, the swollen and painful area is then the uppermost part of my elbow joint.
Is this tennis elbow or, as my doctor told me, golfers' elbow?
Giles

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Re: Tennis elbow

Post by aleeivel »

Randy Fandango wrote:
feelingjustfine wrote:It hurts when my arm trys to straighten out and it feeling like the bone is wedging and will be really painfull and the only way is to make a big crack sound which I'm sure isn't good for me.
That describes my left arm pretty well exactly all this year so far and my right arm all the way through 2005.
My right arm went during a sailing race -- 3 hours of holding a tiller or mainsheet in a strong wind and, hey presto, pain, inability to straighten my arm and swelling that took about 12 months to go down.
Using a sledge hammer for a few days early this year has had exactly the same effect on my left arm.
Neither arm has stopped me paddling (I would have starved if they had) but I suspect going paddling every day with them probably isn't much help in the healing process.
If I hold my arm out straight (or as straight as I can get it!) with the backs of my hands uppermost, the swollen and painful area is then the uppermost part of my elbow joint.
Is this tennis elbow or, as my doctor told me, golfers' elbow?
Giles
Best go see a good Physio
Andy Lee
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ChrisBainbridge
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Post by ChrisBainbridge »

Hi as you describe it with your arm stretched out in front of you palm tuned to face the ground and the outside of the elbow facing the ceiling. If it is the part of the elbow that faces the ceiling that has the pain then you have tennis elbow.. Your history is normal for tennis elbow. I would suggest some epicondylitis clasps and massage to control the pain BUT it will settle and go away eventually.

Chris
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David Fairweather
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Post by David Fairweather »

Along similar lines; does anyone know whether using things like a Powerball which exercises the whole arm from fingers to shoulder are a good means of strengthening muscles and recovering from injury, or will they just aggravate things further?

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Post by ChrisBainbridge »

Hi powerballs are a good technique for essentially isometric exercise. I would not reccomend it for tennis elbow in the early stages, however after any hand/forearm injury where the tissues are healed then the powerball should be good.
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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

What ever you do the big rule is dont carry on when it start to hurt. I got a new exercise from the physio last week but didnt get time to do it much so @ the weekend I over did it and it was agony today!!!
Andy Lee
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Post by SteelRiverRunner »

I went to see Dr. Quack about this time last year when my right elbow started giving my gyp, only to be told I'd been there 3 years (to the week) earlier with exactly the same symptoms - I'd forgotten all about it!
Anyway he gave me the usual blurb: painkillers, take a few days off (not really feasible) or stop w@nki... er, I mean lifting heavy weights etc... So I went out in the kayak and was back a week later with tendonitis of the wrist!
Doc said "You're just not that bright" or words to that effect; more painkillers (this time I did gave up the onanism for a week)... and the wrist got better.
However to date the elbow has not completely recovered. By which I mean it aches perpetually; I can still do everything I need to with it, some things make it hurt more; sometimes certain movements of the wrist make it feel like an electric shock has gone up my arm... hey ho, that's middle age for you I guess.
Incidentally, am I the only person who finds that off-the-shelf painkillers like ibruprofen are about as much use as wishing the pain would go away? I tend to save my money and just man-up ;O) I'm only moaning about it here because you lot started it...
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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

cant say I've found any pain killers that make any difference to the elbow...

Got next physio tomorrow so see how that goes, he did acupuncture last time
Andy Lee
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feelingjustfine
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Post by feelingjustfine »

aleeivel wrote:.....Got next physio tomorrow so see how that goes, he did acupuncture last time
OMG-please don't tell me you beleive that shit works man! If you do, make sure you get your note pad and pen out and start writing to santa, he might bring you a new elbow for crimbo instead...
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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

Didnt say I believed it worked, but as I've not found any drugs that work so I'll go with the flow. Physio says it sometimes works and is worth trying before going for the injection!!! Which also may or may not work!!!
Andy Lee
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ChrisBainbridge
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Post by ChrisBainbridge »

Physio says it sometimes works and is worth trying before going for the injection!!! Which also may or may not work!!!
The trouble is that as tennis elbow is a self healing condition almost everything "may or may not work". However the evidence is that steroid injections while they may make you a bit better in the first couple of weeks will make you worse off at a year with more chronic pain.

As I have said before Ibuprofen will not work as tennis elbow is not an inflammatory condition. Ibuprofen only works when the pain is caused by inflammation.

Chris
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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel »

not sure if the acupuncture has helped but it does seemto be getting a bit better
Andy Lee
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