Afon Llugwy North Wales - Pont Cyffin Siphon Images

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mcneilljamie
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Afon Llugwy North Wales - Pont Cyffin Siphon Images

Post by mcneilljamie » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:02 am

Stopped off at PC whilst coming back from Betws the other day. The river is super low and the siphon can be seen just above the last drop. Pics here if anyone is interested.

J

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We also have a new access stile which is cool as it has a place to put the kayak!

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All the best.

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banzer
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Post by banzer » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:06 pm

Siphon = yuck.

Stile = cool! Who was behind that great idea?
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feelingjustfine
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Post by feelingjustfine » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:15 pm

Man it is cool rock at PC, I miss that place, it is undoutabley my favourite chill out spot in the UK when the sun is shining and a few beers and beautiful women are at hand...CC rules!
dam the dart :)

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Dave @ TRC
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Post by Dave @ TRC » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:34 pm

Looking at that in low water
giving it one or two good hits on the top left with a sledge hammer would see off that siphon next high water.

Dave
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KelvinH
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Post by KelvinH » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:46 pm

What then? Dynamite to remove sticky holes? We paddle harder rivers because of the dangers, please do not destroy them,
Paddle safe,
Kelvin.

mcneilljamie
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Post by mcneilljamie » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:07 pm

Hi Dave,

I had been thinking the same thing myself...

Kelvin

I know what your trying to say but the constant presence of flowers near the site is testament to the victims that have drowned here.

As an amateur geologist I would normally detest the destruction of formations such as these but its removal *may* prevent deaths.

Its a funny one to weigh up, and I expect those who may have lost loved ones to this siphon to hold a strong oppinion on the matter.

I just do my best to avoid paddling PC at all.

J

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Dave @ TRC
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Post by Dave @ TRC » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:47 am

KelvinH wrote:What then? Dynamite to remove sticky holes? We paddle harder rivers because of the dangers, please do not destroy them,
Paddle safe,
Kelvin.
Can you get some ?

Then I can take out the dog leg to. Theres a top play hole there in high water around the middle fall but the dog leg is just a killer .


Or we could just fill in the slot on the dog leg I can lay bricks anyone want to mix for me and carry some bricks down for me .


Dave
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quicky
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Post by quicky » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:48 am

Find it crazy now that our school took us boulder hopping down there as a kid...

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Post by action_girl72 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:31 am

Was that at Oaklands?

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banzer
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Post by banzer » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:53 am

Dave, I'm with you on that one. If the emphasis is on safety for all rather than just improving our fun, I don't see that as a problem. As Jamie says, PC sees tragic incidents from people walking and jumping from the rocks all too often.
I'd be keen for some dynamite for this little number, which is at the end of an otherwise great rapid. I spoke to the estate manage who said his dog had drowned in it. So Dave if you get hold of some, let me know! Some late night balaclava raids needed methinks (anyone know how to get hold of the Paddle Terrorists?)...
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Rick Foster
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Post by Rick Foster » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:03 am


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Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:15 am

I've heard Beachy Head is a bit dodgy. Perhaps that should be graded back to a 45 degree slope. White Cliffs of Dover are a bit steep too, we could flatten them down a bit. Fairy Glen, that can be awkward and might benefit from a couple of tons of concrete.

Anyone else got some suggestions for the H&S lobby to have a go at?

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Patrick Clissold
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Post by Patrick Clissold » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:19 am

I can't tell if people are serious or not on this thread, if they are then god help us all.

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quicky
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Post by quicky » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:20 am

Was that at Oaklands?
Nope just my old school Rockferry High.

We went a few places with them climbing that I would never go now due to the safety (or lack of ) of the areas.

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Post by kernel » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:19 pm

Wow. I hope you're all joking.
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AlexC
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Troll

Post by AlexC » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:43 pm

In reply to Dave @ TRC
Like the others posting on this thread, I was taken in for a moment and thought you were actually serious.
Probably best to clarify that you were only jesting, just in case people don't realise that...

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Post by banzer » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm

I'm not joking. I know that it would be illegal so I'm not proposing to actually do it, but if hypothetically I was allowed to, and had all the right permission and training, then bring it on. You should see the rapid above that syphon - it's class, and sadly unrunnable because of this yucky arch that's no use to man nor beast.
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Post by kernel » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:29 pm

It's nature. Why should you just get to destroy bits because they're (a) dangerous (to those who choose to be near them) or (b) because they're preventing you from having fun?
Ross Lynch

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Tony Aiuto
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Post by Tony Aiuto » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:52 pm

kernel wrote:It's nature. Why should you just get to destroy bits because they're (a) dangerous (to those who choose to be near them) or (b) because they're preventing you from having fun?
I'm playing devils advocate here, but

We have been doing this since "forever"

Is a tree falling into, onto a river not a natural occurrance?

Do we (paddlers) leave them were they are or do we try to clear a safe passage?

I'm all for taking calculated risks within our sport, to get my old ticker racing, but I would still like to be able to manage those risks as much as possible to prevent serious injury or death
Tony Aiuto

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Post by NICKWHITE0639 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:55 pm

kernel wrote:It's nature. Why should you just get to destroy bits because they're (a) dangerous (to those who choose to be near them) or (b) because they're preventing you from having fun?
We're quite happy to change Symonds yat,Nomads,Jackfields though?Just a thought.

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Post by kernel » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:37 pm

A tree is something temporary, whereas bedrock is not (in terms of our lifespans).

Why not lop a few kilometers off Everest – that would make it easier to climb.

This is just my opinion and I do see your point regarding safety. I think that in some cases in the 'natural playground' you just have to walk away. Otherwise there's an arguement for altering every river to remove potential dangers.

Nick, I'm actually in Ireland, so I'm not familiar with those venues and maybe that invalidates my opinion a bit, but it remains.
Ross Lynch

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Post by cathalferris » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:11 pm

When were the last really major floods on this river, and how large are the 5year / 20 year / 100 year etc floods?

I ask as if there was enough flow to move a decently sized boulder into the arch over the siphon it's have a good chance of knocking it out and making a killer siphon a hard but paddleable drop.

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Post by cswalker » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:35 pm

Ridiculous idea, let me dynamite your car, because it is a risk to me when I ride my bicycle, oh and let me dynamite your kayak and rip up your kayaking gear because it my cause me some bizarre injury, oh in fact lets knock down your house to because I may be walking past it when an earthquake happens that will cause a bit of it to fall on me and kill or hurt me!!

I really hope this is a joke thread, if not its a retarded suggestion. As paddlers and individuals we make decisions that affect our actions. Sometimes the consequences are awful but life is about choices, suck it up and live with them. We cannot go around cotton wooling everything that hurts us once to prevent it from happening again.

And for reference, it is not the syphon on this fall that has caused most deaths, it is the river flow and caving / rock formations in the zone at the base of the fall!

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Post by steddyjames » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:39 pm

cswalker wrote:And for reference, it is not the syphon on this fall that has caused most deaths, it is the river flow and caving / rock formations in the zone at the base of the fall!
Well obviously the river flow needs to be diverted (lay a pipe maybe?) or the caves filled in!! Can't understand why it hasn't been done already!

We all also need scuba tanks fitted to our kayaks, no safety concisous paddler would go out without one surely ;-)

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Debaser
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Post by Debaser » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:45 pm

It looks like nature is attempting to get rid of it anyway.

To me the top highlighted area looks like a water-borne object has taken a significant piece out of the arch, and below and to the right is there a potential fault line? That wouldn't leave much thickness of stone above the arch. I'm not familiar with the feature, so does that seem feasible?

Given time, some high volume floods and large enough rocks and this may well be 'taken out' by Mother Nature.

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Post by Dr Robin » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:10 pm

There was a particular rock on the Shotover river in New Zealand which had caused several accidents, and the authorities were threatening to shut down the rafting because it was too dangerous. Then in the middle of the night there was a big bang, and in the morning, as if by magic, no rock!

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Post by Randy Fandango » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:40 pm

cswalker wrote: And for reference, it is not the syphon on this fall that has caused most deaths, it is the river flow and caving / rock formations in the zone at the base of the fall!
I think this is worth reiterating.
I'm not sure the syphon has really been a particular issue on this horrible drop -- I've always been of the impression that its the caving at the bottom and the big chunk of rock one would piton down behind towards river left if one were dumb enough to have a go.
Giles

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Post by chucky-matty » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:56 pm

Sorry for this post and no doubt it will be deleted but who ever says it's a stupid idea to bow it up then you go and paddle it and see how much of a stupid idea it is then!
Its an amazing section that kills numerous amounts of people young and old.
Anything that can be done to prevent this or reduce the numbers is a good idea and i think i may well go down there myself and blow it up.

Oh and you cant compare a car and a bike to a syphon!

Call yourselves well educated, get real and live in the real world.

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aleeivel
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Post by aleeivel » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:10 pm

has anyone got a picture of the drop in high water !!! if you see the cork screw nature of the fall I dont think it is paddleable just because of the way the water folds back on itself, long time since I've seem it in any water level though!!!
Andy Lee
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Post by cswalker » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:14 pm

chucky-matty wrote:Sorry for this post and no doubt it will be deleted but who ever says it's a stupid idea to bow it up then you go and paddle it and see how much of a stupid idea it is then!
Its an amazing section that kills numerous amounts of people young and old.
Anything that can be done to prevent this or reduce the numbers is a good idea and I think I may well go down there myself and blow it up.

Oh and you cant compare a car and a bike to a syphon!

Call yourselves well educated, get real and live in the real world.
Ketlle, Pot, Black

Life is about choices, too dangerous or the risks are too high, don't do it!

Typical developed world attitude, blow it up, dam it, destroy it, burn it etc etc.

We are guests of mother nature, we enjoy our outdoor activities because of her. We should be ambassodors to her and show the rest of the idiots in the UK that we are big enough to still care about what little of wild Britain is left without having to destroy it because you make a choice in an activity that you may get hurt in![/b]

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