Changing feather of Werners

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RichA
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Changing feather of Werners

Post by RichA » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:21 pm

Edit - Old topic brought back to life, please skip to the end for my new questions!

Is it possible to change the feather of Werner paddles, specifically Double Diamonds? I'm thinking of buying a set second hand that are 45deg but I want something closer to 20deg. Is it possible to change them, or is the blade moulded into the shaft in a silly way that doesn't allow it?
Last edited by RichA on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: Changing feather of Werners

Post by Simon Westgarth » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:24 pm

RichA wrote:Is it possible to change the feather of Werner paddles, specifically Double Diamonds? I'm thinking of buying a set second hand that are 45deg but I want something closer to 20deg. Is it possible to change them, or is the blade moulded into the shaft in a silly way that doesn't allow it?
It is possible to change them, but you must use an odd sized spigot, and this have proved a problem for AS Watersports to convert my old Stikines into splits. Perhaps you should contact Werner for specific instructions.

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RichA
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Post by RichA » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:29 pm

Simon, are you suggesting cutting the shaft in the middle and inserting a spigot? As opposed to softening the epoxy holding the blades onto the shaft and rotating the blades seperate to the shaft.

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mole
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Post by mole » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:34 pm

I would have thought the "squashed shaft" method of indexing the Werner shaft means you have to do it as Simon suggests.

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Post by Simon Westgarth » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:58 pm

RichA wrote:Simon, are you suggesting cutting the shaft in the middle and inserting a spigot? As opposed to softening the epoxy holding the blades onto the shaft and rotating the blades seperate to the shaft.
With the Werner foam core paddles, the paddle is moulded onto the paddle shaft, thus the blade can not be removed. A straight cut in the middle, insert a spigot, IF you can find one, and epoxy them back together. If you have glass or carbon pressure moulded Werner paddles, I would still cut the shaft, and never try to remove the blades. Heating up the Skypole Shaft is difficult and often leads to breakage's or complete failure under load.

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Dave @ TRC
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Post by Dave @ TRC » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:13 pm

I just put some h20 blades on my cranked carbon player shafts. The only way the Werner blades where coming off the shaft was with a grinder. This is not possible without destroying the blades and then a sander to clean the shaft up after ready or the new blades.


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Simon Westgarth
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Post by Simon Westgarth » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:34 pm

Dave @ TRC wrote:I just put some h20 blades on my cranked carbon player shafts. The only way the Werner blades where coming off the shaft was with a grinder. This is not possible without destroying the blades and then a sander to clean the shaft up after ready or the new blades.
Such beastly behaviour replacing glassfibre with plastic blades!!

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Post by guy » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:28 pm

Rough stuff use skypole shafts. You may get a spigot from them.

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Post by Dave @ TRC » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:29 pm

simon d westgarth wrote:
Dave @ TRC wrote:I just put some h20 blades on my cranked carbon player shafts. The only way the Werner blades where coming off the shaft was with a grinder. This is not possible without destroying the blades and then a sander to clean the shaft up after ready or the new blades.
Such beastly behaviour replacing glass fibre with plastic blades!!
Reviving dead paddles. I just could not bring my self to through away £300 blades even busted blades.

And really did not like the h20 shaft now have some top rock bashers for the big T in the summer

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Post by davebrads » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:53 pm

It should be easy enough to get someone to make you a spigot out of wood, the extra weight over a carbon spigot isn't really that great, and won't make a vast difference located in the middle of the shaft.

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Post by Chris C » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:47 pm

I am guessing you have the cranked shaft dd. If so heat the joint up gently and slowly you can break the glue. Twist the paddle apart, get a new spigot (if needed) play around with feather etc use araldite or other 2 part epoxy to glue the paddle back together, once happy.

Take your time keep the heat gun moving over the spigot joint area and it should work fine

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Post by ChrisMac » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:56 pm

Desperate Measures altered my skypole werners at a very reasonable price using the spigot method.

ChrisMac

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RichA
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Post by RichA » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:28 am

Sorry to drag this back up again, but I'm hopefully buying a second hand set of cranker Werner Players over the weekend. The only problem is that they're set at 45deg feather, and I want closer to 30deg.

The shaft used on the Players is bonded in the middle to adjust the crank. After talking to a canoe shop yesterday I was informed that the centre of the shaft is bonded with a 'permanent epoxy'. As far as I'm aware there's no such thing as permanent, and after doing a dissertation involving a lot of work with epoxy adhesives, most of them soften at around 30/40deg celcius.

Is this the case for Werners? Can I just heat up the shaft in the middle with a hair drier etc and twist them round? I have plenty of epoxy so might completely remove them and re-bond them, assuming I can seperate them in the first place!

Thanks,
Rich

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Post by Glyn B » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:51 pm

I did this with my AT's. Used An old piece of bicycle handlebar as it was an interference fit and then epoxyed it. Two seasons on it's showing no signs of giving up.

As a matter of interest, if you're going to alter the feather to 20, why not go the whole hog and zero it? Leaves your hands in the right position on the cranks all the time and minimizes the risk of tendonitis.

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RichA
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Post by RichA » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:04 pm

Thanks, I know that most paddles use an epoxy with a low Tg but after having been told Werner use a 'permanent' epoxy I just wanted to hear other people's experiences before I tried it! ;-)

As for zero feather, I was going to have a play with them when they were unbonded before rejoining them so I can find the best angle for me. Not necessarily sticking to 30deg.

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RVabdn
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Post by RVabdn » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:07 pm

Why not contact werner? Surely they'll know best.

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RichA
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Post by RichA » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:10 pm

Yes, you're right. But after hearing from a professional shop that it's not possible to DIY, I'm after recommendations from the general public before going down the professional route again. I will do if necessary.

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Post by Glyn B » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:10 pm

Took me about 10 mins to get used to 0 feather and now wouldn't want to use anything else. (Apparently they should help IF I learn how to bow stall!)

I've even adapted my splits so if I need 'em I don't have to get used to a feather in a nasty situation.

Sad but true.

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freddie
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Post by freddie » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:19 pm

I had a set of Werner cranks come loose in the middle, so I'd imagine you would be able to adjust the feather if you manage to melt the solvent a bit.
I stuck them back with some Araldite and they're fine. (Although sticking a blade back on with it didn't seem to work so well, but I think that's my fault.)

Also, I much prefer ~25 degrees to 0, it feels much nicer and when paddling your wrists rotate a little anyway.

As for bowstalling, personally it's much better for me with some feather, as it allows me to scoop the water a little for support and to spin, and still have some support from the other blade.

Lee.

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Post by chris leesmith » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 am

I wouldn't mess around with the werners if I were you. Even if it is possible it may take a great deal of time to achieve, you will weaken the shaft by heating if your not really carefull too. You will need a DIY hot air gun cos a hairdryer is too weedy.

If you have to do it rather than buy new then I suggest an external metal spigot. This means you can chop the paddles directly in the middle, glue the external spigot on one side, let it go off and then glue the other side (control hand) and set the feather and allow to go off. Not forgeting to abrade the surfaces you intend to glue!

Good luck.

Chris

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Post by paddledragger » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:43 pm

If you're wanting to split a straight shaft Werner, use the metal tube from the top of a Dyson Vacuum Cleaner (think they call it the 'wand' section), as it's the perfect diameter to slide in, whilst allowing sufficient araldite in, to form a super-strong joint.

Don't go hacking away at the wife's new £200 toy though...............i got mine from a Dyson repair shop for free !!!

Not sure about the cranked variety, as there doesn't seem to be much straight/round shaft to allow a decent length of sleeve to be fitted, to give sufficient strength.

Hope this helps.

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