A boat to start off with

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James Ward
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A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Hi

I am looking for advice on a used boat to start off with.



Around 30 years ago for a few years I used to go Kayaking and was in a club and did a bit of mucking around in a fiberglass thing and a big heavy plastic thing. I did 2 star. Haven't touched a boat since.

However I am now living near a river and the kids are at an age where I can do stuff :)

I will be joining a club and have looked that up already but as I have the river Avon down the road in Worcestershire I want a boat to muck around in and i'm a bit confused with all the different types on offer?

I want to river run and play in the weirs and maybe Symonds Yat type rapids to start of with for the time being.

Currently looking at RPM MAX and Inazone 242?

Any help would be gratefully appreciated



Cheers



Jamie

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Terryg »

You say you intend to join a club, this is your first step. Then use club boats until you know what is suitable for the paddling you intend to do.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Poke »

Both of those are solid options. Old designs, but good.

RPM Max will be a bit more stable, and a little faster on flat water (not that you'd really notice).

The Inazone 242 is the largest in the inazone range, but I think it will still be a little more likely to catch edges than the RPM. However, it has a flat hull and will be a bit more playful when it comes to surfing waves/holes.

Just make sure you know enough about weirs to know which ones you can play in safely!!
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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Terryg wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:39 pm
You say you intend to join a club, this is your first step. Then use club boats until you know what is suitable for the paddling you intend to do.
Hi and thanks for the reply.

Yes I do :) I will be joining a club and know exactly what club and why but timing is dependent on a few things. Health being one of them so I will do this when I feel comfortable in doing so.

In the meantime I would like a boat to muck around in when I can which is again health dependent. I want something that I can go 2 minutes on a whim, plonk in the river and have a play. Or go up the road to the lake and mess about in there for now. I am thinking that when in the club for a year or so I will be looking to upgrade. Or maybe not who can tell . I do know that I am looking for a little bit of advise and as I am looking for a cheap and cheerful runner it would be no hassle to just sell on/give away when I want. Hope this clears things up a little :)
Last edited by James Ward on Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Both of those are solid options. Old designs, but good.

RPM Max will be a bit more stable, and a little faster on flat water (not that you'd really notice).

The Inazone 242 is the largest in the inazone range, but I think it will still be a little more likely to catch edges than the RPM. However, it has a flat hull and will be a bit more playful when it comes to surfing waves/holes.

Just make sure you know enough about weirs to know which ones you can play in safely!!
No worries. There are a couple of weirs near me that the club and a few others come to play in and I am still in the area where I used to go many years ago. But understandably I will check first before diving in and I need to be confident in the boat before going near any faster moving water :)

So I am on the right lines for a boat then?

Is the Zone1 the same as an Inazone and I have just seen another although more expensive boat on which is a Liquid Logic Grande + ?

Cheers again

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Poke »

I'd have said the Z1 (Z.one) is probably midway between the RPM and inazone 242 you're looking at in terms of playfullness vs likelihood of catching edges... though they're all very much the same type of boat. It is a newer design, for what it's worth. If it's a similar price, certainly consider it, but if you're likely to upgrade in a year or two, it might not be worth it?

Assume the other boat you're on about is the LL Jefe Grande? That's a different type of boat entirely. It is much more stable and much less playful. Originally designed as a creek boat. They can be good for beginners due to their stability, but (provided you're not put off by more frequent dunkings) I'd advise going for one of the other three as you're more likely to learn faster.
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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:16 pm
I'd have said the Z1 (Z.one) is probably midway between the RPM and inazone 242 you're looking at in terms of playfullness vs likelihood of catching edges... though they're all very much the same type of boat. It is a newer design, for what it's worth. If it's a similar price, certainly consider it, but if you're likely to upgrade in a year or two, it might not be worth it?

Assume the other boat you're on about is the LL Jefe Grande? That's a different type of boat entirely. It is much more stable and much less playful. Originally designed as a creek boat. They can be good for beginners due to their stability, but (provided you're not put off by more frequent dunkings) I'd advise going for one of the other three as you're more likely to learn faster.
Brilliant stuff! Those are the magic three then. Now all I got to do is get one lol :)

Much appreciated again @Poke . Fantastic help and I will catch up and let you know how I get on.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Strad »

I would add the dagger GT series to your list, not too aggressive in terms of edge, but enough to be a good learning platform. Low cost as well. There are 4 versions so worth working out weight including kit and deciding which will fit you. (I'm 6'4" 19 stone and liked the GT Max when I reviewed it)

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Strad wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:16 pm
I would add the dagger GT series to your list, not too aggressive in terms of edge, but enough to be a good learning platform. Low cost as well. There are 4 versions so worth working out weight including kit and deciding which will fit you. (I'm 6'4" 19 stone and liked the GT Max when I reviewed it)

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I did look at those too at some point but couldn’t work out sizing as they had a GTX and a GT max. Sorry I just realised that I didn’t mention in the first post that I’m little over 6’1” and around 14 stone 5.

Gives me another option to look for though cheers

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Sorry about the questions but there is another I would like to ask about as it’s up the road from me.

It’s the Pyranha Master gt? It’s cheap and it also looks cheap? Any views in comparison with the others?

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by twopigs »

Another vote for looking at the Dagger GT range .... the Max might be too big for you. Pyranhna Master GT? At the risk of upsetting people - no ..... nothing like the Daggers of the InaZone/Z1.
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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by davebrads »

James Ward wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:49 am
Sorry about the questions but there is another I would like to ask about as it’s up the road from me.

It’s the Pyranha Master gt? It’s cheap and it also looks cheap? Any views in comparison with the others?
It's a boat that is marketed for centres really who want a cheap boat that is easy to paddle so that the learning curve isn't too steep. You are much better off with the previous suggestions.
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by RobL »

I'm a similar height/weight to you. My first boat was an Inazone 242. I loved it, but as I progressed and was carrying more "leader" stuff in the back I found the tail caught me out too many times. Next boat I got was a Liquid Logic Hoss. They are the biggest size of the Lil'Joe/Trigger family. Unfashionable and relatively cheap I found it really stable and forgiving. It also has great rescue bars for coaching people in deep water rescues. Downside was it eventually wore out! I don't think my original Inazone would have ever worn through!!!! Also when doing my 4* the instructors kept telling me I needed a bigger boat. I would defo buy again at some point in the future....
Currently paddle a Pyrahna Ammo L - it's ok, but as it's newer feels less well made. Again unfashionable, so cheap second hand. I've also got a Perception Blaze 7.3 which despite its age is the best made hull I've ever owned. It's a a "river/play" design that was the last WW one that they did before they put all their WW designs under the Dagger name.
Hope some of that helps.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Franky »

+1 for a Dagger GT. I learned to paddle in a GT 7.8. I'm 5'7" and 12.5 stone, and I was on the upper end of its weight range, so you would probably want either a GTX or a GT Max.

The GT is a nice responsive boat with fairly hard edges, so it's good for learning boat control on easy water. It's not hard to paddle, but not too forgiving either, so your technique can progress quite quickly.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

RobL wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:36 pm
I'm a similar height/weight to you. My first boat was an Inazone 242. I loved it, but as I progressed and was carrying more "leader" stuff in the back I found the tail caught me out too many times. Next boat I got was a Liquid Logic Hoss. They are the biggest size of the Lil'Joe/Trigger family. Unfashionable and relatively cheap I found it really stable and forgiving. It also has great rescue bars for coaching people in deep water rescues. Downside was it eventually wore out! I don't think my original Inazone would have ever worn through!!!! Also when doing my 4* the instructors kept telling me I needed a bigger boat. I would defo buy again at some point in the future....
Currently paddle a Pyrahna Ammo L - it's ok, but as it's newer feels less well made. Again unfashionable, so cheap second hand. I've also got a Perception Blaze 7.3 which despite its age is the best made hull I've ever owned. It's a a "river/play" design that was the last WW one that they did before they put all their WW designs under the Dagger name.
Hope some of that helps.

Hi and thanks for that insight. Really helpfull.

Is the Liquid Logic Hoss a creek boat as its more rounded?

I am liking the inazone but there is a RPM MAX on Ebay for £325 that I like. I see most boats already sold are at around £150 and £250 but people are asking for a lot more currently. Maybe seasonal? I think I am swinging more the RPM MAX way to be honest.

And then I start thinking maybe get that GT Master up the road as im rubbish and it doesnt really matter and it would be easy. But I think I would be settling.

All this is really helping though so thanks for that.

Finding athe right boat at the right price and distance is becoming quite a challenge lol :)

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Franky wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:47 pm
+1 for a Dagger GT. I learned to paddle in a GT 7.8. I'm 5'7" and 12.5 stone, and I was on the upper end of its weight range, so you would probably want either a GTX or a GT Max.

The GT is a nice responsive boat with fairly hard edges, so it's good for learning boat control on easy water. It's not hard to paddle, but not too forgiving either, so your technique can progress quite quickly.
Great so I WOULD be OK in a GTX then cheers for that. Finding a GTX is quite difficult. Loads of Gt's .

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Franky »

James Ward wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:05 am
Great so I WOULD be OK in a GTX then cheers for that. Finding a GTX is quite difficult. Loads of Gt's .
Please note - I don't guarantee anything! I totally endorse terryg's advice about joining a club and demoing some of their boats before you buy. One man's fish is another man's poisson. People come in all shapes and sizes, and move in different ways. How you feel about a boat is a very personal thing - that's partly why there are so many boats available.

It's always tempting to want to buy a new toy, but I wouldn't rush into buying a boat without paddling it - not unless you've got pots of money, because the chance of buying a boat that suits you at random is pretty small. You might buy 4 or 5 before you find one you like.

If joining a club isn't in the immediate offing, you might be able to demo boats at a white water centre, if you live near one. At Lee Valley, you can hire boats and paddle on the lake, and I don't *think* you have to take an assessment for that, although you do have to become a member (and I don't know whether you have to pay for that these days).

I don't know what the situation is at Cardiff or Tees Barrage, i.e. whether there's flat water you can paddle on to demo boats. (From the sound of it, you're not anticipating paddling white water immediately.) As for Holme Pierrepont at Nottingham, I think you can hire demo boats from the Desperate Measures shop and take them onto the lake.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Anyone know boat what this is as the guy doesnt know?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks- ... 1365542945

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by G7AFM »

Looks like an early GT series you need to get him to measure the length tip to tip

where abouts are you based

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Franky wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:05 pm
James Ward wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:05 am
Great so I WOULD be OK in a GTX then cheers for that. Finding a GTX is quite difficult. Loads of Gt's .
Please note - I don't guarantee anything! I totally endorse terryg's advice about joining a club and demoing some of their boats before you buy. One man's fish is another man's poisson. People come in all shapes and sizes, and move in different ways. How you feel about a boat is a very personal thing - that's partly why there are so many boats available.

Please I do see your point but if I demo'd a boat I wouldnt know if it was a bad boat or a good boat in the 5 minutes of paddling about or even capsizing. I would probably need a few months of use before knowing if its OK or not. The only thing I would judge it on is whether I can fit in it and I can get a good sense of that from advice.

It's always tempting to want to buy a new toy, but I wouldn't rush into buying a boat without paddling it - not unless you've got pots of money, because the chance of buying a boat that suits you at random is pretty small. You might buy 4 or 5 before you find one you like.

As I stated previously . I will be buying a cheap second hand boat and not a spangly new one. If its no good and I dont like it I will sell it on or give it away at a couple of hundred quid max this isnt a problem. Time and effort is more the issue for me.

If joining a club isn't in the immediate offing, you might be able to demo boats at a white water centre, if you live near one. At Lee Valley, you can hire boats and paddle on the lake, and I don't *think* you have to take an assessment for that, although you do have to become a member (and I don't know whether you have to pay for that these days).

I don't know what the situation is at Cardiff or Tees Barrage, i.e. whether there's flat water you can paddle on to demo boats. (From the sound of it, you're not anticipating paddling white water immediately.) As for Holme Pierrepont at Nottingham, I think you can hire demo boats from the Desperate Measures shop and take them onto the lake.
These are all quite a way away for me as Im in Worcestershire but as I said above, I dont think I would know what a good boat or a bad boat is or is suppsoed to feel like just by tootling up and down some water. I think this would work if I werent a total newb and knew partially what I was doing then I would demo before buying because I would want something specific out of it.

Cheers for the advice though again I do appreciate it.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

G7AFM wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:36 pm
Looks like an early GT series you need to get him to measure the length tip to tip

where abouts are you based
Im in Worcestershire somewhere between jct 9 and jct 7 M5.

Brilliant! I'll ask him to measure cheers for that. I did ask him if tehre was anything on it and he said "only the Dagger bit" :)

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Strad »

G7AFM wrote:Looks like an early GT series you need to get him to measure the length tip to tip

where abouts are you based
Maybe be a honcho (or whatever the smaller one was called) , not a bad boat, but you led want to check the size.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Strad wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:29 pm
G7AFM wrote:Looks like an early GT series you need to get him to measure the length tip to tip

where abouts are you based
Maybe be a honcho (or whatever the smaller one was called) , not a bad boat, but you led want to check the size.

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He just got back and said he made it 2470mm long

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Strad »

James Ward wrote:
Strad wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:29 pm
G7AFM wrote:Looks like an early GT series you need to get him to measure the length tip to tip

where abouts are you based
Maybe be a honcho (or whatever the smaller one was called) , not a bad boat, but you led want to check the size.

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He just got back and said he made it 2470mm long
Could be a honcho or a GTX at that size (allowing for some tape measure error) and, from my perspective, difficulty seeing detail of the photo on a film

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by G7AFM »

Strad wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:35 pm
James Ward wrote:
Strad wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Maybe be a honcho (or whatever the smaller one was called) , not a bad boat, but you led want to check the size.

Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk

He just got back and said he made it 2470mm long
Could be a honcho or a GTX at that size (allowing for some tape measure error) and, from my perspective, difficulty seeing detail of the photo on a film

Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk
As you say at that size 2470mm (8.1) in old money makes it the GTX size.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by Adrian Cooper »

The boat will have a name on it on the back deck under the paddle

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

G7AFM wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:01 pm
Strad wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:35 pm
James Ward wrote:

He just got back and said he made it 2470mm long
Could be a honcho or a GTX at that size (allowing for some tape measure error) and, from my perspective, difficulty seeing detail of the photo on a film

Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk
As you say at that size 2470mm (8.1) in old money makes it the GTX size.
I think I’m going to take a punt and go for it. He’s knocking £25 off for the travel as it’s 2 hrs away.
If it’s a GTX then it’s just the right size and they are a challenge to get.

There is this one and a Inazone 242 on offer around the same price so just got to pick one 🤨
Last edited by James Ward on Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:16 pm
The boat will have a name on it on the back deck under the paddle
He already said there aren’t any markings or anything on the boat unfortunately

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by G7AFM »

Did you get the pm james

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Re: A boat to start off with

Post by James Ward »

G7AFM wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:00 pm
Did you get the pm james
Just looked and doesn’t look like I have any pm’s?

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