Paddling from the Back

Inland paddling
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Colin C
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Paddling from the Back

Post by Colin C » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:21 pm

I was chatting to someone about American kayaks and I recollect being told that Americans paddle their boats "from the back" more than Europeans do, I understand that American boats boats are designed to accommodate this and that the new Burn had also moved in this direction, as its market was America. I understand that the concept of "paddling from the back" means that more strokes and turning takes place from the back of the boat, but my understanding of this is vague, so I may have got it all wrong, or its pile of rubbish. Can anyone shed any light on this, as the conversation has sparked my curiosity.

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ion
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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by ion » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:20 am

Someone's pulling your leg mate.

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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by Simon Westgarth » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:23 am

For sure it's a near throw away term for a big topic about boat design. Plus paddling styles lend to the way boats and sometimes specific boats are paddled, yet the run out of hull from the paddler to the stern certain influences the way the paddle moves forward, equally as important is the way the boat initially flows through the water in front of the paddler centre of gravity. The feedback from the boat behind the paddler does back a part as to where the boat is going next, and perhaps this is a potential source as to the comment.

Reacting to odd features, like for example in the large Pyranha Shiva, where the widest part of the part is be hide the paddler, (known as the Swedish form). When boofing the Shiva whilst on edge, the additional "fat arse" on the boat would fight against the pulling stroke at the lip. Meaning the paddler was trying to create bow lift, and the volume on side wall of the stern just behind the paddler countered that bow lift, the outcome was often that the boof would look ok, and then the bow would pitch down as the stroke progressed.

Chris Bolton
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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by Chris Bolton » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:06 am

where the widest part of the part is be hide the paddler, (known as the Swedish form)
Purely to be pedantic, it's Swede form, after the shape of the vegetable, and nothing to do with Sweden or its citizens.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by Adrian Cooper » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am


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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:31 am

See "Hull Forms" here:
http://5-staryakpak.org/kayaking-101/choosing-a-kayak/

I would imagine that Swede form would lead to bad trim in WW.
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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by SimonMW » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:57 pm

I would imagine that Swede form would lead to bad trim in WW.
And bad indigestion if too much is eaten.

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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by Colin C » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:29 pm

Cheers ion and Simon, it sounds like whilst there may be some elements of design stuff going on its not necessarily driven by a concept, or firm view of building in "paddling from the back". So that helpfully clarifies that there is no interesting story associated with this, which is a pity as I was hoping for some weird explanation of why things are different.

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Re: Paddling from the Back

Post by Jim » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:18 pm

I understand it in context of C1 and OC1.

Paddling from the stern is using a trailing correction stroke to keep the boat going straight, the problem is that you either have to kneel up straighter compromising the catch, or move your body backwards and forwards which plays havoc with trim and causes the boat bob up and down.

Paddling from the bow involves keeping the weight well forward so the bow is well dug into the back of its own wave when you hit the catch reducing the amount it will swing away from the stroke, coupled with a short sharp correction when the blade gets somewhere between the knees and the hips, with the blade coming out no later than level with the hips. It allows you to achieve a strong "A" shape with the body so you can push down solidly in the catch, but requires a fairly high stroke rate to work properly. Because the body remains tilted forward all the time the boat doesn't bounce around as much as when paddling from the stern.

I am not aware of a US vs European difference, I think most contemporary C1s and OC1s work best paddled from the bow irrespective of the country of design. I was struggling to paddle an old Gyramax C1 using my normal C1 technique, someone told me it was from a time when boats were paddled fom the stern and with some adjustments to style I was able to paddle it a bit, but I didn't bother to master it because my other C1s need the bow paddling style.

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