Much needed Advice from BC

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C1pete
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Much needed Advice from BC

Post by C1pete » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:04 pm

Glad to see BC and British Rowing getting together to give useful advice that we would never have thought of ourselves in the Guidance for Rowers and Canoeists on Shared Water. "If there is a danger of a collision...If all else fails, shout "STOP" several times, very loudly." Thanks BC and BR, my go to would have been to try to communicate through the medium of modern dance. :'D

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morsey
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by morsey » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:23 pm

It's perfectly good advice.

C1pete
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by C1pete » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:33 pm

yep, you can't argue with the logic behind it. Made me chuckle.

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morsey
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by morsey » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:38 pm

Guidance for Rowers and Canoeists on shared water wrote:How to communicate with other types of boat – how to warn them of danger

If there is danger of a collision, it is essential that participants know how to warn the boats.

You may need to shout several times.

To warn rowers that there is a hazard ahead shout: “Look ahead” early and loud.

Refer to the type of boat i.e. sculler, pair (2 rowers), double (2 scullers). For example, “Look
ahead sculler”, “look ahead pair”.

If a collision is imminent and the rowing boat needs to be stopped, shout type of boat, hold it
hard, hold it up e.g. “Sculler hold it up, hold it hard”, “Four hold it up, hold it hard”.

If a rower needs to alert a canoeist, then it should be sufficient to alert the canoeist of the
presence of the rowing boat. Simply ask them to look in the appropriate direction, e.g. “Look
Astern”.

If all else fails, shout “STOP” several times, very loudly.

If a collision would otherwise be inevitable then both boats should reduce speed and steer
to avoid it.
Guidance for Rowers and Canoeists on shared water.pdf

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by twopigs » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:32 pm

morsey wrote:
Guidance for Rowers and Canoeists on shared water wrote:
To warn rowers that there is a hazard ahead shout: “Look ahead” early and loud.
Often abbreviated to "Head". As in "Head pair".
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Steve Agar » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:46 am

I'm sure the problem would be avoided if the rowers simply looked in the direction they were going, as the proposed warning is totally discriminatory against deaf or hearing-impaired participants.

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morsey
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by morsey » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:58 am

Face palm.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by feedbackproblem » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:34 am

Those rowers are absolutely the number 1 problem that canoeists have and I applaud BC in sorting it out. Social media is awash with stories of Steve Redgrave throwing rocks at kayakers and the number of times I've heard of that Matthew Pinsent chap slashing paddler's tyres beggars belief.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Steve Agar » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:36 am

Not to mention rowing boats hogging all the breakouts at Holme Pierrepont

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morsey
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by morsey » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:00 pm

Hands up any of you who actually paddle where rowers also paddle?

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morsey
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by morsey » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Image

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Steve Agar » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:43 pm

I do occasionally, but with a bit of lane discipline and common sense there doesn't seem to be a problem. Now getting rowing boats stuck when they drift over the weir - that's a different story.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by PaddyW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:04 pm

There are a lot of paddling clubs and groups that operate on the Tidal Thames. The area around Putney is particularly busy with rowing clubs and there are specific rowing lanes which are used depending on state of tide and whether going up or down stream. There are quite a few hazards/risks with paddling on the Tidal Thames.

https://www.boatingonthethames.co.uk/Paddling

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Adrian Cooper » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:08 pm

Yep, all the time, the rowing club is directly opposite on the other bank. They have been really bad with collisions in the past but not so many reports these days.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by davebrads » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm

morsey wrote:Hands up any of you who actually paddle where rowers also paddle?
I was hanging around the middle of the Thames at Shepperton weir when I heard someone shout "canoe". I took no notice until I heard it again - a bit closer - I looked round and there was an eight coming straight at me with their oars in the air. I back paddled frantically but failed to get far enough and got knocked in by one of the blades. Totally my fault, but I was dead chuffed when I rolled up - my first roll in anger so I had a big grin on my face while they were looking very concerned and asking if I was alright. Maybe if they'd written the advice 40 years ago the accident might have been avoided (not).
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by seawolf856 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:58 pm

Our club (DEVA CC) paddles on the river Dee in the middle of Chester where there are many types of river users - rowers are sometimes the least of our worries. We get large pleasure cruisers, yobs in hired motor boats, sailing dinghys, people throwing sticks in for their dogs, nutters jumping off bridges and even pedalos in the summer. The rowers are a constant hazard for many kilometres upstream of our club house but to be honest it is just part of the environment we paddle in and as kayakers, we are the most manoeuvrable craft and are able to get out of the way quicker and avoid "conflict".
Our new members are taught to look out for those who speed along not looking where they are going .... sorry rowers! and to keep into the side of the river when journeying. Shouting at somebody to STOP on our stretch of river is a complete waste of time and is likely to cause even greater conflict between river users.
The BC advice is well meant but it did make me chuckle when put into context of real life.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Jim » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:35 pm

I have paddled with rowers on both Castle Semple Loch (sea kayak fitness sessions at night in winter, just to make it even harder for them to see us), and on the Clyde from Glasgow Green upstream on a flat water WWR training session.
I didn't really like the Clyde even without rowers so probably won't be going back there, I can get as good a workout on Loch Lomond if I can dodge the ski boats and seaplane.

Our sprint section (which I have virtually nothing to do with unless they ask for help with an event) have just moved into a new base at the footy club by the canal which is in conjunction with a rowing club, I don't think the rowers have moved in yet, but by the summer the kids will be paddling with the row boats 6 days a week...

Chris Bolton
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Chris Bolton » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:08 pm

I found that when sharing a river with rowers, it's often best to follow the recommended advice for walking on a road with no footway; ie, close to the side, facing the oncoming traffic. Technically, the rule is that all boats should travel on the right, but then you have the rowers approaching from behind. If close to the bank on the left, you see them coming and can pull in close, avoiding trouble for all - except that sometimes, if they don't realise what you're doing, they shout at you for not following the rules.
PS - this is based on the Dee at Chester, other rivers may be different

twicezero
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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by twicezero » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Yeah, I've paddled on many stretches with rowers. Thames in loads of places: Chiswick, Oxford. Also on the Stour, the Wye, etc. Generally there's enough room for all, (as long as we follow the seemingly strange Thames rules regarding rowers work the slacks - as someone has already posted).

Its not bad advice - The shouting is what we have had recommended from ex-rowing paddlers.

Most rowers are lovely. The Cam rowers however, m'gods, the attitude.

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by TheEcho » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:55 pm

I've never had attitude from Cam rowers. Could it be because I am female and they aren't rude to ladies? Either that, or it is good karma because I helped a bunch of them out by righting their capsized boat for them once when paddling by.

But I must say I am surprised there aren't more rowing collisions, not just with paddlers, but with other rowers who have stopped dead in the water ahead of them, as they sometimes do when being coached. Could someone invent rear view mirrors for them?

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Re: Much needed Advice from BC

Post by Seedy Paddler » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:28 pm

Yes share the lower Dee with Rowers, generally winter training and next to harbour board water so we have the additional discipline of wearing lights... Doesn't help in seeing rowing blades in the dark though so keep a good separation.

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