The best boat in the WORLD!

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banzer
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The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by banzer »

So the best boat in the WORLD is this new one from Zet called the Raptor! It's winning all the extreme races. No, hang on, it's the Bliss Stick Tuna, no, hang on, the Waka Tuna now, everyone has one. Oh actually it must be the Lettman Granate, that's winning all the extreme races.

Come to think of it it's clearly the Pyranha 9R. Everyone has one now and it's amazing, so fast and turny and boofy, all at the same time. Oh wait a minute, not content with this, Pyranha have superseded it only a short time later with the Machno. Much better than everything else mentioned so far. By this reckoning, the Machno must be WAY better than a Raptor. Honestly, that old Raptor, what a piece of sh*t.

Every boater worth their salt has at least an old Burn, a Jefe / Stomper, and two or three of the above littering their backyard, all of a sudden just not any good anymore.

Don't they all look roughly the same? Isn't is 95% down to the pilot and 5% due to the boat? Wouldn't Sam Sutton paddling a Corsica best me in a 9R down the Wellerbrucke (answer - very definitely)?

My point being, aren't we all being hoodwinked by eager manufacturers and the inevitable endorsement of their sponsored boaters? Fair enough if you have broken a boat and need a new one, but are people really breaking boats every couple of years these days?

How about spending half the cost of a new boat on some skills coaching?

Thoughts? (Morsey? :-P )
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Neptune »

Banzer,

You clearly missed off the best boat in the WORLD EVER, the Nomad... is that enough comment?

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by banzer »

I only went back five years or so! Yes, the Nomad could run EVERYTHING! And all the kick-arse runs of Cali and Norway have all been styled in Saltos, M3s etc etc.....
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by SimonMW »

Don't get me started! Oh you already have!

Wait, the best boat is the Toro! I bought my Veloc thinking that it was the best boat in the world. Now I'm told that it can't boof, doesn't have enough rocker, and is slow.

To be fair, most of these new boats are all volume and a huge amount of rocker. So much so that I'm surprised the paddlers can see beyond the bow! Biggest problem I can see is that pretty much all of the new breed of boats are designed for pie eaters. I can probably paddle a Toro, but it is still a big boat for me. The 9R is huge for me, too. Gangsta, again, huge. Machno, yep, huge. Apparently lighter and smaller paddlers do not exist any more according to the release schedule of new boats from all the manufacturers.

Playboats and low volume are apparently now for kiddies and luddite club paddlers. These days everyone wants a big boat and They. Must. Get. Down. The. River. Fast!! Nothing must slow them down. Ever. It's now all laps, laps, laps. Gotta get the laps in! Training. Stamina. Training for what? I don't know! Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeme creeking!

Can't we just bring paddling back to pratting about, falling in the water a lot and laughing at each other?

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by DaveBland »

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, Initially I agree, Pretty much everything has been styled in every boat known to mankind. It's about the paddler's skills not the boat.
Boat design is fundamentally about the style of boat that best suits and balances the style of paddling you do and your own style of paddling. And yes there isa lot of marketing hype in every new boat's launch.

On t'other hand, that's being a bit unfair to manufacturers who genuinely put a crapload of effort and thinking into each design. And often they make major breakthroughs that step up the game in design.

So hard to tell which is right. Until you paddle a 9R and it's all suddenly clear. Unless you are a Jefe paddler.
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by dm1756 »

Ah c'mon, let the laps crew spend their money. The more they do the more investment from manufacturers and the better selection of good quality boats there will be when I eventually decide to replace mine. Lets not mention that the 9R is basically just a more angular RPM or the game will be up though.

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by MaverickvRS »

The best boat in the WORLD is the Perception Arc. No?

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by SimonMW »

It's fine. It's great they want to get fit. But all the new boats seem to be designed around this need for speed and huge rocker/volume combo. Kind of like sports cars being designed to get fast laps on the Nürburgring but not being great for the everyday driver on real roads. Let's face it, a lot of paddlers like to drift down the rivers. So this recent thing of all boats needing to be driven hard is not really in line with how I see the majority of people going down stream. And I say that as a person who likes to drive the boat rather than drift lazily.

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by DaveBland »

As a lazy drifter [I like to think of it as efficient bursts of speed interspersed with energy saver mode, but we all know I'm not fooling anyone] the trend for long fast boats is fab. It means you can accelerate and get out the crap in a moment's notice, having drifted far close to a feature.
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by gp.girl »

Small burn 3 definately not designed for pie eating paddlers! Perfect unless you like boat swapping and noone fits in yours....
I can roll :)

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by MaverickvRS »

gp.girl wrote:Small burn 3 definately not designed for pie eating paddlers! Perfect unless you like boat swapping and noone fits in yours....
I'm not a huge fan of boat swapping. My boat is my boat lol! It's taken me quite some time to get it set up so it's comfortable...

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by DaveBland »

Kinda get that, but doesn't paddling a shit load of diffo boats will make you a better paddler?
But yes, getting your outfitting just peachy-snug and then sharing it is like someone else borrowing ya socks. Thet're never the same after.
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by MaverickvRS »

I use club boats, on the odd occasion, but I'm not at expert level! I try to stay away from the Mirages....

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Jim »

Anyone remember the late 90's and early 00's when manufacturers were producing new playboats like it was a nuclear arms race?

I really ought to do a full comparison between my spud and my burn, got a feeling when the pros and cons are weighed up, the burn will lose...

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Neptune »

Jim,

Glad someone has finally named the spud, still got mine, there must be plenty of others out there and I saw quite a few being paddled in the Alps last June.

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by twopigs »

I thought the OP was being serious when he suggested that we should get some coaching rather than spend more money on a boat we can't paddle. SimonMW suggests that a lot of paddlers like to drift down the rivers .... so the nice new shiney boat is just for show??
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by purelandexpeditions.com »

Has a bad boat been designed in the last decade?
Sure the Ammo/Scud/Nano were niche, and many people disliked them - buy they had a place and a following - steep low volume - tick.
The pure is a little quirky but Jim Snyder uses one so it cannot be that bad?

So any real bad boat? AND by bad I say unusable? I really cannot think of a boat made over the last 10 years that I would rather not paddle and miss a day of getting wet.

I am ready to be shot down - because we all want a waka,9r, Granate blah blah.

D
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by gp.girl »

purelandexpeditions.com wrote:Has a bad boat been designed in the last decade?
Sure the Ammo/Scud/Nano were niche, and many people disliked them - buy they had a place and a following - steep low volume - tick.
The pure is a little quirky but Jim Snyder uses one so it cannot be that bad?

So any real bad boat? AND by bad I say unusable? I really cannot think of a boat made over the last 10 years that I would rather not paddle and miss a day of getting wet.

I am ready to be shot down - because we all want a waka,9r, Granate blah blah.

D
Not sure anything is that bad but it might just be totally unsuitable!

Paddling a 9R/Tuna/Granate when you only do Grade 2/3 is a bit pointless. Same as a playboat if you don't do freestyle.

Nano is great if you want to help a friend get stuck in a hole......
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Chalky723 »

gp.girl wrote: Not sure anything is that bad but it might just be totally unsuitable!

Paddling a 9R/Tuna/Granate when you only do Grade 2/3 is a bit pointless. Same as a playboat if you don't do freestyle.

Nano is great if you want to help a friend get stuck in a hole......
I used my Tuna on G1/2/3 - I didn't just save it for 4/5!!

I know plenty of people that paddle Playboats on allsorts who would have a cat in hells chance of doing any freestyle.....

D
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by gp.girl »

Chalky723 wrote:
gp.girl wrote: Not sure anything is that bad but it might just be totally unsuitable!

Paddling a 9R/Tuna/Granate when you only do Grade 2/3 is a bit pointless. Same as a playboat if you don't do freestyle.

Nano is great if you want to help a friend get stuck in a hole......
I used my Tuna on G1/2/3 - I didn't just save it for 4/5!!

I know plenty of people that paddle Playboats on allsorts who would have a cat in hells chance of doing any freestyle.....

D
You take it 4/5 though :) that comes under 'I'll try it if its a short section and stuff that for a laugh'. If you didn't it would be different even the burn is bigger than I need for most stuff I paddle! What do you do with a playboat if it's not tricks and get someone else to carry all the kit.
I can roll :)

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Chalky723 »

Some mates paddle their playboats down rivers that I would only tackle in the Tuna because they're bored of doing it in an "easy" (to them) boat.

That's why a lot of lower volume boats are coming along now - we'be done huge, now people want stuff that's fun to paddle on the grades they're most likely to paddle, rather than the rivers in the adverts!!

D
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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by morsey »

banzer wrote:How about spending half the cost of a new boat on some skills coaching?

Thoughts? (Morsey? :-P )
Yes and when you then get good, get a 9R and get fast. Or get a Machno and get rad (I think I'd swap from 9R just for the Machno reggae colour scheme, but then I'd need to keep the 9R polished up for time trials...)

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by SPL »

best boat in the world.....so many to choose from depending on your style, your weight and height, the rivers you paddle.
The best boat in the world is probably sat in your garage.

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by gp.girl »

SPL wrote:best boat in the world.....so many to choose from depending on your style, your weight and height, the rivers you paddle.
The best boat in the world is probably sat in your garage.
Hubby will be happy :) the best boat in the world is a pink camo apache tribe!
I can roll :)

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by LucyLou19 »

Is the one that fits?

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by C1pete »

The best boat in the world is the Loki because it is hillarious. You can't help but grin like an idiot whilst you tail squirt your way down stuff.

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Jim »

I suspect it will be kind of contentious here, but my fave boat at the moment is my iScream, light, stable, forgiving, maybe not the abosolute fastest but I need the latter 2 elements more than speed at the moment. I still fall in quite often, but you want to see the mistakes it lets me get away with!

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by morsey »

The question about whether new boats are better? Absolutely yes. There is no doubt about it. When you can see the development of the boats, when you know the amount of time that has gone into multiple proto's to tweak and improve on previous designs, you know you are getting a finer craft.

The increments of change from one boat to the next are the substantial? From old nomad to new nomad, yes. From Shiva to 9R, yes. From 9R to Machno? Well they are both awesome boats and both carry the new thinking, but in different ways. Pyranha just didn't sit on the one creeker marketing instead they have two, well four with the different sizes, or five if the new lil Machno is now ready. And Dagger expanding their size range with the Newmad. Raptor is a good boat, it's dated. And it's dated by the tweaks the other boats have had to make control, tracking, flaring/boofing more within the control of the paddler (rather than requiring world class paddle skills!), and the Toro fits in nicely as a size up as well! Obvs, Tuna's and Gangsters come into the mix and a few other boats. One boat is never going to tick every box for everyone, good job there are plenty of swanky boats out there to choose from :D

Personally I'd go with the new boats, but there is definitely a lot to be said for honing your skill and getting that elevated with quality coaching as that is also a way to make big improvements.


BTW Laps crews are all about hitting lots of laps to get better, get more precise on take offs, hit tighter moves, get more rad with the throw downs... Laps crews are all about development, and the hollars, and the good times, and the beat downs, lols. #FastIsFun

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by gp.girl »

LucyLou19 wrote:Is the one that fits?
C1pete wrote:The best boat in the world is the Loki because it is hillarious. You can't help but grin like an idiot whilst you tail squirt your way down stuff.
Jim wrote:I suspect it will be kind of contentious here, but my fave boat at the moment is my iScream, light, stable, forgiving, maybe not the abosolute fastest but I need the latter 2 elements more than speed at the moment. I still fall in quite often, but you want to see the mistakes it lets me get away with!
So the one that works for you.

Unless the Loki is very different to an Axiom I'd just fall over repeatedly while getting more and more nervous and unhappy :( but its obvious lots of paddlers love that sort of thing!
I can roll :)

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Re: The best boat in the WORLD!

Post by Conor Buckboy »

A short trip to YouTube will show people running class 4 with wooden paddles in perception dancers and magicbats, wearing what looks like a boiled sweet for a helmet. I find it fascinating that kayaking is so expensive for equipment that does the same job as something that can cost you 1/3 of the price still brand new. Yes it's lighter and stiffer blah blah. Or maybe it's got comfier outfitting. It's a paddle. It's a boat. As a student why should I spend near £900 on a machno when I could literally get a magicbat or similar for £90.

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