What paddle again - only splits this time!

[Steve Agar]

Any recommendations (or hates) for split paddles for white water/playboating use? Main reason is for ease of travel but use as a primary paddle rather than as a spare. Currently paddling with Werner Sherpa carbon.

[SimonMW]

VE four piece splits? Or the two piece ones.

[DaveBland]

Well you know what brand I am going to say...

Regarding 4 or two piece, I prefer 2. Here's my thinking:

1. It's not often you use splits if you are carrying them as spares. But if you do lose your paddles from a swim or break, chances are you are pushing it a bit and having a set of spares as good as your main ones will give you the confidence you need. The last thing you want is rickety old set when already swam...
2. I've seen so many sets of 4 pieces left in boats and spent 20 mins trying to get them together and rinse all the grit out etc with cold hands. If you can get a 2 piece in your boat, then it's way better.
3. The VE 2 pieces are totally adjustable – meaning anyone can use them, any L or R feather. This is great if you are sharing a few sets between a bigger group.
4. Good 2 pieces are as good as a one piece. This means that you will get more use out of them as you'll be happy to use them as your main set if travelling or hiking in etc.
5. Most creek boats will fit 2 pieces in easy these days, so why go with 4?

[SPL]

Cut your current blades in half and fit a joint. Job done at minimal costs with blades you like!

[Steve Agar]

That's proper lateral thinking - I like it!

[Chris Bolton]

For my sea kayak, I have two sets of 4 piece splits, identical except the blade material. The brand isn't important as they aren't river paddles, but it's the concept of identical sets that matters. I paddle with the light, sharp, carbon blades, and keep the tougher nylon ones as spares. If I've broken the normal blades, it's important I don't break the spares. The point of having identical sets is that provided I have at least one left blade, one right blade and two shaft sections I can make a usable paddle, irrespective of which the parts originally belonged to.

[Jim]

I use Lendal Paddlok 4-piece splits for spares and for travel paddles, unfortunately I am not completely convinced that Celtic are building them as well as Lendal used to so I am a little bit hesitant to recommend them now. That said I bought a couple of carbon composite kinetic Xti blades a few weeks ago and used them on one of my existing lendal shafts to run the grand canyon, 14 days, around 220 miles (I spent a couple of half days on rafts) and lots attempts to wavewheel and kickflip and none of the parts moved once all trip. Its just that with the cloth on show through clear gel, they don't seem to pay the same care to ensure that the cloth is spread out evenly.
My spare paddle for that trip had an identical shaft with carbon composite mystik blades, I have used them for river running a lot (until I broke my 1-piece in Corsica last year), a little less powerful than the kinetics but I can swap between them without noticing.

I also have a 1-piece carbon composite kinetic, but I've ordered it on a modified crank shaft instead of double torque, Alistair would never have let me do that for a river paddle (i.e. ~<200cm) because the amount space needed between the crank and the blade is such that the grip spacing ends up really narrow, it is great for 215cm sea paddles though. Swapping between that and my Galasport slalom paddle (which has a slightly wide grip) is a nightmare, so those might go up for sale at some point, if I can find someone with narrow shoulders who can use them comfortably.

[MikeVeal]

I bought a 2nd hand pair of Carbon Werners, took a hacksaw to them and added Lendal's padlok system. The shaft is cut so that I can get 0 to 45 degree RH or a fixed 30 degree LH.

I thoroughly recommend the padlok. Yes you need a tool, but once done up you would not know that you're paddling with splits, the joint is rock solid. One blade fell off my main set last year and I've been using the splits ever since.

It's easy to turn Werners into a 2 piece, but you can't do 4 piece, both shafts are oval near the blades. One tip, if you're doing this, you don't care what original feather the blades have. LH, RH or zero will do, you'll set your own feather when you make the splits. Second hand LH paddles are cheaper than RH...

[TwoHats]

I've been using a pair of VE 2 piece splits for a couple of years now as my main paddle.
I couldn't recommend highly enough. Still fit inside my boat to use as emergency back up if needed too.
totally adjustable as to feather and also something like 10cm flexibility with length. The locking system they use is bombproof too and unlike the push button fitting on Werner splits there is absolutely not even the slightest bit of movement in them.

[Steve Agar]

A solid recommendation, then! Thanks

[RJRM]

I'm very lucky to find this topic at the moment as it's almost bespoke for my current conundrum.

I'm looking to buy my first WW paddle and have leaned towards a VE with a straight shaft. I don't have the opportunity to try out gear where I live so it's all about lots of internet research to make the best guesses possible. So, I had thought the best bet was 200cm with 30 deg feather, straight shaft.

So, I could be wrong on length and feather and in the end want a cranked shaft. Therefore, I contemplated getting a split to allow me to adjust the length and the feather and to give myself a spare when I get the next paddle.

My question is, with a 200cm split (110 cm max length per section), does anyone know if I'll be able to fit it into the stern of a Dagger Mamba 8.6?

Bonus question: any idea how close the VE red matches Dagger red or how close the VE yellow matches Kokatat yellow? Might as well ask, I suppose!

Again, shocked at how relevant this thread is given my thought process to date.

Many thanks.

[feedbackproblem]

I've a pair of 196cm cranked VE splits which fit in the back of my medium Burn 3 but it's a pretty snug fit and they only go in one way. There's a couple of things to be aware of:
1 - although the "split" is in the middle of the shaft there is an overlapping section which means that one piece is longer than the other so you're probably looking at one 100cm piece and a 110-112cm piece.
2 - as far as I'm aware the VE splits are only extendable on the sea kayak paddles not on the WW paddles. Judging by my paddle you might be able to get 1cm or maybe 2 cm at a pinch if you were really desperate but any more than that and you'd risk breaking the joint.

I've bought a couple of paddles from VE and always found them really helpful so it's probably worth dropping them a line and asking for their advice.

[purelandexpeditions.com]

Im a 4 way werner or 2 way varilock man - love it
DAZ

[morsey]

Have four piece Lendals
Had one issue with them years ago
Been fine since
Used them yesterday, being four piece they pack into a day rucsac to take on a train.
Put the blades in the wrong ends which sets the blade angle wrong so used them back to front and looked like a beginner haha
The padlock system on them is why I got them it's excellent. Varilock is also neat.

[wild river]

Hi RJRM
I paddle a mamba 8.6 and use VE paddles. We have several sets of split VEs for customers to use. I have tried to fit 2 piece splits into the back and found they dont. So I use the VE 4 piece split as a spare. It is great.
If you are not sure about size and feather then getting a 2 piece VE split is a great option. If you send me an email with your hieght and weight I can have a guess at what paddle length you should have. However without watching you in a boat I cant be that accurate.
If you are up in the Lakes you are welcome to borrow an adjustable VE with either the small or big blade to get the sizing right
We also have one on a thin shaft for folk with smaller hands
Sean

[RJRM]

Sean,
Thanks for that. I'm sorted now with Stu from VE and have a 190-200 set of splits coming. I'm looking forward to experimenting with them. If I'm down to the Lakes, I'll get in touch.

[Garry]

When my trusty Robson Oracles snapped in half (something to do with hitting a rock whilst I was upside down on a river in France:-( ) I took the opportunity to turn them into 3-way splits. A nice compromise between 2 and 4 way leaving you with a short section of shaft attached to each blade and a single central blade section. It all fits easily inside a river boat, and even in a play boat at a push, and with two spigots bought of the internet and a spare section of shaft from another old set of blades, cost about £15 and an hour or so of careful cutting and sticking. With a few wraps of gaffer tape around the middle section of shaft ready for future use, it is easy to assemble on the river when needed and then wrap the two joints with the tape to make sure they are both firm. Result is a quality paddle that matches the one I normally paddle with, but that effectively lives in the back of my river boat (fitted in a cut away section in the rear foam pillar and held in with elastic straps) ready for action if needed. Might not suit all, and is generally easier to achieve on straight shaft than cranked, but worth thinking about if you already have access to decent blades.

[Steve Agar]

Another good idea - thanks.

[RJRM]

My VE split arrived. The tolerances are such that I have to put it together slowly to allow air to escape between the two sections. Excellent.