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Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:41 pm
by stonercanoe
I help run and coach a new, small club in Wales. We are lucky enough to be able to run evening coaching sessions at the Yat.
As I understand it some how the rapids are owned by British Canoeing ( I think I donated money to help buy the rapids).
I know the car park and launching steps are owned privately.
As a volunteer coach, when coaching for the club, I resent paying to park and to launch. Am I being tight?
Should not our governing body negotiate, maybe by paying a yearly fee to the car park owner, an agreement so that affiliated clubs running club events don't have to pay?
I give my time, so do other club coaches, why should we be out of pocket? The club is not in a position financially to reimburse the coaches and I would not want to take money out of the club.
I am not being critical of the car park owners, lets get some help from out governing bodies.
What are your thoughts? Am I just tight?
Jason

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:02 am
by Dave Manby
If you went to a town car park you have to pay - jut because you are in the country doesn't mean it should be free.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:26 am
by Chalky723
Sorry, you're being tight.

C

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:50 am
by Chris Bolton
BC get money from two places - members subscriptions, and grants for high level competition which must not be spent on anything else. You're asking the rest of the BC/CW membership to subsidise your club. If you think the time and effort you give the club justifies you getting free parking, ask the club to pay - the club members are the ones benefiting and if the club has no money, they would need to contribute more.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:04 am
by MikeVeal
Agree. You're being tight.
Canoe BCU England shouldn't pay your parking. Or your petrol to get there. Or wear and tear on your personal kit*.

If you feel that the costs are too onerous, then maybe your students / club should stump up. Perhaps your club could do a deal with one of the land owners (or the Forrestry Commission at the Biblins - with the added benefit of a warm up paddle) for a reduced parking rate.



* Yeah I'm playing devils advocate. Of course you're not asking for any of those things. But as costs that volunteers bear, how are these any different from parking costs?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:28 pm
by Jim
Another problem with your idea, is that your club no doubt uses the rapids most on summer evenings, when the car park would normally be most busy, so if there were some kind of annual agreement (even if just directly with your club), the car park owner would still have to psychologically deal with seeing the car park full of cars that don't need to pay when they have paying customers queueing to get in, and then the car park being empty all through winter when there are no customers either....

The village has very little parking at all, I would think it will always be a problem there.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:20 pm
by Alec
You're being very tight. How many free private car parks do you know of these days?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:33 pm
by Mike79
One more for the chorus - you are being tight.

I actually think pay car parks are quite a good model for landowners or councils to benefit from paddlers and encourage access to rivers.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:34 pm
by SPL
....than a camels arse in a sandstorm

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:41 pm
by stonercanoe
Ok, ok, ok ok. One thing, I didn't mean an agreement for just my club, all affiliated clubs.
I agree with Mike that car park generated income is good for landowners and is a way of facilitating access to the countryside in general.
Where do elite athletes come from? Learning to paddle at places like the Yat. If BC subsidized clubs, maybe they would have more elite athletes, and therefore more funding. Win win for everyone!
I know, I am being tight.
Jason

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:15 pm
by Alec
How do you propose paddlers from affiliated clubs prove they're entitled to "free" parking?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:57 pm
by stonercanoe
Show their BC, SCA, CW membership cards, easy!

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:08 pm
by Alec
So you're talking about individual members of BC not members of affiliated clubs.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:14 pm
by stonercanoe
I don't know about England, but all members of clubs in Wales are either individual members of the GB or affiliated members. All club members can have a membership card.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:37 pm
by Adrian Cooper
Affiliated members do not get cards.

So, if I never use the Yat, I would be subsidising your paddling/parking. What would I get out of it? Maybe free parking at the Tryweryn?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:01 pm
by stonercanoe
That would be good wouldn't it!
In England affiliated members don't get cards?
You get more people paddling, more Olympic champions, more funding for all!
Jas

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:04 pm
by twopigs
You never know it might be cheaper to park and access the river higher up - Symonds Yat East for example .... more of a warm up paddle and a warm down paddle - and if you used Symonds Yat East you'd not use so much fuel.....

If you resent your contribution because it costs you - stop giving - maybe car share?

Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:05 pm
by Alec
Can't believe the WCA spend time and money sending cards to all members of all canoe clubs. Have they got money to burn?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:25 pm
by stonercanoe
They issue blank cards, club secretary fills them out on payment of subs, costs CW virtually nothing. Easy!
Awkward to car share as in the evening we are all rushing from different places after work (lame excuse)!
For some of the under 10's that little extra paddle when they are starting out could be too much? Get me fitter though!

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:41 pm
by Chris Bolton
If BC subsidized clubs...
But they'd need money to do that, which they'd have to get from the membership, thereby putting up subs and losing members, but not actually changing how much people have to pay overall. BC need to do the opposite, cut their subs so that they can get more members and become a representative body for what paddlers want.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:49 pm
by Adrian Cooper
When I paddle on the Thames perhaps BC could pay my parking in Marlow, It's a bit expensive when I go each week and I usually help people with some coaching. Maybe they could pay for me at Mile End Mill or Bala car park, perhaps they could feed my meter on the Embankment, is there no end to their potential largess?

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:54 pm
by stonercanoe
Ok I am being tight. I give up!
Jas

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:42 pm
by Adrian Cooper
............ :-)

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:34 pm
by Jim
I'm all for free parking, but there is no equitable way to do it - I think there have been enough examples now!

As for BC subsidising clubs, if BC subsidise anything, it is at the deficit of something else, so if clubs get subsidised, ordinary members who aren't in clubs will start making a fuss about why their membership money (which is a lot more than the affiliated member capitation a club pays) is going to benefit affiliated members and not them....

Obviously WCA has a degree of autonomy, but I just learned 10 minutes before reading this thread, that BC affiliated clubs with a registered junior section, are sent a bunch of affilate membership cards to give to their junior members because they are exempted from paying day memberships for certain events, where senior affiliated club members do have to take out a BC day membership. Affiliated clubs without a registered junior section don't get any cards. I think I read that SCA don't have affiliated membership cards for anyone. What a tangled web......

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:24 pm
by Adrian Cooper
Indeed, Jim. BC like to consult with the clubs about 'stuff' but they have decided that they will only consult with 'Clubmark' or Topclub' clubs (each having a junior section. Other clubs, such as ours, are not consulted, almost as if our contribution is worthless. You'd think they would value what we have to offer.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:46 pm
by DaveBland
Maybe a bit tight, but I think you do have a point.
If it was me being coached for free and saw the instructor was paying for parking, I'd probably chip in or something. More likely buy him a beer after as a thank you.

I think it depends on why you do it though? I organize our local polo and often end up buying a roll of Gorilla tape or something to sort stuff out. It kinda goes with the territory. My wife volunteer instructsat the local community gym. She ends up paying for her music CDs to keep the classes fresh. If you thin of the 'volunteering' as a hobby that you enjoy, not a job you are not getting paid for, then the small price tag is for you to do your hobby.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:59 pm
by stonercanoe
Dave we all do it to put something back into an amazing hobby/sport that has given us so much.
The whinge about the parking wasn't that serious!
Need some rain to get out properly.
Jas

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:57 am
by morsey
Adrian Cooper wrote:When I paddle on the Thames
Not just solely aimed at Adrian, generic questions: When you paddle somewhere like the Tryweryn, you are happy to pay parking fee? Are you happy to pay an access fee on top of that? The parking fee is not an issue at Symonds Yat, but that's not the only fee requested.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:05 pm
by MikeVeal
If we're talking about the campsite, the access fee is a fee to use their private steps (and slide weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee). If you want to get on the river at their privately owned bank I don't think it's unfair. If you don't like it, carry down the rapids and put on there. And yeah, I do know that the Wye Navigation order allows free access to the banks, its about give and take. Parking is at a premium, the steps are convenient, make for a short carry and must have been expensive. Quite happy to support the locals when they're not taking the mick.

Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:02 pm
by PaddyW
morsey wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:When I paddle on the Thames
Not just solely aimed at Adrian, generic questions: When you paddle somewhere like the Tryweryn, you are happy to pay parking fee? Are you happy to pay an access fee on top of that? The parking fee is not an issue at Symonds Yat, but that's not the only fee requested.
Happy to pay parking at Tryweryn. Last time I went that was the only fee.

Happy to pay parking at SY and launch fee.

Not happy to pay £17 to paddle at CIWW. Great facility but poor pricing/management. If you only visit once or twice a year you had to fill out three forms every time you visited. Everyone asked for membership to stop the ludicrous form filling. So they wopped on a £5 charge for membership which is compulsory and needs to be renewed each year. So if you now visit once or twice a year you still have to fill out lots of forms, pay an additional £5 on top and £17 is too much. I can easily afford it but I don't consider it a fair price.