Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

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Franky
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by Franky » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:36 pm

PaddyW wrote: Happy to pay parking at Tryweryn. Last time I went that was the only fee.

Happy to pay parking at SY and launch fee.

Not happy to pay £17 to paddle at CIWW. Great facility but poor pricing/management. If you only visit once or twice a year you had to fill out three forms every time you visited. Everyone asked for membership to stop the ludicrous form filling. So they wopped on a £5 charge for membership which is compulsory and needs to be renewed each year. So if you now visit once or twice a year you still have to fill out lots of forms, pay an additional £5 on top and £17 is too much. I can easily afford it but I don't consider it a fair price.
If you can "easily afford it", I don't see how you could consider £17 an unfair price. At Lee Valley, an hour on the Olympic and an hour on the Legacy will together cost you £16, one pound less than a full day at CIWW. I've heard/read lots of complaints about Lee Valley, but never that it's too expensive.

White water courses have to pay for themselves and if they don't, they close. I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if most of them would break even if it weren't for subsidies - and it's obvious how precarious subsidies are at the current time.

As for the form-filling... Other posters have been praising CIWW because all you have to do is fill in a form, rather than take an assessment like at Lee Valley. There's no pleasing some people!

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:16 pm

In fact, the £5 is a once per year fee, the actual cost after that is £12 a day - not bad value for money TBH.

How long would you get in any other sporting facility for £12??

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by PaddyW » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:30 pm

Franky wrote:
PaddyW wrote: Happy to pay parking at Tryweryn. Last time I went that was the only fee.

Happy to pay parking at SY and launch fee.

Not happy to pay £17 to paddle at CIWW. Great facility but poor pricing/management. If you only visit once or twice a year you had to fill out three forms every time you visited. Everyone asked for membership to stop the ludicrous form filling. So they wopped on a £5 charge for membership which is compulsory and needs to be renewed each year. So if you now visit once or twice a year you still have to fill out lots of forms, pay an additional £5 on top and £17 is too much. I can easily afford it but I don't consider it a fair price.
If you can "easily afford it", I don't see how you could consider £17 an unfair price. At Lee Valley, an hour on the Olympic and an hour on the Legacy will together cost you £16, one pound less than a full day at CIWW. I've heard/read lots of complaints about Lee Valley, but never that it's too expensive.

White water courses have to pay for themselves and if they don't, they close. I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if most of them would break even if it weren't for subsidies - and it's obvious how precarious subsidies are at the current time.

As for the form-filling... Other posters have been praising CIWW because all you have to do is fill in a form, rather than take an assessment like at Lee Valley. There's no pleasing some people!
I forgot to mention:

Happy to pay facilities fee at Tryweryn. Great centre, paths, roads, parking, cafe, showers, toilets, access points etc.

Happy to do assessments if required.

Happy to pay BC membership. Well worth the price - third party insurance, Magazine, Discounts at Cotswolds, coaching quals, ability to compete in BC events, etc. :-)

Not Happy - Form filling at CIWW:-

1) Initial system - complete three forms every time. Waste of everyone's time and duplication and admin costs to CIWW
2) Current system - Complete three forms and pay £5 every year. This makes it excessively expensive for occasional visitors.
3) Better and fairer system - Complete forms once on initial visit and pay smaller admin charge. Get a photo card to prevent people loaning card to others. This would not discourage occasional visitors and would reduce the admin, and associated costs, considerably.
Last edited by PaddyW on Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by buck197 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:47 pm

Why is £17 being expensive for a days paddling at CIWW? Guaranteed water, changing facilities, safety set up on bank, cafe and the lovely Ronnie onsite. Compare the £17 to a round of golf, a few hours at the cinema, a football match etc. To me seems a reasonable price for a full days entertainment.
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by DaveBland » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:41 pm

It's interesting reading this from afar.
I think there's confusion over two arguments here. First one – under 20 quid for a day's use of a great facility to paddle on when there's no water – utter bargain!
Secondly the form-filling and admin side of it. There's never an excuse to fill out a bunch of details more than once these days. With the technology available, there should be a simple way of doing this. To be honest I'm amazed it's not run like a 'gym' where you have a regular commitment for locals and a drop in fee for 'occasionals' with packs of say 4 sessions buyable at a discount etc. It's a funding model that has proved to work over and over.

But either way, 17 quid for a day out... how can anyone complain about that? I remember back in the 80s I'm sure the T used to be 20 quid for the day when they charged.
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by PaddyW » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:26 pm

When CIWW opened it cost £10 for the day, (+filling 3 forms each time)

The price has since gone up to £12 for the day (+filling 3 forms each time)

Now you have to pay £5 to fill in 3 forms and £12 for the day.

It is a great facility but the management need to sort out the admin!!!

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Thread drift - CIWW

Post by Jim » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:42 pm

Can't you take a blank copy of the forms away, fill in the bits that never change (i.e. not the date) and then make loads of photocopies so all you have to do is date a set each time you visit and hand them in?

£17 for a full day on the water? I'd skip the pub for that, how many pints would that cover in Cardiff these days?
Come to think of it I spend £17 to spend around 15 minutes* on the water over a whole weekend and it seems like a good deal to me....

*I'm exaggerating, I normally get at least 30 minutes on the water for that.

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:56 pm

It's the same for the Nene, so I've saved the form as a PDF with all my details on it & just add the date once a year.

It's hardly a chore.

And as for bleating over £17 - I probably scrape that much value off my boat every time I seal launch down the steps at LV.....

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by PaddyW » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:37 pm

[quote="Chalky723"
Chalky723 wrote:
And as for bleating over £17
C
My "bleating" is about having to pay £5 for the privilege of having to fill out three forms. This is may not be excessively onerous but it is unnecessary as they already have my details stored.

You are correct that £17 is not a huge amount. I have paid £40 for an hour at Surf Snowdonia and it was worth it.

I will not pay £5 to fill out three forms unnecessarily. My choice!

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by PaddyW » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:39 pm

PaddyW wrote:[quote="Chalky723"
Chalky723 wrote:
And as for bleating over £17
C
My "bleating" is about having to pay £5 for the privilege of having to fill out three forms. This is may not be excessively onerous but it is unnecessary as they already have my details stored.

You are correct that £17 is not a huge amount. I have paid £45 for an hour at Surf Snowdonia and it was worth it.

I will not pay £5 to fill out three forms unnecessarily. My choice!

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by scottdog007 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:51 pm

What is the story on access there at Symonds Yat. Was there not long ago and got told I needed to pay £1.50 fee to the shop there. Stupidly I went in and asked and they took the money from me, they didn't till it up or give a receipt, just threw it in to a draw.

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:36 pm

PaddyW wrote: I will not pay £5 to fill out three forms unnecessarily. My choice!
I'm sure that'll learn 'em!

Silly question - have you actually communicated this to them or just stopped going? If it's the latter, they won't even have noticed...

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by DaveBland » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:19 am

As is the way with t'internet, poor paddy is getting an undue amount of flak.
Whilst we all pretty much have agreed the Cardiff fee is ok, he is seemingly right that it's a goofed up system that sounds like it needs sorting. Sure you ca get blank forms and pre-fill them and scan/photocopy them etc, but really? Shouldn't even be close to being an issue.
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by chriscw » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:59 pm

Yes I am afraid that you are. land is not free and flat bits with planning permission for parking close to Symonds Yat are pretty scarce. We have free use of all rivers so paying to use car parks provided is a really good way to earn our welcome. Also to be hones the fees at Wyedean are pretty reasonable.
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by SimonMW » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:28 am

I'm not so sure, Chris. They have a monopoly on the parking there. One poster on these forums had major issues once. They parked in the car park (and paid for it) and then did the Kerne Bridge run, finishing (and this bit is important) at the bottom of the rapids. They egressed there and walked their boats back up the path to the car park, where they were met with the owners demanding that they paid a landing fee! Now I could understand that if they had got out at the car park, but the Howells do not own the rapids, nor do they own the land alongside it. That is Forestry Commission land. So they had no right to demand a landing fee. It went so far as them closing the gate until they had paid!

The parking fee there is too expensive depending on what you are doing. It might seem reasonable if you are spending the whole day there. But if you only intend for a quick blast for an hour or two on a regular basis, it soon adds up when the launch fees are considered on top.

I should clarify my statements however. The landowner is well within his rights to charge for parking, and I do not mind the launch fee either (as long as he realises that he cannot charge an egress fee from the bottom of the rapids!) since apparently the money from launch fees goes into the rapids maintenance fund. That is all well and good.

But my issues with the parking fees stem from the inflexibility of it all. Plus quite often the parking machine is out of order, especially during heavy rain. Not only that but it rarely ever takes the full money that you put in, spitting out a ticket before you have put the full amount needed into it. There have been occasions where it has spat out a ticket leaving me with odd change, and it won't give you a ticket unless you put at least the minimum amount in. So you can't for instance get the main ticket then put £1.50 in for a launch fee separately since it won't print a ticket off for that amount. When it is out of order during winter months when the shop isn't open, you are left there wondering if you will be clobbered by a parking fine, since you can't get a ticket from the machine, the shop isn't open to be able to pay them there instead, and if you park at any of the other carparks you will come in for even more grief off the landowner!

That said, his sons are very reasonable and good guys. But the system does need thinking out some more with regard to flexibility, and as to what people do when the shop is closed and the machine is not working (which happens a lot).

An alternative is to park up at the Ferry Inn. Just park up, and go into the pub to pay the parking fee. It's a longer paddle back up the river after playing on the rapids, but can work out more reasonably.

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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by stonercanoe » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:22 am

Wow, never thought this topic would run like this.
Pay for parking. I guess the hand ferry ramp is a public right of way to the river, launch there for free?
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Re: Symonds Yat, am I being tight?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:05 pm

LOL reminds me of this guy from the Carry-On films:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 39926f.jpg
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