Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

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Simongelder
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Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:25 pm

I will hopefully have the opportunity soon to get a new boat for surf and local river play. I have been using a Necky Jive in recent years and feel it is time to move out of the 90s into something more modern and better performing. In terms of big water I am mainly surfing and have just booked another holiday in Finisterre, France for this summer. After two weeks of challenging surf last summer I was starting to find the Jive a bit dull. I have fondly remembered the times when I used to surf my ProJet squirt boat on the sea which was mega fast and responsive. I still have this boat but don't have the time to re acquire the fitness and technique needed to enjoy it any more.

I will need to sell on the Jive to keep Mrs G happy. Because I still enjoy blasting about at Mile End Mill and Chester Weir I don't want a specialist surf kayak. The Axiom 8.5 seems an obvious sensible choice but I am tempted by the Pyranha Loki which will be more fun on the rivers. I am worried though that the Loki may be useless on proper sea surf. The Loki is longer than many current park and play boats so should be better in surf. The Loki looks like it will be great fun on the weir which is only 5 mins from home. The Axiom won't really offer anything locally that the Jive can't do and would tip the balance in favour of doing a session in a K1 on the river rather than having fun.

Sorry for the meandering ditherings written here. Getting both boats would sort the dilemma but that isn't an option. Opinions of the all round suitability of the Loki including on surf would be very welcome.

Thanks!

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by davebrads » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:30 pm

I am pretty sure that the Loki will be an excellent surf boat, easily the equal of the Axiom if not better in the surf. I've only tried it on the river but I loved it. My Prozone was a great surf boat, though I've moved on to a composite surf kayak now, and I think the Loki is the closest modern boat to the Prozone.
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Yew » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:17 pm

An I3 and an rpm for the same money :D


More seriously, the loki looks loads of fun, with the possibillity for ends and cartwheels. But I had a lot of fun in an axiom on trent lock ove rthe new year too


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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by GlennT » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:48 pm

I would suggest the I3, probably one of the best plastic river boats in the surf, as well as on the river. The loki is clearly derived from the earlier i3; I used to surf one before i moved to composite surf=specific kayaks.

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by kayak1 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:37 pm

The Loki looks great and seems to be what you are looking for..the Axiom being more river runner with good ocean surfing abilities,
the loki may be a bit slow in comparison as it has a large amount of rocker, particularly in the back end..and a little less deck height, which may take some getting used too.. but is still going to be more of a fun boat to progress in..All older boats like that of the generation you are currently using, do well in the ocean surf due to the length and lack of rocker..and similar to the boats already been mentioned, anything Necky..and Riot, Pyranha etc. although the Loki looks quite like the old Wavesport Ace? which wasn't much use in the surf really..But I could name more older boats that could do really well in Rivers and Sea surfing, than I could new boats...its always a compromise!

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:00 am

Thanks for the replies. Had a sit in a Loki and a Z.one today at Kayaks NW. Foot space in the Loki seemed tight but the overall boat seems very like a comfortable, modern take on my old ProJet squirt boat. Very nice boat and would definitely be a lot of fun.

Struggling to convince myself that an axiom or a z.one will give much extra on the surf or for river running than my current Necky Jive 8.10. Went home and moved the seat back a couple on notches on the Jive to raise the nose a little. One of my niggles had been that the nose is a bit low and can catch you out on steep drop ins. A quick blast at the end of the afternoon confirmed that the Jive is still a great boat and the tweeks make it a bit better still. Hmm.

I also had a sit in a Jed whilst in the showroom. I am now wondering whether it would be better to keep the jive for surf and river running and take a different tack entirely by getting a modern playboat for blasting on the weir and Mile End Mill. Could probably get a decent second hand short playboat for £300 and keep the jive rather than trying to have a one boat compromise for all white water requirements.

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:04 am

Just been looking at pics of the i3 on Google. Not heard of it before. Definitely looks worth keeping an eye out for on ebay. Very similar looking to the Loki.

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by davebrads » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:05 am

Simongelder wrote:Struggling to convince myself that an axiom or a z.one will give much extra on the surf or for river running than my current Necky Jive 8.10.
I agree. I'm not convinced that the I3 is the answer either, and I love the I3, I only bought one a few months ago having lost my original one after a big swim. In my opinion it is a better boat than the Jive, it is sharper handling (though that means it will trip you up more, at least until you get to grips with it) and the volume is more balanced which means that it will do more on waves. However it still has quite a lot of volume so it needs big waves and holes before it really becomes a playboat. I know people who could flat water cartwheel them, but they were obviously much stronger than me, I could never get anywhere near.

The modern playboat idea is probably the right track. It will be much more fun on Chester weir and at Mile End Mill when the Deer is too low for the Jive. I've never gone down that route myself because it really means learning a whole new skill set and I'm never going to spend enough time in it.
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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Jerry Tracey » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:14 am

I can't comment objectively, as I haven't tried a range of playboats. However, I have recently bought a Loki and am delighted with it - recommended!

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by SimonMW » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:20 am

Jackson Fun 2015?

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:40 pm

Haven't really looked at Jackson boats before. The pics and videos of the Fun look really good. The prices seem notably higher than the pyranha boats though. Thanks!

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by kayak1 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:39 pm

If you like the loki, but want to move a notch up in performance in the Surf and River, have a look at this clip.. at 4.20 of the clip (Orange and Yellow boat) its shows how a river boats surf next to proper surf kayaks, but can be more than just a surf boat as it excels as it was designed for (playing) in the river as well..same era as your Necky and a bit more extreme than the Loki..but similar to the Prozone etc.



A pic of the boat used (same type), I have always had one..simply for fun in the Surf and the River...Quite rare now but still out there.

Image

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:58 pm

Hi Kayak1, unfortunately the link isn't working. It is trying to open something called movie night final episode. The boat looks like a squirt boat with a comfy cockpit and must be great fun. Thanks Simon

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by kayak1 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:06 pm

Hi, Yes that's the link, just move it along to 4.20 of what is showing and you will see the Wavesport XXX in action..

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Simongelder » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:35 pm

Just found this video of playboat surfing on the Sea Kayaking Anglesey website.
Now that's what I had in mind!!!


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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by kayak1 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:41 pm

Yes.. that's my kinda surfin..I think its called "Having fun!"

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by coldwind » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:01 pm

Just picked up this old thread. Has anyone paddled both the Axiom and Loki in ocean surf. The Loki looks as it would be as good as it gets without fins.

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by kayak1 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:38 pm

Hi I have paddled the Axiom in the surf, it was Okay, but the water does pile up on the back deck and tends to pull the front end up a lot..I then moved on to a 1 Zone which was much better..I would say that a loki seems to be a better bet.. as I have been using a similarity kind of boat (wavesport XXX) which is awesome in the surf..

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by coldwind » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:22 am

kayak1 wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:38 pm
Hi I have paddled the Axiom in the surf, it was Okay, but the water does pile up on the back deck and tends to pull the front end up a lot..I then moved on to a 1 Zone which was much better..I would say that a loki seems to be a better bet.. as I have been using a similarity kind of boat (wavesport XXX) which is awesome in the surf..
I agree about the Axiom, I used to use mine in the surf regularly but now own a composite surf boat. As a shift worker I like to get out mid week when it's quiet but feel safer and more at home in a plastic ww boat when surfing solo. Might be time to sell the Axiom and try a Loki or something similar with a low volume bow

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by Strad » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:44 am

I quite like my juice for surf and play, but it's never going to match a proper surf boat on the waves. It's also maybe a bit short, and I think the fun suffers from that too.

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Re: Loki or Axiom one boat for all dither

Post by SimonMW » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:23 pm

I love the Loki, but my sea surf experience is limited. However I found that the Loki didn't carve as well as my Jitsu, and while the latter would hold a line I found the Loki wanting to go into a side surf all the time. So while I found the Loki to be a hoot on the river, I didn't find it as fun in the surf as my much shorter Jitsu. But this could just be that I am utterly crap at sea surfing so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

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