SUPs can't do whitewater

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morsey
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SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:36 pm

I've seen plenty of river wave and surf wave action with SUPs, but all of the down river descents I've seen have multiple bails! Any videos about of people actually SUPing down a section of white water?

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by StoneWeasel » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:00 pm

Go and speak to Corran about it. It is a bit of an obsession of his these days.

His current company Soul has been producing WW SUPs for a few years now any he is just starting to make new kayaks again.

As for videos, this is about the best I have come across, also with Corran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V8dK6ncm2M

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by StoneWeasel » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:10 pm

Found another clip of Corran sticking a drop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkY3YCsS4nw

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Corran » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:35 pm

I suppose it all depends on your perspective. Will SUP ever run the kind of things that kayaks can? I think its unlikely. Kayaks are the best tool for hard river running, followed by C1, then OC1 then SUP. Each step back from kayak increases the challenge, and thereby also restricts the ultimate level that can be attained. So if your ONLY goal is to run harder and harder stuff, take a kayak. Simple.

However, there is no doubt that we are both running, and sticking, easier class 5 stuff now on a sup. Just 5 or 6 years ago I;d have said that this would be unlikely, but skills and equipment have come a long way, and suddenly here we are. More importantly however, it's pure fun. For someone like myself, who has nothing to prove in a kayak, and I'm unlikely to ever run anything as hard again as I have in the past, SUP bring a refreshing challenge to my whitewater without having to push the limits of danger. Every time I go out I'm better than I was at the beginning of the day, and that's rewarding. It also takes the redundancy out of paddling (which is why in the 90's I used to C1 a lot too). SUP is fun. It's as simple as that. it's a whole lot of fun, and that's why we're doing it.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Poke » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:16 pm

Great photos!

I'd be interested to see "after" photos of all of those. How many remained standing?

To be fair, the first photo shows someone still(?) on their feet after a fairly interesting drop so there is some hope?! :-)

I'm in two minds as to whether WW SUP will catch on over here. Given the amount of kayaking I seem to be doing of late, I'm unlikely to push the grades much further than I've already done, C1 is an option for making easier rivers harder. So is SUP. Aside from the obvious temperature issues over here which might put off potential SUP'ers, many of the rivers that are paddled in kayaks are - for want of a better word - ditches. I get the impression that SUP's are better on big rivers with clean lines and no little f**k-you rocks just under the surface. Is this the case, or can relatively continuous, relatively narrow rivers/rocky ditches (say, upper Tryweryn) be remotely attainable on SUPs?
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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Dave Manby » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:42 pm

All seems a little pointless a bit like unicycle mountain biking!

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by kayak1 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Great if its your bag...but I'd get a Canadian before a SUP..which is to me, are what people are trying to achieve with a Sup..difference is your kneeling down with one paddle instead of standing up with one paddle...

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:44 pm

Poke - join the OC1 revolution :)

In terms of SUP, I'm definitely a faller offer, I couldn't imaging me trying to SUP anywhere that wasn't deep enough to fall in without getting hurt, well except for shallow weirs where you can just step off rather than falling off... I did better playing on one of them than I did in deep water come to think of it.

I've seen raft guides paddle rapids on the Colorado without falling off (they rotated guide duties to make time to SUP), my own efforts getting on a playwave ended in a lot of swimming!

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:48 pm

Nice photos and videos.

I wasn't questioning the value of SUP, I've seen it's value in so many areas that link my little world together, confirming that many friends, from within and outside kayaking, share the same values of challenging themselves and enjoying full immersion into nature and the outdoors. It's even becoming a 'cool thing' to do, be it on the beach on holiday or to stand tall and cruise amidst the harbour ships in Bristol docks.

I think my point regarding whitewater*, and Corran rightly points to the progression of SUP skills as still advancing, is that it would be cool to see a SUP make a clean (dry) descent of a class three river (Please post video if this already exists) as that would demarcate a clear step into whitewater. Below class three is pretty much touring, not judging just observing (A SUP and bivvy and overnight gear across fjords, lakes and along gentle rivers would clearly make for quality adventuring).


*Not wishing to create a debate that rates flat water** as better or worse than whitewater, they are all paddling and you take from your own paddling what you will, same as for high or low levels, or class three versus class five. Personally I love a good 'sunny run' as much as the next person, after a day smashing big water obvs!

**Having paddled pretty much every single day of rain for months I put my boat on Bristol docks last week, in the afternoon, to do some (boring) stroke work (We all need to continually refresh and update our technique) and yet two hours later after an amazing sunset I was still cruising around, in the dark, dodging rowing sculls and really enjoying the historic waterfront that I've seen a thousand times over.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:53 pm

Jim wrote: I'm definitely a faller offer
Same, but with waterfalls, fall off them all the time.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by feedbackproblem » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:22 pm

Poke wrote:Great photos!

I'd be interested to see "after" photos of all of those. How many remained standing?

To be fair, the first photo shows someone still(?) on their feet after a fairly interesting drop so there is some hope?! :-)

I'm in two minds as to whether WW SUP will catch on over here. Given the amount of kayaking I seem to be doing of late, I'm unlikely to push the grades much further than I've already done, C1 is an option for making easier rivers harder. So is SUP. Aside from the obvious temperature issues over here which might put off potential SUP'ers, many of the rivers that are paddled in kayaks are - for want of a better word - ditches. I get the impression that SUP's are better on big rivers with clean lines and no little f**k-you rocks just under the surface. Is this the case, or can relatively continuous, relatively narrow rivers/rocky ditches (say, upper Tryweryn) be remotely attainable on SUPs?
Last time I was at the ditch like Washburn there were a slew of kayakers following a SUPper down the river waiting to see how far he would get before he face planted in to a rock. He seemed quite happy to be centre of attention and he still had his front teeth so he was either very good or maybe very very new to the sport.

Here's a clip of Ant from Stand Up Paddle Board UK on Low Force - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiUAyb6_mkA

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by YorkieDave » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:01 am

feedbackproblem wrote: Last time I was at the ditch like Washburn there were a slew of kayakers following a SUPper down the river waiting to see how far he would get before he face planted in to a rock. He seemed quite happy to be centre of attention and he still had his front teeth so he was either very good or maybe very very new to the sport.
Yes we did and recently ran the Dee on a good medium level. I have a video somewhere.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by YorkieDave » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:43 pm

Here you go... Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgeQoUY1aF0

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by SimonMW » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:48 pm

I don't want to sound like I'm being a downer, as Corran makes some great points about SUP making lower grade rivers challenging again. People will have fun with whatever floats their boat.

From my own perspective though I see SUP as being mainly touring. The high centre of gravity makes even successful WW descents look borderline, with ungraceful wobbling and falling onto the knees all over. Even eddie turns look awkward. There's none of the flow, grace, and snappiness that I see with kayaks. Hence it doesn't appeal to me. I sort of see WW SUP as trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I wonder if some clever soul can come up with an alternative to a classic kayak or canoe that still has the grace and manoeuvrability.

Corran, if you're reading this, I think that sit on tops make kayaking more accessible to people who don't like closed cockpits, but nobody has really made a high performance one for WW yet. The Fluid and Pyranha ones are still big, heavy, and have a high centre of gravity. The Fluid Do It Now requires the most ridiculously long paddle to reach the water and is so heavy it needs two people to carry it. Maybe there's room for an innovative design there?

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:52 pm

Why did I search SUP WW ? This unfortunately* proves my point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hIZ2JT6uG0



*Am disappointed as I actually want to see some continuous class three + sections paddled on a SUP.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Grimpaddler » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Sup' can do ww. I have paddled the river dart loop on my sup, ran every rapid except the weir & lovers leap because of a tree hazard. All of that was on my feet. This is a new sport and in the UK there are 10+ people trying to find their way. You can now get whitewater sup boards. Yes we do fall off a lot ,but remember when you first started kayaking/ canoeing how much time did you spend in the water? Sup to me is a new challenge. I have run many grade 5 Rapids in the UK kayaking, I can find the same thrill on 2-3. The saying goes "if you ain't tried it, don't knock it ".

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by ion » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:52 am

SimonMW wrote: Corran, if you're reading this, I think that sit on tops make kayaking more accessible to people who don't like closed cockpits, but nobody has really made a high performance one for WW yet. The Fluid and Pyranha ones are still big, heavy, and have a high centre of gravity. The Fluid Do It Now requires the most ridiculously long paddle to reach the water and is so heavy it needs two people to carry it. Maybe there's room for an innovative design there?
I'd argue that Corran has so far made several very successful WW SUP designs, I wasn't remotely convinced until I tried one of them, now I own one.
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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by SimonMW » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:18 am

I asked him about sit on top kayaks, not SUP.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by ion » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:28 pm

SimonMW wrote:I asked him about sit on top kayaks, not SUP.
Ah yes, sorry my bad. So you're looking for this sort of thing then? http://www.soulwaterman.com/collections ... /buzz-kill

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by SimonMW » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:38 am

Not really. That's a low volume composite surf kayak designed for park and play on a glassy wave, rather than a whitewater boat that beginners or people who don't like the idea of enclosed cockpits could learn in.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:11 am

Another nice video
https://vimeo.com/156504778
But cuts the edit every time the SUP's are mid river and shows nice stills.

I'd like to see video, continuous, of a SUP going down through a class three rapid section of say 100 metres/300 feet long, please?

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by magictom » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:35 am

Today I made it down my local class 2 (+!) run without swimming! Seriously, I've been working at SUP, it's incredibly good fun. Here's some footage of my mate Barry (he's a lot better than i am)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6AfiUd-ME0

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Danny_G » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:49 am

These SUP's looks like they are actually hard composite body built but will the actual inflatable ones be as good? I am thinking of buying one from our local marine shop but can't decide yet. I do love the fact that you can actually carry them in a bag with you.

https://www.foxschandlery.com/2018-jobe ... rd-package

What do you guys think?

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by PlymouthDamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:56 am

Danny_G wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:49 am
What do you guys think?
I think that your two posts since joining this forum have been remarkably similar: resurrecting old threads to shoe-horn in a link for the same business.

I'd never buy from any business I thought was dishonest.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by Not Dave » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:12 am

Danny_G wrote:These SUP's looks like they are actually hard composite body built but will the actual inflatable ones be as good? I am thinking of buying one from our local marine shop but can't decide yet. I do love the fact that you can actually carry them in a bag with you.

https://www.foxschandlery.com/2018-jobe ... rd-package

What do you guys think?
£600 for a generic branded inflatable SUP is steep, try decathlon.

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Re: SUPs can't do whitewater

Post by morsey » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:04 pm

I'm still correct though, they can't do ww!

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