Bl**dy Rolling

Inland paddling
User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by TechnoEngineer »

You can do a very simple exercise to disprove the myth. Sit in the kayak on the water facing forward. Then rotate your shoulder and look over the side. You may not notice it, but you will have raised the knee that's on the side that your back has turned towards.

In fact, this "auto-edging" effect helps tremendously in breaking-in and out of current. One day at LV, I noticed that pretty much everyone who wasn't "turning their shoulders to look towards future water" was tripping over eddy lines.

Likewise, when you're surfing a wave, the boat will tend to follow where your shoulder line is "looking". Using this principle stopped me from getting washed off sideways at Hurley; "looking upstream" kept me on the wave.

Also when boofing, you may throw your body forward as a means to pull the knees into the chest; using an upper body action to cause a lower-body reaction.

So I'd been carrying this notion in my head for quite some time, and I was quite pleased to hear from a leading freestyle coach that he also believes the idea of upper/lower separation in kayaking is nonsense.

I can see how in other sports it is possible to be doing different things with upper and lower body, for instance in snowboarding you normally keep upper and lower body in line, however for freestyle (e.g. board-slides) and "slashing" (spray-braking) you use so-called "counter rotation", where the upper and lower body (shoulders and feet) are rotated in different directions. However in such a sport, there is a much higher degree of freedom of movement in the legs.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by SimonMW »

Jason, that example doesn't really prove anything other than a subtle structural connection in specific muscle groups. It is not the same as the skill of "delinking" to allow the bow to roll beneath you, or the other examples I gave. If you nod your head forwards, do your toes lift? The boof example is one of structure due to how the muscles have to work to complete a specific movement, and it is a similar concept to the one I use for rolling (twist and move the torso down towards the water rather than lifting knees). Which is very interesting, because you will note that although the rotational direction in this instance is the same as your edging example, it is a different knee that reacts and lifts.

So, let's look at your edging example and my rolling motion example. Try this. Do your edging test, where you rotate your torso to help lift the correct knee to help the edging of the boat. All well and good, and a perfectly good example. But... now do the same exercise, but purposefully lift the "wrong" knee. Now do the test again, but make a purposeful effort to physically lift the correct knee. Now do the same test yet again, and instead of focussing on knees, sink the downstream buttock into the seat.

You will find (if you are not weird) that when you perform the torso rotation that if you actually want to apply a physical muscle movement, it will be easier to lift the wrong knee or sink that buttock cheek. If you try to lift the correct knee it is actually more physically difficult to do.

What this shows is that the example you gave only shows a rudimentary structural link, and has more to do with where and how the torso joins the lower body through muscle groups. You can see them pulling on that side when you do the rotation due to the extreme motion. When you perform your exercise as an example to a beginner it actually relies on you "unlinking" and relaxing your downstream knee/muscles for it to work. If you tensed your downstream thigh muscles in any way while doing the torso rotation you should find that downstream side of the boat lifts more readily instead. As an aside of this therefore, for edging it is better IMHO to think in terms of sinking buttock cheeks rather than lifting knees.

In other words, you have proved unintentionally that you can actually metaphorically unlink things, because you have to for your torso rotation edge test to show the result you require, when considering that the body structure will more readily and easily lift the "wrong" downstream side when given the chance.

User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Cool will try that out sometime :)

I guess that I could try doing my "knee-waggle" exercise (that I use to loosen the hips) when looking sideways as well as looking forward.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

Sean_soup
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:17 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Sean_soup »

SimonMW wrote:Try this. Do your edging test, where you rotate your torso to help lift the correct knee to help the edging of the boat. All well and good, and a perfectly good example. But... now do the same exercise, but purposefully lift the "wrong" knee.
If you happen to be edging a sea kayak on flat water, that "wrong" knee is actually the right knee. :-)

User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by TechnoEngineer »

...and bending your upper body forward helps with keeping said knee engaged. Notice how Doug Cooper relaxes his upper body at 18 seconds in this video:


Also, thinking about this some more - rotating the torso and lifting the "wrong knee" is what you attempt to do with the old notion of "lifting the edge" of the kayak when performing a draw stroke. It's *very* difficult to do (and to digress, doesn't provide any real benefit)
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by SimonMW »

rotating the torso and lifting the "wrong knee" is what you attempt to do with the old notion of "lifting the edge" of the kayak when performing a draw stroke. It's *very* difficult to do (and to digress, doesn't provide any real benefit)
Jason, if I was wrong, then your boofing example doesn't work either, and neither does the exceptional recent rolling video by Dave Rossitter of Glenmore Lodge. You are in fact contradicting yourself by saying in one instance that moving towards the knee helps lift it (boofing, plus as I also mentioned during rolling too by moving the torso down towards the knee side you wish to lift), and then on the other hand saying that it is very hard to do (the side draw). It can't be both things simultaneously!

By mentioning that lifting the wrong knee is difficult while doing the draw stroke you are complicating things somewhat by introducing other simultaneous movements. But you are also missing the point at which lifting that knee is awkward. Actually lifting that knee is in fact very easy if you do it on the draw stroke itself (which is also coincidentally when it is most needed when there is a surge of power), plus you also have the natural bracing of the paddle to help too. It is only on the movement of the blade from the end of the stroke back to the catch where the lifting of that knee becomes physically difficult, for the reasons I mentioned previously. Try the exercise I suggested with your torso rotation for simplicity. You should be happy since it also proves your point about boofing forward!

Although none of this has anything to do with the skill of being able to "unlink" and relax selective parts of the body at will.

User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Draw stroke is not the same as boofing; when boofing your shoulder line is facing forward, when performing a draw stroke, the torso is rotated so that the shoulder line is almost facing sideways.

So there is no cognitive dissonance there ;)
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by SimonMW »

Jason, you are missing the point entirely. When you lean forward to boof to lift the knees, it is exactly the same as the rolling too (going down towards the knee you want to lift). Unless you are suggesting that during a roll, lifting the torso will help the roll?! That the torso is sideways mkaes no odds to the matter. By going down towards the knee you are contracting muscle groups that help/assist the action you are trying to engage. The example you gave of rotating and naturally lifting the upstream knee is only a passive result of the way the muscles and skeleton is connected, and is nullified once you actually engage the leg muscles.

I explained the reasons why you get a slight lift on the knee during your rotation example, and it isn't for the reasons that you appear to be saying they are. Like I said, all you need to do is try the suggestions I made to test the theory.

And like I said, this all has nothing to do with the price of China (ie the ability to disengage or unlink and relax parts of the body when required. The proof is in the action, not in the discussion.

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

Something like this? Didn't try used it for rescue just playing around.



Didn't try Simons experiment but did find if I only used the near hand rather than both I couldn't roll the boat at all! Is there any reason for the 1 versus 2 arms?
I can roll :)

Franky
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:07 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Franky »

SimonMW wrote:Jason, you are missing the point entirely. When you lean forward to boof to lift the knees, it is exactly the same as the rolling too (going down towards the knee you want to lift). Unless you are suggesting that during a roll, lifting the torso will help the roll?!
But the main reason you keep the torso down isn't to lift your knees, it's to keep your centre of gravity as close to the boat as possible, so that you don't fall back in again when you're halfway up.

If what you say is true, then surely a back deck roll wouldn't work, because then you have your torso as far from the knees as it's possible for it to be.

I always lean onto the back deck when I roll, as I sweep my paddle back. So my torso is nowhere near my knees when I do my hip flick. (Aside: some say it's bad practice to lean back because it exposes your face, but it is certainly effective because it increases your angular momentum at the crucial moment.)

Once a complex motion becomes habitual, it's natural to assume that every part of it is automatically linked to every other part, but often that link is simply due to muscle memory.

acostamorte
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by acostamorte »

Wow, almost 18,000 views..

I teach Greenland rolling so I'm biased to my methods so let's get that caveat out the way.

Seems to me you have 2 problems: one the mechanics of the roll and second, your panic underwater.

It could be that Greenland rolling might help solve both problems. How?

When you learn to roll with the standard methods you have to commit to capsize to set up for the roll. You then either hit it or, more likely, you don't. Cue stress and panic.

With Greenland rolling you start the learning process at the end of the roll, the recovery and not the set up. Gradually, bit by bit, you allow the kayak to slowly capsize on top of you and each time you come back to the recovery position. This way you avoid having to capsize all the way, you go as far as you want and then a little further the next time. Everything should be controlled and effortless. Once comfortable with this you can then allow the kayak to capsize completely, set up and roll.

Along the way you learn how to scull. One day, much sculling later, when rolling is like falling off a log, it may become clear to you that the standard roll is essentially an extension of sculling.



The video is with a sea kayak and a Greenland paddle but it could just as easily be a creek boat and a Euro paddle.

What have you got to lose?

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

At the moment very little :) Hopefully haven't put too many people off learning to roll*!

I've improved I used to be able to panic upright too. Greenland rolling looks great and I did consider trying it but there are few times and places to learn I could find. Playing with the bag was fun so I'll be having a go at possibly upside down things other than rolling again. Lots of ideas here :)


* It is not normal to take this long, you should be able to roll in a timescale measured in hours not years.
I can roll :)

Franky
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:07 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Franky »

gp.girl wrote:* It is not normal to take this long, you should be able to roll in a timescale measured in hours not years.
Not true generally I don't think. For some people the first roll might come in hours, but it's typically months before it's consistent, even on flat water. That was true for me, at least.

Besides, you can roll because you've posted videos of yourself doing it! It's the consistency that's the issue.

I've said before that the way you roll, from your videos, is different from how I do it. I lean back towards the back of the boat as I sweep, to keep my centre of gravity close to the boat - that's what the video I watched told me to do. According to some, that is wrong because it exposes your face to rocks, but I see lots of people doing it and I am sure it makes the rolling easier. Kayaking's never without risks, and there's sometimes a balance to be struck between risk and effectiveness.

I'm not saying how you were taught is wrong, but in your vids you keep your torso dead centre in the boat all the way through the roll. I'd find that difficult but it may just be that it's not how I learned it.

User avatar
DaveBland
Posts: 3658
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Calgary Canada
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by DaveBland »

Agree with Franky 100%. You can roll - as your vids and comments have shown.Your roll is not consistent. I like to go by percentages. NO-ONE has a 100% roll.
In truth, I like to go by percentages of first time roll, given that if you come up second attempt, it means you failed on the first.

There really aren't that many paddlers [again percentage-wise] that are in the 90s for first time rolls. Yes, they are the ones you see in thevids etc but the reality is that most recreational paddlers who 'have a roll' are around the 20-60% mark at best.

All this pressure you are putting on yourself is clearly hindering your progress. You can roll and have done on moving water, so focus on that and just go enjoy paddling. If to flip, then give rolling a go.

The main pointing that you believe you can roll. You know you can. You have. Now it's all about getting that percentage up. And that'll only happen by giving it a go when you need to.
dave

sunstreaker
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:16 am
Contact:

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by sunstreaker »

I have never rolled in the sea or on any club trips, to be honest I don't like getting wet. However I roll every week in the pool and feel I have to keep my roll up to scratch by rolling every week. In the pool it's been 100 percent for the last year. For me, I struggled with the sweep roll and still do. I started with Powlata And focus sing on coming up on the back deck. you tube E.J's vids on rolling and Helen ? Surname on Greenland back deck. I then ditched trying to do the sweep and turned to the c to c. Someone mentioned before some times your a c to c person as opposed to a sweeper. E.Js words it all in the hip flick .
Using Tapatalk

Franky
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:07 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Franky »

sunstreaker wrote:However I roll every week in the pool and feel I have to keep my roll up to scratch by rolling every week.
+1. No need to keep pushing yourself to roll on white water. Take it a step at a time.

I practised in a pool till I was blue in the face. Only when I my pool roll was 80-90% did I start practising regularly in cold flat water. And only when I'd reached a similar percentage in cold flat water did I start to believe I could roll in white water.

My first white water roll was a surprise - on the Tees at huge levels on a cold February day, I tipped over and thought, "I've been rolling in a pool all winter so theoretically I can roll here - might as well try." Couldn't believe it when I came up. It was no harder than in a pool - the only difference had been my belief that it would be.

That wasn't "it" - I had lots of swims subsequently. That's how it goes with any skill - you may do something well once, but it takes a while before it becomes ingrained, so you need to keep practising. And practise in benign conditions (i.e. a pool) until you feel ready to move on.

If you get in a rut, try practising rolling on your off side. If you can't do an off-side roll yet - all the more reason to learn! Anything to jolt yourself out of a rut. Try spending a whole pool session trying to do an off-side roll. Maybe you'll do it, maybe you won't - just forget your on-side roll.

Then try your on-side roll again the next week. You might find to your surprise that you've got it back because you took a break from subconsciously chastising yourself for not being able to do it.

And more generally - if you find yourself regressing, go back to basics. If your white water roll deteriorates, go back to pool practice, and forget white water rolling for as long as you need to. Keep white water for having fun, and the pool for rolling. That said, if you can start to actively enjoy rolling in the pool then you've cracked it. From then on it's just a matter of extending the enjoyment to less obviously enjoyable situations!
For me, I struggled with the sweep roll and still do. I started with Powlata And focus sing on coming up on the back deck. you tube E.J's vids on rolling and Helen ? Surname on Greenland back deck. I then ditched trying to do the sweep and turned to the c to c. Someone mentioned before some times your a c to c person as opposed to a sweeper. E.Js words it all in the hip flick .
Yup, there's no shame in a c-to-c! I too pretty much gave up on the sweep roll because I got a much higher success rate with the c-to-c - I could concentrate on one action at a time. Over time, my c-to-c seems to have got closer to a sweep roll, but that's not something I consciously aimed for.

Paddlers do Pawlata rolls on the LV Olympic. It really is a question of "whatever works".

(I'm glad that someone agrees that you should come up on the back deck. I was watching some playboaters this evening - much better paddlers than me - and they leaned back when they came up. It seems to be a natural function of the sweep, apart from anything.)

acostamorte
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by acostamorte »

gp.girl wrote: Greenland rolling looks great and I did consider trying it but there are few times and places to learn I could find
Winter coming on, dark nights ahead, I recommend buying the DVD "This is the Roll" and hibernating with it. The devil is in the detail and this is what Greenland rolling excels at, the detail.



http://www.cackletv.com/sea-kayaking-dv ... -the-roll/

Really, the best £20 you'll ever spend. Takes all the mystery out of what some people think is a black art.

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

Franky wrote: I'm not saying how you were taught is wrong, but in your vids you keep your torso dead centre in the boat all the way through the roll. I'd find that difficult but it may just be that it's not how I learned it.
I know you're meant to flex your body. Thats probably a long standing bad habit. Might have something to do with ongoing back problems?

c to c wise need a better sweep out as thats really not going to work with the paddle in its normal dived position. Not sure how to practice just the sweep can get the angle right to start just goes wrong after that.

Thought about trying offside. Not rolling! Just trying recovery with a paddle (lump of foam) float and set up. If I have the dry bag handy I can try that for rescue :)
I can roll :)

User avatar
Chalky723
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:56 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Chalky723 »

You can roll, you have the technique right, you know what to do. The roll isn't the problem.

It's your confidence. As has been said many times before - stop thinking about it!! Just get out there & paddle. If you're tense and worried all the time you're on whitewater because you're thinking about not rolling then you're not going to be enjoying it - and if you're not enjoying Whitewater you may be better off selling that Burn & getting a nice flatwater tourer!

Stop worrying about it & psyching yourself out - I paddle with people that can't roll for toffee & they still manage to have a great time!! As long as you're not throwing yourself down grade 4/5 you should be fine on the whole, with only the odd swim, and if you're swimming lots then you need to back off & go down a grade to ensure you're reducing the chance of swimming.

D
Jackson Nirvana, LL Remix 69, BMW F650GS...

sunstreaker
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:16 am
Contact:

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by sunstreaker »

c to c wise need a better sweep out as thats really not going to work with the paddle in its normal dived position. Not sure how to practice just the sweep can get the angle right to start just goes wrong after that.

Thought about trying offside. Not rolling! Just trying recovery with a paddle (lump of foam) float and set up. If I have the dry bag handy I can try that for rescue :)[/quote]

A paddle float can help with technique, but for me c to c and Pawlata are more about leverage and less about having to worry about paddle blade diving and position.
Using Tapatalk

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

Don't worry when actually paddling :) got pretty good at staying upright. Not pushing grade at the moment, next ww weekend is the Frome, Dart Loop and either the Teign or Walkham/Tavy. Shouldn't be falling in any of that. There was an option of saying G3/4 for the weekend which I didn't pick.

As long as rolling doesn't come up I'm a happy bunny.

Paddle float gives me a chance to come up reliably too.
I can roll :)

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by SimonMW »

But the main reason you keep the torso down isn't to lift your knees, it's to keep your centre of gravity as close to the boat as possible, so that you don't fall back in again when you're halfway up.

If what you say is true, then surely a back deck roll wouldn't work, because then you have your torso as far from the knees as it's possible for it to be.
Then you are still mis-understanding the mechanics. You aren't really "lifting your knees". It isn't that simple, and you are simplifying and making things too black and white by putting such an emphasis on my mentioning of the knees. There are many muscle groups that are activated depending on what you are doing (mainly in your mid section, activated by a crunching action). When you do the boof, crunching forward is like a chain reaction that goes from your mid-section section muscles and ends in your legs through mechanical advantage and connection. Your back deck roll works because doing it correctly means that you can activate the correct muscles in the way that I describe, rotating the boat up under you. If you tried to lift your torso out of the water you would pull yourself over just like any roll. Incidentally, your backdeck roll would be more efficient if you ended up coming up over the front deck at the end, using the full motion, and helping the mechanical advantage and connection I describe.

Once again, as I told Jason, discussing it is one thing. Doing the tests I mentioned and actually analysing what is truly happening is quite another. I am amazed at how much the mechanics of the roll are misunderstood.

Okay, do not take my word for it. Dave Rossetter illustrates, describes, and shows exactly the muscle activation I am describing in these videos. I had to work out what is said in these videos for myself, because pretty much everyone else who taught me to roll had a similar way of thinking to yourself about the mechanics.






gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

Finally got round to trying rolling in the river. Alright I cheated by using the paddle float but wanted to see now I coped with cold and moving water. First one in the eddy and second one in the wavetrain. Both felt almost exactly like the pool even with drysuit, BA, helmet etc. Kept calm, set up, waited and rolled fine. Might have been a bit bouncy afterwards!
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

First offside roll without float in the pool :) Now going to test my confidence at CIWW to see if I can roll for real. Err and try a playboat.....
I can roll :)

LucyLou19
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by LucyLou19 »

Wow good for you!! Playboat are the best!

Conor Buckboy
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:59 am

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Conor Buckboy »

"A paddler with a great roll is a paddler with a terrible highbrace"

My suggestion is to practice the motions using a poole side or the nose of a friends kayak, until you have a good proper technique. Then transfer to a paddle float, then finally just practice the real thing in a pool. It's how we teach the kids.

MaverickvRS
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:00 pm
Location: West Sussex
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by MaverickvRS »

^^^ "A paddler with a great roll is a paddler with a terrible highbrace"

I've found that after getting used to the roll and being confident that "if all goes wrong I can get back up" it has given me much more confidence in practicing the high brace and skulling brace!

But that's just my 2p...

Alec
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:45 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Alec »

Who on earth is still teaching you the skulling brace in this day and age?

Surely that stroke was consigned to history along with the slap support 20 years ago.

gp.girl
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl »

Alec wrote:Who on earth is still teaching you the skulling brace in this day and age?

Surely that stroke was consigned to history along with the slap support 20 years ago.
Still alive and well here. Great for showing off maybe?
I can roll :)

Alec
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:45 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Alec »

Ask yourself "What are you showing off?"

My answer would be "A stroke that serves no useful purpose anywhere in paddlesport, which encourages bad posture (body position) and leaves the shoulder very open and exposed to injury"

Post Reply

Return to “Whitewater and Touring”