Bl**dy Rolling

Inland paddling
MaverickvRS
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:00 pm
Location: West Sussex
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by MaverickvRS » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Back to the drawing board, and concentrate more on the technique!! The unfamiliar boat may also have had an impact - a big creeker isn't my normal barge!

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:47 pm
Leaning back to finish a roll is not cheating, it is a valid kind of roll which is reliable.
Remaining in the lay back position once you have rolled leaves you vulnerable to falling straight back in so best to learn to roll leaning back and then sit up immediately.
In time you will find you start sitting up before you get right up and use a forward sweep whilst sitting up - at this point you will have changed your roll to a combat roll which is even more useful on white water because you come up ready for a forward stroke and not needing half a second to sit up and get the blade forwards, but that doesn't mean a basic screw roll is wrong, just that you also need to remember to condition yourself to sit up ASAP to get the next paddle stroke on balance and not get in the habit of stopping to take a breather whilst lying back.
Fairly sure I sat up quickly afterwards :) Will see about ending on a forward forward sweep. I was very surprised by doing the extra support stroke, never done that before! Next session is going to have to see if I can get the blade to stay on the surface for more than 45 degrees of the sweep.
I can roll :)

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13857
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Jim » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:38 am

That just means you are getting a feel for it and starting to do stuff instinctively - that's good!

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:11 pm

100% success rate. No dodgy rolls. Nicked OH 30 degree paddle and it seemed to make a difference despite being cranked. Might be the bigger blade/longer shaft. Seem to be taking a long time to set up and get going but not running out of air! Really should get some video to see what it looks like.
I can roll :)

coldwind
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:17 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by coldwind » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 am

Pool sessions are great for rolling but I struggled transfering those skills to real life sea and surf kayaking. I cracked it by spending a day at a local lake armed with a foam paddle float, and a full divers face mask. Some instructors hate paddle floats but it allowed me to perfect my timing without worrying about wet exits as a c to c roll is easy with a float. A few hours with a break builds up muscle memory and eventually it all clicks in. I wear contact lenses so now roll with my eyes closed relying on feel and timing.

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:02 pm

coldwind wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 am
Pool sessions are great for rolling but I struggled transfering those skills to real life sea and surf kayaking. I cracked it by spending a day at a local lake armed with a foam paddle float, and a full divers face mask. Some instructors hate paddle floats but it allowed me to perfect my timing without worrying about wet exits as a c to c roll is easy with a float. A few hours with a break builds up muscle memory and eventually it all clicks in. I wear contact lenses so now roll with my eyes closed relying on feel and timing.
Next bit :) that one is almost entirely head game and I've done it once already, for real, including upside down decent of drop. Just couldn't make it work again. Tried the paddle float in moving water the worst bit was getting the boat to capsize suddenly when I want to stay upright until forced over! Don't suffer from ice cream head much but might struggle with not seeing the paddle without the float. Just need to find time and a nice feature and someone willing to keep an eye out for me.
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:14 pm

DaveBland wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:48 am
It's true of most sports, but with ww paddling in particular... it's about 70% head games and the rest is a mix of fitness, strength and physical aptitude.

You can work on all the technique and physical suff in the World, but if your head ain't there, you are onto closer before you start.
Which explains why on a good day, when I lose the fear I paddle a lot better. Tried applying this in a small way with the bl***dy rolling issue. Only in the pool but when i start reverting to i can't do this, take a breather and change the attitude to try again probably something different. So even though the onside isn't amazing I can still use it as a fallback to the almost non-existant offside roll (can set up but can't sweep the paddle out yet) to try falling over unexpectedly. Still not looking forward to trying it in the real world but just going to have to take it very slowly.
I can roll :)

Greenlandpaddler
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Greenlandpaddler » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:38 am

I teach Greenland Style Rolling in Dorset - PM me if you want to try something different. Regards Mike

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Thu May 03, 2018 10:09 pm

Actually had more success with cold water and practice than warm water and practice. Mostly because I took the playboat to a pool session and it still upsets my roll. There's the part of me that is being stubborn and the other part says don't bother it is not worth the risk. At least I know it won't affect rolling the burn :)
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat May 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Rolled some more. Ripper and burn again on the river. Should have tried the veloc too. Now for the playboat....
I can roll :)

MaverickvRS
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:00 pm
Location: West Sussex
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by MaverickvRS » Wed May 16, 2018 9:59 am

I got a new buoyancy aid recently and that makes rolling interesting - it's a 70N which may not sound a huge increase, however getting to a completely inverted start position is a challenge on flat water.

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat May 19, 2018 12:13 am

Tonight's challenge, roll as many different boats as possible! Result 6 boats - burn, 2 fun, diesel, g force, allstar and mamba.
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun May 27, 2018 7:14 pm

So out on the river today, mixed results, first moving water roll in about 3 years, practice only and thats the second moving water roll ever so 100% increase :) rolled the playboat on a river which is a first. Far too much dodgy rolling, swimming and head lifting. Impressively I can lift my head while gripping the end of the B/A shoulder strap in my mouth (that roll didn't work)! Back to my trusty sherpa as much as get on with it very well a fancy, carbon foam core race paddle is a serious case of credit card kayaking with a bonus of WHY?

Getting a lot more willing to go into something I'm not totally confident I can cope with.

Biggest problem, I hate being upside down and out of control. So I pull the deck after a failed roll or unexpected capsize. I might manage a couple of seconds on a good day. Today qualified as my only unexpected capsize was actually followed by a 3 second hesitation before bailing. Apparently I was out of the wave that I capsized on but it didn't feel that way at all, still bubbly and throwing the boat around.

I can do the failed roll and rescue in the pool but not the unexpected capsize.

Other positives, well I went back into the wave for another try after surviving the first go. Didn't give up just didn't get that far. Found that I'm better off overdressed so there's little chance of getting cold and if possible overheating encourages rolling. I seem to be booked in to try learning to backdeck roll next month...

So need some way to get used to failed rolls on the river, unexpected capsizes in the pool and at some point real falling over on a river.

Must add more foam under the seat of the molan or just give in and buy a happy seat.
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:39 pm

For me I did well, unexpected capsized was followed by 3 seconds of tapping and a swim. No time for a second go.

Even the burn needs extra foam. How easy is it to move a sweet cheeks between boats?
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 am

3 months later and I tap more but still panic. The playboat is going as it hates me and I hate it! Roll is still sketchy, poorly done and unreliable and I now have a great carping technique :) got to look at the small improvements as before I wouldn't take a breath until I was solidly upright or holding onto something so in theory I could now take a second go (another of those things I have only managed once ever) or at least hold on a bit longer if only it wasn't firmly linked in my mind to panicking :(

So the attempt to get familiar with being underwater has mostly consisted of making myself more familiar with panic and now occasional disorientation underwater. No idea what went wrong or how to do it correctly but turning the boat over although an obvious and unavoidable first step seems to be wrong as it certainly hasn't improved anything.
I can roll :)

Ed_P
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Ed_P » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm

My technique is terrible so far and this doesn't fill me with much confidence! Hope it all goes well for you

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:26 am

Ed_P wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm
My technique is terrible so far and this doesn't fill me with much confidence! Hope it all goes well for you
the good news is I'm on the really exteme end of being useless at this so there's almost no way you'll take longer or have a worse time :)
I can roll :)

Kirsten
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Kirsten » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:57 pm

Still doing the head thing? Boats are living things and they know when you fear them, hate them or just love them. According your signature you hate rolling, quite understandable with your history, but this is not helping either, quite the opposite.

I had a long way until I got my roll and I still have only a right hand roll but I don't care. I'm happy with it, although it is plan at this winters pool session to get a off site roll sorted. Though I still having issues to relax on the river, but it is a head thing as it yours with the roll.

Some days / river trips I perform worse than others. Sadly I can't do much about it, but it is getting better. Only issue is when I with people I didn't paddled before or the river is in a state I never experienced before/I don't now the river at all, whereby the company became now the bigger factor. Although on my last paddle I was with a paddler I was knowing, I paddled with him before and it was a river I was knowing quite well and paddled in different states, from very low to it shouldn't be higher. But it was the first time that I paddled only with him and no one else on this river which as a few G3 to offer, all of them making me slightly nervous anyway when being out with a group. Interesting enough I didn't capsized in any of the difficulties, but quite early in a minor rapid (no idea what actually happened) and recovered with a roll. The roll was a Pawlata roll as I was so wobbly on the day, I didn't trusted my normal setup.
Then, half way down the river stretch I had to abandoned my boat and paddle after a mishap at the start of a boulder field. Result was not a swim as not enough water but crawling to the river bank. At this point I actually wanted to call it a day and wanted to walk to the car, watching my buddy from the bank to make sure he is ok. But my buddy offered me to paddle my boat down the rapid and I carry is playboat as it is lighter, the next rapid he would help me with the portage and the last rapid can be skipped as it is the get out anyway.
In the end I only carried the playboat along the rapid just after my mishap and paddled the other two rapids without difficulties, although being nervous at the top. I did it because in one of the rapids I had a capsize (my first one there) just the week before, at the bottom. Although it is quite narrow it is deep enough to roll, which I did successfully, so I knew even if I get in trouble, I can get myself out again. Should I have capsized at the last rapid (have done it before), the car and dry clothes would be only a few meters away.

That's kind of normal for my White Water kayaking, I'm utterly self-conscious if it comes that I need others to get me out of a situation I brought myself in or is even the chance that I can get in trouble (and on a river there is always a chance for a capsize). I know everyone can capsize, sometimes in hilarious situations, there is nothing like a bomb proof roll, everyone is having a swim from time to time. Just relax, enjoy and have a laugh ... which is easier said than done and for me really hard to achieve.

Get this roll out of your head for now, don't care about it. Go with buddies who are fine with swimmers. If you can relax, than you will not end up in a need of a roll anyway ;) I know paddlers who can smile all the time and enjoy themselves and even as beginners they ended up barely swimming although with the mistakes they did everyone else would have been upside down.

Oh, even a dodgy roll is a roll, as long it brings your up, it's fine ;)

For unexpected capsizing in the pool: ball chasing games (wear a helmet!) are good for capsizes or some naughty buddies.

User avatar
StillNewish
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:31 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by StillNewish » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:22 pm

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it already, but, if you can, I'd seriously consider some professional coaching, to focus on just rolling.

Don't do it with your club, or your mates, or a random person who offers, but try to find a coach who you can build a good rapport with beforehand, and who understands the head-games that are going on.

I'm not sure who to recommend, so will have to leave that up to you, but, from what you've written I think it would be time well spent. maybe booking two sessions a few weeks apart to gradually build up the confidence levels.

Maybe something like this;

https://www.pyb.co.uk/course/rolling-clinic/

No connection etc.

Good luck with it, let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Colin

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:33 am

Well I finally managed the right combination of paddle buddy (Rob), boat (I love my burn) conditions (warmish) venue (bottom wave at LV) and me (happy, relaxed, confident) and just ended up rolling a lot. You should have seen Rob's face the first time! Only 2 swims after rolling up still in the hole and not going for a second try. Last surf was ridiculously easy for someone who's avoided waves and holes for years!
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:46 pm

Quick update - variable success - lots when playing not so much when going down the Lee Valley course. Some with a borrowed boat and once with a borrowed paddle just to make it a bit more 'fun'. No sign of a second attempt yet but moving towards a solid first attempt. Even mananaged to remember the tip of the evening while upside down after a couple of swims :) resulting in 3 back to upright moments.

Getting a lot more independent and quicker to go to the top rather than play around at the bottom. Less nervous if I find myself somewhere I'm not keen on and fewer places I really don't want to be.

At some point I'll have to go on a real river and try it again.
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:40 pm

OK so last session was 1 hour one roll no swims. Not quite straight up to the top but close enough. Much happier in places I did't like. Did have to pause a bit after the roll as the nerves weren't happy about the frothy bits and being made to wait to roll ;)
I can roll :)

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun May 19, 2019 9:43 pm

OK start with the good bits - lots of rolling even one swim free session. Last LV session was lots of surfing, rolling and swimming. Still struggling on real rivers but going to have 4 more days to work on that soon.

Biggest problem is the almost total lack of a second roll attempt - alright I finally managed one, it was a bit pathetic but there was a try at a setup and a sweep even if it totally failed. Probably a bit over excited about it but hey it's taken a long time to manage :)

So somehow I need to get over the reflex deck pulling/panic caused by a failed roll. It isn't much better in the pool or in non moving water so nothing to do with moving water or rocks and blocks. I know I'm fine once I have hold of a boat in a rescue but up until then I'm panicky and if I lose concentration for even a fraction of a second that's it I'm out of the boat.

Somehow I've managed to convince myself it's ok to set up and try to roll, even if it took weeks to actually work properly but not having much luck with the second try. So having little idea what I did the first time, I'm struggling with how to do it again. I know the panic bit needs to go or at least to be separated from a failed roll in my head just not how.

At the moment I'm going for the simple just keep falling over until it gives in - not complicated and very slow but it did work this time on the first problem. Also seems a bit risky as it's backfired before when all I manage to do is make the panicking worse.

Any better ideas?

Trying to improve my roll too - it's nowhere near perfect and somehow I seem to have been encouraged into learning an offside roll again....
I can roll :)

frazerp
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:43 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by frazerp » Mon May 20, 2019 10:22 am

Sounds like your roll is coming along nicely (well done). Now you need to work on your head (this is pretty common). I’d suggest some non-rolling. Try this for instance: take some weights and lob them in the deep end. Now dive in and get them. See how many you can get on one dive. Once you can do a few try jumping in without a plan on which to get first. You are working on doing stuff when you are low on air and planning underwater.

Alongside this try rolling without setting up first: drop your blade in the water beside you and grab it as you fall in. Now roll up. Ditto set up for a reverse roll: now roll up normally. Can you roll both sides already? If not, the second roll is a killer: if you start right and fail you end up close to a left set up. Practice off-side rolling: if you miss it, you can switch to your stronger roll.

At the end of the day it is just practice. Keep at it, it’ll come.

Frazer

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Mon May 20, 2019 9:59 pm

No offside roll here - yet :) one side to the other worked for me too although I might have been cheating a bit as the offside attempt was half hearted at best.
Not sure where I'd be able to dive for weights. Did have a go at hunt the dropped goPro in the deep end. I found that I float, even diving in it was a struggle to get to the bottom. Maybe in the shallow end? Definitely had the same problem with being underwater though and gave up quickly.

I do know anything different throws me, even trying outside without a helmet was enough to put me off. So my roll is probably twice as good if I capsize to the right than left rolling on the right(onside). Just bringing the paddle under the boat makes a big difference. Stuff I'm familiar with works well and if I do get any issues I can control it. So as a pool trick I can capsize at one end of a boat and rescue off the other end. Not useful but fun!

Despite hating and being very bad at waiting for a bow rescue I will always pick this over a second try on flat water. Actually this makes absolutely no sense as my panicked swim rate after waiting <2 seconds is worse than my roll. Unfortunately that bit has a much faster reaction time....

Would like to not get that horrible feeling when I go back over. Will have to keep being stubborn about trying and at some point it will change.
I can roll :)

frazerp
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:43 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by frazerp » Tue May 21, 2019 2:57 pm

Sounds like you did some good practising. Shallow end is fine for weights, some people have trouble with their ears at the deep end anyway. The idea is just to get your head underwater. You can buy cheap "pool sharks" from most pools, they have little fins and sink slowly so stand up on the bottom.

The swapping sides drill doesn't require a proper attempt, well done for it working! Now you know if you fall in on your offside you have time to swap and try a roll before bailing. Even if it doesn't work the time spent swapping is time you didn't simply pull your deck and that's good. You never know, you might give someone time to get to you for a t-rescue.

Another thought: are you practising rolling in the pool with your buoyancy aid and helmet on? Looks daft but particularly the buoyancy aid can make a big difference to how a roll feels.

TheEcho
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:11 pm
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by TheEcho » Tue May 21, 2019 3:33 pm

I bet that because being underwater is out of your comfort zone, you were taking a huge breath in before diving for the GoPro . This would make it difficult for you to get to the bottom. If you relax and don’t overinflate your lungs you will find it easier to swim downwards. Not relevant to rolling though other than how it relates to general water confidence.

Chris Bolton
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Chris Bolton » Tue May 21, 2019 4:17 pm

If picking up weights in the pool is difficult, an alternative is just to duck your head under in the shallow end, see how long you can stay under, and work up to longer times. Or see how far you can swim under water; I worked up to two full lengths of a 25m pool, including turning at the end. You still have to convince your brain that you're not about to drown when your first roll attempt fails, but being aware that can hold your breath for much longer does help. Humans have an inbuilt panic reaction to being under water, but once you learn to stay calm it's amazing what you can do.

Franky
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:07 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Franky » Tue May 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Not directly related to gpgirl's efforts, but I was reminded on Saturday how much rolling is a head game. I wasn't in the zone at all, my head full of work-related schijt. I surfed waves and, as usual, capsized a fair bit - and when I was upside-down, all I could think was, "What if I can't roll?" Several times, I made 1, 2, even 3 attempts before I got up. When I did get up, it seemed to be because the thought "I hate swimming" finally displaced the worry about not rolling.

On a good day, the thought of not being able to roll doesn't enter my mind - I'm completely concentrated on the roll itself.

It made me think that there's no substitute for being in a generally positive frame of mind.

gp.girl
Posts: 609
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Wed May 22, 2019 11:33 am

Started using a B/A ages ago after finding that the roll I'd learnt didn't work with a B/A on. Don't really want to abuse my helmet in the pool but fine to use it on the river actually sort of have to!

Biggest problem with the weights in the deep end is that it's too far out of my comfort zone and that just causes issues. Not to sure if I'd be able to get them back at all! Probably did take a breath but I float just fine without air due to density :) Back to the pool for some underwater fun at some point.

At the moment it's still easier, faster and an awful lot more reliable to bail rather than roll. The first one happens because I learnt to give it a try overriding both the logical argument and the panicked feeling against staying there. The second one doesn't as a failed roll is much worse than a capsize at least in my head. I'd be almost starting to bail before the roll has failed as the falling back in feeling is that bad. Probably a hang up from at awful lot of failed rolls and the fact that I learnt to panic before learning anything else.
I can roll :)

Post Reply

Return to “Whitewater and Touring”