Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

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GraemeAsh
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Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by GraemeAsh » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:33 am

Hi everyone, I’m struggling trying to find some to show/help me to roll a kayak.

I’ve been using a sit on top for a year or so and very confident using it. I’ve recently brought a new sit inside (Perception Expression 11). I’ll only be using it on rivers and light sea conditions, but want to learn to roll it. I would rather be on the water knowing I can do it rather than ‘thinking’ I can do it.

I’ve contacted two of the main clubs in the area who weren’t really very helpful unless I joined their clubs, however I can’t make the times they meet due to my working hours. I’ve searched the internet for local kayak instructors etc but without success.

I live in the Plymouth area and happy to travel anywhere in Devon or Cornwall if someone can help, and I’m happy to pay for a private lesson.

Can anyone please help, or suggest anyone else?

Regards,

Graeme

Bod Bagby
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Bod Bagby » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:36 pm

It is difficult for clubs as their instructors are busy coaching club members.

The only person I can think of who is advertising private lessons is Liam Kirkham through AS Watersports in Exeter. Liam is a nice chap and I know has got lots of people rolling. Contact him through the shop or if you are on FB he goes under the name "Liam Paddling"

GraemeAsh
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by GraemeAsh » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:02 pm

Thank you very much Bob, I'll search for him now. :)

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by AS Watersports » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:48 am

Many Thanks! The rolling season is upon us!

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by buck197 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:47 am

Liam's sessions on rolling are ace, thoroughly recommended. As a member of one of the two clubs in Plymouth I believe we can help but we don't specifically just teach rolling, we would take you on a progression to becoming a safe paddler. Knowing the other club in Plymouth well, they are also in this vein and are recommended to progress your skills.
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Jim
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Jim » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:09 pm

It hardly matters if the guy can't make the club sessions due to work times.....

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by jamiemagee » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:15 pm

I think the skills to prevent needing a roll would be taught first. I can roll in the pool but there's no way I can roll with my kit on.

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Franky » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:27 pm

jamiemagee wrote:I think the skills to prevent needing a roll would be taught first. I can roll in the pool but there's no way I can roll with my kit on.
I think the roll should come first.

Yes, the roll is a Plan B, but without a Plan B you're relying on never making a mistake. Not making mistakes is something that only comes with a lot of practice.

From my own experience, never needing to roll is a LOT harder than rolling.

When you're fairly confident you can roll, you stop worrying about not needing to roll and treat the occasional capsize as part of the challenge. I'm not quite at that stage yet but at least on good days I'm not always thinking, "Whatever I do, I mustn't capsize".

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Jim » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:52 pm

Its catch 22, learning techniques to avoid capsizing first helps with rolling, learning to roll first helps with mastering the techniques to avoid capsizing because when you fail during training you can just roll up and try again (which greatly increases confidence and gets people to commit to the technique which is the only way it really works - half hearted braces or sculls are weak!

I used to just teach people to roll right away unless they had serious natural ineptitude for it (some people do, most don't) and then teach them how not to need their roll (although I have always rolled a lot myself).

But they are all highly connected and most of the time it is best to teach a bit of each.

I am quite sure Liam is able to adjust his tuition to suit the requirements of the individual and doesn't need us to tell him what order to teach stuff!

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by John K » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:18 am

Franky wrote:When you're fairly confident you can roll, you stop worrying about not needing to roll and treat the occasional capsize as part of the challenge. I'm not quite at that stage yet but at least on good days I'm not always thinking, "Whatever I do, I mustn't capsize".
Same here. Still some way to go, but knowing that a capsize isn't going to inevitably lead to a swim has improved my paddling immeasurably.

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by GraemeAsh » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:21 am

Interesting reading all your thoughts, thank you.

I'm very confident on/in the water, I've been active with many water sports all my life. I've also been kayaking with a sit on top for about 18 months. I now have a sit inside kayak and realise it's completely different, but if I did capsize and couldn't roll it, I know I could easily get out if I had too, but would rather learn to roll it just in case.

I'm looking forward to a first 2 hour lesson with Liam for next Thursday.

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Franky » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:43 am

Just to clarify: when I wrote "never needing to roll is a LOT harder than rolling" I meant of course "never capsizing is a lot harder than rolling". Of course swimming is always an option, but not a welcome one!

I guess my point was that if you're good enough never to capsize, you're good enough to roll. If you've never capsized, you won't get a feel for how far you can push yourself *without* capsizing, and will always stay in your safety zone - which is fine, but doesn't give you "the skills to prevent a roll".

Also, trying to prevent a roll isn't always a good thing. "Preventing" implies you've already lost control, and you'll be working against the water's power trying to regain it. By rolling, you're following the motion of the water rather than fighting it.

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by Ian Dallaway » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:15 pm

Franky wrote:....Also, trying to prevent a roll isn't always a good thing. "Preventing" implies you've already lost control, and you'll be working against the water's power trying to regain it. By rolling, you're following the motion of the water rather than fighting it.
eh? "Preventing" a capsize doesn't necessarily mean you've lost control at all. In a dynamic river environment it may simply mean active or pro-active forward paddling (and all the little bits that go in to make that skill, such as dynamic balance etc.). I think that capsizing in rivers where you don't need to, especially in a white water environment - will put you that bit nearer to the rocks that can damage you.

OK, 'preventing a capsize' as seen on the various award syllabii, the candidate is expected to recover from an off balance situation as a test of skill. This is very much a reactive skill. Hopefully this gets further refined into a proactive skill as paddlers develop a greater understanding of paddling in that environment.
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by TechnoEngineer » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:04 pm

I like to see someone doing a draw stroke with proper shoulder rotation, a sculling draw, and a sculling brace before doing any roll teaching.
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by gp.girl » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:36 pm

Have fun on Thursday :)
I can roll :)

GraemeAsh
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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by GraemeAsh » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:01 pm

gp.girl wrote:Have fun on Thursday :)
Thank you :)

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by AS Watersports » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:22 pm

Hello,

Thanks for recommendation Just finished our second 1 - 1 session.

Not only was this his second lesson (in his 3rd hour of tuition) this was his 5th time in a sit in kayak! A real natural. Next step is to fine tune it but it's a great start.

Check the video

Perception 11 with no hip pads.

https://www.facebook.com/aswatersports/ ... =2&theater

Axiom 8.5
https://www.facebook.com/liam.kayak.1/v ... =2&theater

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by gp.girl » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:23 pm

Well done :)

After I'm not sure how long of trying I still can't do that!
I can roll :)

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by John K » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:13 pm

Nice work!

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Re: Beginner wants to learn to roll a kayak

Post by brevan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:27 am

Being able to roll gives you one more option to use in a particular situation.

It should be part of a range of skills, behaviour, planning and equipment to help reduce your risks and let you enjoy your paddling. If you only ever rely on one technique, then when you do get in the situation where it doesn't work (and it will happen), you are in trouble.

Even if you can roll, its worth practicing the other options regularly, so you have experience and confidence to use any of them when the time comes (Such as when you are back on the SIt on top, or in a Canoe)

Brevan

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