Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

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minty
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Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by minty »

Hi, I have a Mamba 8.1 ergo creek outfitting. Manufacturer specs reckon this weighs in at 21kg but it always feels heavy so I weighed it the other day and it is about 100g from 24kg (23.9kg on my digital scales)

Anyhow has anyone gone about reducing the weight of theirs? I am thinking of changing the footplate assembly to something simpler, maybe drilling some holes in the seat base with a hole saw, removing the oddment tray which I don't really use etc

Obviously I am not wanting to reduce the strength of components just lighten them a bit and I am sure it is probably over engineered.

Any positive thoughts welcome?

Cheers, Alick
Ambition and ability I've got too much of one and very little of the other

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banzer
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by banzer »

I can't help you with weight loss (!), but I would be pretty p***ed off if my new boat was nearly 3kg more than stated. Trade Description? Personally weight of boat is a major factor for walk-ins, so I need to know manufacturers are being honest...
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SPL
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by SPL »

Don't drill any holes, it will make no considerable difference to the weight and only reduce the boats strength and resale value.
I think your options are to either put up with it or sell it, its just the way dagger boats are, well made or over engineered depends on whose carrying it I suppose.
Regarding the advertised weight I imagine they advertised the weight of the smallest size boat.

Hakase
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Hakase »

SPL wrote:Don't drill any holes, it will make no considerable difference to the weight and only reduce the boats strength and resale value.
I think your options are to either put up with it or sell it, its just the way dagger boats are, well made or over engineered depends on whose carrying it I suppose.
Regarding the advertised weight I imagine they advertised the weight of the smallest size boat.
Drilling holes in the hull may make substantial improvements where weight is concerned.

kayak1
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by kayak1 »

Hi
It will be a lot heavier when you are wearing wet kit when paddling it, not to mention what kit you may be carrying in it as well!
I think Creek/river boats are heavy by the nature of the beast and its construction, I would be slightly concerned if I had a very light boat or modified one at that, that is going to protect me from rocks and get me down the river safely..

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DaveBland
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by DaveBland »

I feel your pain.
See http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... ht#p593328 and there's a more older post I can't be arsed to find now as it's bedtime. But some googlin will find it.
dave

minty
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by minty »

Thanks for replies. Cheers Dave the post on lightening was what I was looking for. I had a Bliss stick super rad a few years back and removed 2kg from it by drilling the seat and thigh braces. So I know that drilling can make an appreciable difference. I have similar thoughts on the footbrace as I have already weighed the components. Footplate and bars are 1500g, seat assembly is 3620g and so on. My thoughts are that there has to be room to remove some of that weight. I had not thought that the specified weight was for the smallest size but can see that. Again I am not complaining about the boat just looking to change it a bit. As for resale value I am not too bothered as the boat was not bought with a view to what I could sell it for when I am finished with it.

cheers, Alick
Ambition and ability I've got too much of one and very little of the other

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Neptune
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Neptune »

Minty,

You need to bare in mind that if you start to drill holes in you boat you may invalidate the warranty you have with Confluence Watersport.

Yew
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Yew »

Take out the existing seat, and make something from closed cell foam? that would be my suggestion.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Adrian Cooper »

The 8.3 is advertised at 23kg but both of the other sizes are stated as being 20kg.

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Simongelder
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Simongelder »

Yew wrote:Take out the existing seat, and make something from closed cell foam? that would be my suggestion.
Not sure about this option if the boat is being used on higher grade rivers. Surely the fitted seat is part of the structure and therefore a safety feature of the boat - not merely something to sit on? I would think about selling and buying a different boat.

Alternatively buy a second lighter boat and save the Mamba for the hard stuff. You can't have too many boats.......

SimonMW
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by SimonMW »

but I would be pretty p***ed off if my new boat was nearly 3kg more than stated. Trade Description?
If I recall it they left the weight spec figures from the old version of the Mamba and didn't seem to update them.
It will be a lot heavier when you are wearing wet kit when paddling it
I don't think there is much difference. I once tried this as it came up in another discussion. I decided to look like a wazzak and weighed myself with dry kit, and then sopping wet kit. The difference was negligible, and that was with kit that wasn't beading any more. Kayaking kit shouldn't absorb much water. At least I would hope not!

As others said, don't drill holes. Personally if the weight bothers you that much (and it bothered me. You can feel it on the water compared to other boats) I would sell up and get another boat. The Zet boats are much lighter at around 18kg (I've weighed my Veloc and it is pretty much bang on the paper spec). It may be one reason the Zets feel sporty.

There is also the new Ace of Spades that is about to be unleashed. I don't know the final weight, but apparently they were aiming for 16kg due to the advantages of blow moulding and their unique bulkhead design.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Adrian Cooper »

The Prijons are blow moulded and don't come in as light as 16kg.

SimonMW
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by SimonMW »

I'm just the messenger. 16kg is apparently what they were aiming for. It's probably more like 17-18 although they haven't released any full paper specs yet.

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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by SimonMW »

I shall now eat my words since apparently they said their first production line boat was around 22kgs!

Ah well. Still looks like a good boat, and the Zets are at least definitely around 18kg.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Adrian Cooper »

I thought I'd seen the weight somewhere but couldn't remember where. I didn't find it on their website, maybe on FB?

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Simon Westgarth »

SimonMW wrote:As others said, don't drill holes. Personally if the weight bothers you that much (and it bothered me. You can feel it on the water compared to other boats) I would sell up and get another boat. The Zet boats are much lighter at around 18kg (I've weighed my Veloc and it is pretty much bang on the paper spec). It may be one reason the Zets feel sporty.

There is also the new Ace of Spades that is about to be unleashed. I don't know the final weight, but apparently they were aiming for 16kg due to the advantages of blow moulding and their unique bulkhead design.
The Ace of Spades is currently 23.5 Kg if I recall correctly from their recent Facebook update.

Mark Dixon
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Mark Dixon »

I had an 8.1 Mamba and the one thing I noticed was carrying the thing around, especially for rerunning sections, I wasnt keen on it as a boat though. I have 2 Pyranha boats now and they're so much less weight to carry whichever one I paddle. The Mamba is a much better built boat IMO and pretty bombproof but I dont think its worth starting drilling holes, just sell it and buy a lighter one or put up with it if its a boat you like.
Mark

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Jim
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by Jim »

Would it help if you ditched the hull and got a composite one?

kayak1
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by kayak1 »

Kayaking kit shouldn't absorb much water. At least I would hope not!
I found that my deck, wet boots and BA were the worst culprits for weight added, but as you said the dry cag and helmet doesn't hold much water..apart from my SR Black gold helmet where I think it stores a gallon of water in the vents!... But do notice when hanging up the BA and deck when wet to dry on the line, there is a significant weight difference from dry..

minty
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by minty »

Thanks for all the feedback which seems to point toward "Don't drill the boat" I am going to stick it back together just now. I do believe though that if it is nearly 3kg above the specified weight that either the manufacturing tolerances are not too great or there is room to shave weight from it without affecting safety. ( I checked the website and the 8.1 creek is specified as 21kg so they are way out on the figures) I am not looking to change the kayak as it replaced a Nomad 8.5 which I really liked but thought it was just a bit big for me)

I also did not want to be posting in a week or two that I am looking for outfitting because i have ruined mine by drilling it ;-(

My other thoughts are if someone has a seat from a knackered boat they want to sell then I could still play around without wrecking my boat. So if you have a Mamba seat let me know.

Cheers, Alick
Ambition and ability I've got too much of one and very little of the other

swimboater
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Re: Cutting weight from Mamba 8.1

Post by swimboater »

minty wrote:Hi, I have a Mamba 8.1 ergo creek outfitting. Manufacturer specs reckon this weighs in at 21kg but it always feels heavy so I weighed it the other day and it is about 100g from 24kg (23.9kg on my digital scales)
I've not been weighing boats, but I have weighed my roof rack, uprights and paddle.
A pair of standard Thule 120cm bars (not aero bars) with foot pack for roof rails = 5kg
A pair of steel uprights = 2kg
Paddle (Werner Powerhouse 2m) = 1kg
Standard manufacturers roof loading for most cars is only 75kg (a few are rated at 100kg but normally only big estates)
Assuming you carry 3 boats and 3 paddles on your roof with uprights:
3 x manufacturers specification Mambas at 21kg each = 63kg
3 x over weight Mambas at nearly 24kg each = 72kg
Boats + paddles + roof rack + uprights = roof load
63kg + 3kg + 5kg + 2kg = 73kg (within standard roof loading limits)
72kg + 3kg + 5kg + 2kg = 82kg (the overweight boats could push the roof load to nearly 10% over its rating)

What does this mean in the real world?
Should we all weigh our boats and any others that we carry in an attempt to stay legal within roof load limits?
What are the potential consequences?
Will it stop me carrying 4 boats again?
Anyone ever been pulled over and had their roof weight checked?

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