If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Inland paddling
sundaykayaker
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by sundaykayaker » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:13 pm

Ok.. wateched the video again. At 1:19 the paddle and boat r sufficiently apart to say that there was a swim.
Drinking out of a shoe 1:30 the expression on face of disgust is Cleary visible.
As to the practice of drinking out of a shoe. though i have never seen done in real life amongst my pears. If I had the skill /balls to run such a fall. I would gladly drink just for the hell of it. Swim or no swim.
Overall. I love the video. It's well crafted To tell a story of a moment in a world-class paddlers life. :)

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morsey
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by morsey » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:04 pm

banzer wrote:I don't really see the point of the video
It serves well, in not giving the answer just suggestion, you make your own mind up. Paddlers it seems, from reading the thread, struggle to get passed the literal and physical application. That video, those close ups, those facial expressions are nothing to do with the functionality of rolling, it's not an instructional construct. The aerial view, the mistake, the reverse drop to oblivion, the camera panning away leaving the boat (possibly a paddler) stuck, alone, the nightmare threat of peer pressure, it invokes thoughts of the demons that you wrestle in your head. There are many possible angles they could be taking with this little film. It scores high in my book, but then I'm bored with point and shoot canoe porn**. It's like the difference between watching Disney cartoons* and Luc Besson deconstruct the internal mind of a serial killer and connect with the tiniest point of compassion in a person seemingly devoid of humanity!



*I love Disney cartoons, am a big fan of class A113
**And, of course I'll watch carnage kayaking till the cows come home

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Andrew Battye
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by Andrew Battye » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:45 pm

My uni club (Manchester) quite often do 'booty beers' after a trip, but its always optional and there is never any peer pressure involved. I see it as a bit of harmless fun which only brings the group closer together!
Recently we've introduced 'swim confessions' which take the form of an AA meeting with comically elaborate accounts of the swim in the pub afterwards, or on the club FB page if the swim happened on a private trip. They're mainly aimed at more experienced members and there's never any peer pressure to do one. I think being able to laugh at yourself is a great trait, the antithesis of 'macho' culture which exists in other sports!
Here's my most recent swim confession:
Hi everyone, I'm afraid I have a confession to make. On Saturday while at the river Moriston I suffered a terrifying and embarrassing swim. The day started well and I styled the top drop, descending unscathed while others were broken. I continued this form further down the river, with my smooth lines cause for many a compliment. It was when I reached what has been described as "the slide of death" that things took a turn for the worse. In my infinite wisdom I declined to scout the rapid, thinking I could remember the line from a previous trip. Instead of going down the smooth and forgiving right hand side I paddled to the left. The chossy mess of rock and water led me straight into the much feared "slot of doom", and try as I might, I could not escape from its watery embrace. Three times I rolled up, only to be pulled back over, and with my lungs screaming for air I reluctantly pulled my deck and exited my boat. This was not the end of my ordeal as the evil slot pulled my back towards it and tried to engulf me forever. But with a great effort I managed to swim free and make it to the bank just in time to run after my now pilotless boat. A booty beer later that day appeased the river gods for my grave error and made sure I survived to tell this epic tale.

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DaveBland
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by DaveBland » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:01 pm

One on my fave vids ever was the solo guy [in Devon?] who swam and went into the pub, ordered a pint and "bootied" there and then in the carpark.
No peer pressure there.

I'm all for swim confessions. Our local shop has a 'swim board' where epic tales are chalked up and the local forum has a swim board thread too. It'simportant to share.
dave

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Lancs_lad
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by Lancs_lad » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:45 pm

Not bothered about the peer pressure side of it.

I just think it's really pointless and a bit weird.

flipt
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by flipt » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:13 pm

Lancs_lad wrote:I just think it's really pointless and a bit weird.
To be fair, most non kayakers view kayaking as pointless and a bit weird....
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by Franky » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:59 pm

DaveBland wrote: I think you are missing my point, and possibly that could be the issue with you rolling or not on WW too.

A roll is a roll on WW or flat. The only real difference is in your head. Sure, on higher grades aerated water and slammed up against walls make a difference, but at G2/3 it's the same thing. 'Side' can make a difference, but when first learning to roll, everyone has a stronger side. Hell, I did my first 'off-side' roll the other day for four years.
I see your point, and I agree that in many cases "the only real difference is inside your head". Where we possibly disagree is in how easy it is to change your head :)

I am a cautious learner. I like to push myself, but at my own pace. There are people who took their 2* at the same time as me who subsequently raced ahead of me in their technique. I've slowly caught up and acquired more confidence in the process. I admire people who have a really gung-go attitude to learning a new skill, but I'll never be like that. I like a physical challenge but I'm not a risk-taker. I understand why people don't attempt to roll because for a long while I didn't either.
I would strongly recommend ignoring stuff like which way you are facing, the current and all that gubbins… just make sure you really bang your body into the set-up position - hard and fast - as soon as you are over. once in the correct position, a roll is a roll. The reason folks struggle more on moving water is lethargic set up. Their head is stuck on things like being upset they've gone over/the cold/the fact they can't breathe/which way the current is/where their friends are/the drop coming up… all sorts of crap that totally distract from getting set up in the roll position. Only then can you roll. After that, none of those other things in your head matter.
True, but people's heads work differently. Some people have the attitude whenever they try something new, "I'll be good at this in no time." Others need encouragement and time.

On one WW trip, my river leader complained that there were "no good people" in his group. I subsequently had a terrible trip. Being told I was crap was no incentive for me - sorry, but that's how my head works.
So… to my original point… there are many paddlers who can roll sometimes, certainly who are capable of giving it a go - who as soon as they flip, bail. It's these good people who I was suggesting that a bit of added incentive of a booty MAY help if it acts as a deterant from just pulling straight away.
I can only speak for myself, but there was never an occasion when the prospect of booty would have deterred me from bailing. I started trying to roll when I was confident that I had a greater than 50% chance of making it up.

If someone has a bombproof flatwater roll then I'd expect them to be able to try it on white water, but I can empathise with anyone who has an uncertain flatwater roll not even considering it on white water.

For what it's worth, my flatwater roll is near enough 100% and I always try to roll on white water.
Anyway, rant over. I really hope you get your roll sorted. The feeling of freedom from having a 100% bomber roll is the biggest step in progressing in this great sport.
Thanks.

One other thing worth mentioning: people have off days. I've had many - perhaps I didn't sleep well, I didn't have time to warm up properly, I was shaking off a cold, I had extra-paddling worries of one sort or another... On those days, my roll is less reliable and once you've swum once, the sheer physical strain and the cold, let alone the psychological blow, can make the rest of your session a struggle.

For example, my roll success rate last week on the Lee Valley Legacy course was 80%, but the week before that it was 0%.

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DaveBland
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by DaveBland » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:48 am

Hey great replies. Please don't think I was having a pop at you… the opposite. The head games with rolling is something I've been interested in for ages and was just trying to help. For me it's purely logical priorities. If you are upside-down in an unfriendly place the number one priority has to be to get back upright again. It's a far faster way to get you the air you need, plus it's the safest option. So then it's a simple step by step approach. What is the biggest most influential thing you can do to get yourself back up - and first time? That's set up for a roll… and so on.

Sounds like you are nearly there. Keep plugging away.

As for good and bad days… I have so many bad days they are now the new 'normal'. Best news about that is now I only have "normal" days or sometimes 'good' days!
dave

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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by alexpethybridge » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:15 pm

We had our Freshers Trip last weekend and bootie beers are part of what we do, no one is forced into it but most people partake. It doesn't matter how many times you swim on the day you still just do one beer and if a leader has anyone swim in their group they also have a beer. End result is almost everyone has a beer and it's all quite light hearted.

If someone is going to force you to drink a beer when you don't want to, are they really the sort of person you want to paddle with on a river?
Some days are diamonds

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Paula_V
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by Paula_V » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:52 pm

This is pretty illogical and superstitious I admit, but over time I have come to see the bootie beer as a sort of "penance" which endears you to the river gods and means that you don't suffer the same treatment the next time you paddle. A bit like not weeing in the river.

Total rubbish obviously, but we all have our rituals - whether its lucky paddling pants (not mentioning any names) or bootie beers.
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by DaveWortley » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:32 pm

This lovely lady will be at the Hurley Classic in 2 weeks time.

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banzer
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by banzer » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:22 pm

Who- Paula, or Marianne? The former being a much bigger draw, obviously!
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neilgilmour
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by neilgilmour » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:56 am

If nothing else, the threat of booty beers made me keep my booties scrupulously clean.

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Paula_V
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by Paula_V » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:47 am

banzer wrote:Who- Paula, or Marianne? The former being a much bigger draw, obviously!
Why thank you banzer ;-) as to the answer to the question - I believe it is both!

Hope to see lots of other UKRG users there too. There is lots for everyone, beginners included. Check it out: https://www.facebook.com/SasHurleyClassic
worldkayakblogs.com/paula

jiw123
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Re: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Post by jiw123 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:03 am

I've always found it really depends on the group you're paddling with.

During freshers trips with my club I've always found bootie beers where a good way to bring the club together and cheer up any new paddlers feeling disheartened that they swam a few times. That being said they're always done in good nature and the first bootie is usually done by an experienced paddler who's had a 'technical' (that is it say slipped off the bank, found the water a little deeper than expect or had a deck pop or something) or 'sh*t safety' (if none of the returners have swam) then followed by all the swimmers together usually cheered by the rest the club before heading inside to start that evening's party. Almost everyone takes part and the next day everyones keen for the river most cracking jokes about who'll be the first one to earn a bootie beer the next day! It draws a line under the swims in a very much 'you swam, but who cares did you boot, had a laugh and it's all good lets get back out there again' sort of way.

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