dee access

Inland paddling
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Chalky723
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Re: dee access

Post by Chalky723 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:01 pm

Here you go....

Image

C
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paddletastic2
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Re: dee access

Post by paddletastic2 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:02 pm

Chalky723 wrote:Here you go....

Image

C
Thanks, just thought that was ironic!

ChrisE
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Re: dee access

Post by ChrisE » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:13 pm

paddletastic2 wrote:
Chalky723 wrote:Here you go....

Image

C
Thanks, just thought that was ironic!
not so much as if they'd appeared on the 4pm one...

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: dee access

Post by Adrian Cooper » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:53 am

quicky wrote:Not one have mentioned the change in the law (which only any attorney general can do) to restrict access.
The attorney general cannot change the law. I think it was suggested that only he could bring a suit for public nuisance (or something)

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quicky
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Re: dee access

Post by quicky » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:25 pm

Yep sorry,

Only parliament (or Welsh Assembly) has the power to change the law, only the courts have the power to interpret the law.

The Attorney General has the exclusive right to bring court actions in defence of a public right.

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Re: dee access

Post by BristolBob » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:34 pm

The Attorney General has the exclusive right to bring court actions in defence of a public right.
That's not quite correct. You can bring an action for public nuisance (for example, obstruction of a public right of navigation) if you belong to a particular class of the public harmed by the nuisance. 'Particular class' is quite broad. If you were a pedestrian who fell over an unreasonable obstruction of a public road, you could sue in public nuisance, because 'pedestrian' is your particular class of person. I'm pretty sure 'kayaker' is a similar class.

If we wanted to, we could sue landowners who tried to stop us paddling.

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Re: dee access

Post by Dave Manby » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:30 am

https://medium.com/@chrispreperato/gaul ... 3e4ae21aad

SO let's make the Commercial case for access - this has been my view for years I stood up in front of some 800 people at a Mike Jones Rally in the school hall and suggested that we all buy our Christmas presents in Llangollen, we buy our petrol in Llangollen not further down the road where it is 2 p cheaper, that we should stop on our way through to N Wales and let the shop keepers publicans know we are paddlers.

We no longer have the huge Dee rallies - a good thing the town creaked and groaned under the pressure of 2,500 paddlers in town at the height of the MJ w/e: bars cafes and restaurants have to hire extra staff for one weekend etc. the car parking gets to be an issue the traffic grinds to a halt. The town would much prefer a steady supply of paddlers at all weekends. Sometimes I wonder about the ranting about access when I go down an paddle the Dee at a great level on sunny weekend evening and no one is on the water.

Lets make the point - turn up and paddle 18th October see http://www.davemanby.co.uk It is for a good cause too!

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Re: dee access

Post by DaveB » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:24 am

The web page says there is a gig at the sun inn. Rhewl or Trevor?

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: dee access

Post by Adrian Cooper » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:56 pm

Dave Manby wrote:Sometimes I wonder about the ranting about access when I go down an paddle the Dee at a great level on sunny weekend evening and no one is on the water.
Maybe people don't feel welcome so they go elsewhere where they think they are likely to get less aggro.

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Re: dee access

Post by Dave Manby » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:09 pm

DaveB wrote:The web page says there is a gig at the sun inn. Rhewl or Trevor?
The Sun Inn Llangollen on the corner where Bridge Street meets the A5. Also I hope that Sammy H Stephens will play some in the Ponsonby as well. Full program will be out soon - soooo much happening!

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Re: dee access

Post by DaveBland » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:07 pm

SimonMW wrote:You can of course leave a review of the Private Limited Company that organised this mess on their convenient Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Welsh-De ... 36?fref=ts
Verrry odd... seems the page is down/removed... or I've been blocked for being a bad boy. All I did was ask why they bothered having a FB page if they weren't going to communicate with the many users who had asked them nice questions?
dave

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Re: dee access

Post by kendomat » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:55 pm

I think this is one of those laws that the government or the courts don't really give a hoot about. It will just be an eternal argument between some unionist fisher association and rebel paddlers. Did anything ever come of those paddlers that were locked up at the dee that time years ago. And really has anyone ever been locked up and prosecuted since (apart from the those naughty boys who did the dam a few years back :) )
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quicky
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Re: dee access

Post by quicky » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:59 pm

Site apparently down after someone wrote something naughty....

Or maybe the sudden increase in comments on the pages...

Their 'access' officer still kept to his threats without saying how they will be implemented.
Tony: Dee Partnership,
We reserve the right to report you and you may get officially barred from the river.
_______________________________________
Andy:
I have not received a reply to my email to you dated 8th Sept which said...
-------------------
8th Sept
Hi Tony, Could you clarify who we will be reported to and what official or organisation will bar people.
-------------------
I hope you will be able to tell me also the law you are using to do this.
Thank you for your help.
_________________________________________
Tony: Dee Partnership,
Andy
There will be a statement on Facebook when I put it back up.
No direct answer to your question however.
Tony Bailey

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Re: dee access

Post by Pete K » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:28 pm

The last post on their FB page was a statement saying that the agreement was not just for commercial paddlers but represented an agreement for all water users.
I, and quite a few others, used the review feature to correct them and point out that they were bulls***ting. Something Iike 50 1 star reviews!

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Re: dee access

Post by Hakase » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:18 pm

quicky wrote:Site apparently down after someone wrote something naughty....

Or maybe the sudden increase in comments on the pages...

Their 'access' officer still kept to his threats without saying how they will be implemented.
Tony: Dee Partnership,
We reserve the right to report you and you may get officially barred from the river.
_______________________________________
Andy:
I have not received a reply to my email to you dated 8th Sept which said...
-------------------
8th Sept
Hi Tony, Could you clarify who we will be reported to and what official or organisation will bar people.
-------------------
I hope you will be able to tell me also the law you are using to do this.
Thank you for your help.
_________________________________________
Tony: Dee Partnership,
Andy
There will be a statement on Facebook when I put it back up.
No direct answer to your question however.
Tony Bailey
Tell him you don't approve of his attitude and reserve the right to officially bar him from the river?

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: dee access

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Pete K wrote:The last post on their FB page was a statement saying that the agreement was not just for commercial paddlers but represented an agreement for all water users.
We swimmers didn't (and still don't) agree to their "agreement". Just checked on FB for "Welsh Dee Partnership" and got: "No results found for your query.
Check your spelling or try another term."

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Pete K
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Re: dee access

Post by Pete K » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:46 am

Should someone now re-register the name on Facebook and use the page to post up factual and legal info.

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Voodoo
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Re: dee access

Post by Voodoo » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:04 pm

This Facebook page was closed temporarily because it has been subjected to extremist views from certain members of the canoeing fraternity who have made allegations of fraud and wrong-doing – which are completely without foundation.

The basic principle behind Welsh Dee Partnership (WDP) has always been to ‘park at the door’ differences in opinion concerning the law and navigation rights in order to improve relations between canoeists and anglers.

We will continue with that primary aim on behalf of the moderate parties from both sides.


We are not prepared to spend our small budget in dealing with the extremist views of either anglers or canoeists and respectfully suggest that those individuals who feel strongly about these matters, direct their views to other Web sites / discussion forums which have been set up for this purpose.

I (as Access Co-ordinator) have been instructed not to enter into any further eMail correspondence or Facebook responses, so that the small budget under which we operate can be used for the purposes for which WDP was originally set up.

We will be closing our Facebook page within 24hours and making any further announcements via our Web site – www.welshdeepartnershipltd.co.uk.

New on the FB page ,

I really don't know to laugh or cry at them, I am seeing this more and more as a thin end of the wedge that's about to get hammered in very soon,
This is not the repose you are looking for ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: dee access

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:35 pm

Just looked at their website, still Rule 16. No wild swimming.

Nothings changed. Will still ignore them.

Ho hum

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Pete K
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Re: dee access

Post by Pete K » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:12 pm

Page still up if anyone wants to review it: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Welsh-De ... 1292710036

flipt
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Re: dee access

Post by flipt » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:37 pm

Hi All, to support the existence of PRN on the Dee, i am looking to try and obtain as much information as possible of all occasions of boat usage on the welsh section of the Dee. If any of you know of any or have some old photos knocking around, please please send them through here or email me gradientfood@gmail.com

On a more current issue, please consider taking the time to sign the petition to withdraw splash funding from the welsh dee partnership whom are trying hard to restrict usage here; https://www.change.org/p/natural-resour ... artnership
Gradientfood.com - a sandwich bar in Llangollen.

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: dee access

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:49 pm

flipt wrote: please consider taking the time to sign the petition to withdraw splash funding from the welsh dee partnership whom are trying hard to restrict usage here
Done :-)

Shared this on my FB timeline.

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Re: dee access

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Well, Welsh Dee Partnership have had my Llangollen thread on my FB timeline removed - the Corporate State in action. They must be rattled if they are picking on a private individual. In other words corporate censorship. Should the mods approve, I'll show all the pics in my Llangollen album including the rude one!

I'm doubly intent on taking part in Dave Manby's event

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flipt
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Re: dee access

Post by flipt » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:40 pm

Hey all, following my meeting with Tim Jones - a Director of Natural Resource Wales, i have sent an open reply regarding funding of Welsh Dee Partnership - you can read it here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ditU ... sp=sharing

For information, Tim tells me that they are presently conducting an in depth review of the application, financing and results of their involvement with Welsh Dee Fishing/Partnership.
Gradientfood.com - a sandwich bar in Llangollen.

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Mark R
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Re: dee access

Post by Mark R » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:15 pm

I've just read through your letter; simply fantastic work.

Couple of glitches; gauge is spelt incorrectly at one point, and you talk about 1700 signatories at the start, but 1600 later. Hope that is helpful, keep up the good work.
Mark Rainsley
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Re: dee access

Post by MikeVeal » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:10 am

I agree with Mark.
The letter, the petition the time and effort you've thrown at this, just incredible.

I've never paddled the Dee, but that's irrelevant, a "very well done Sir" to you and sincere thanks.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: dee access

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:18 am

Hear, hear!

66quinny66
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Re: dee access

Post by 66quinny66 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:54 pm

Many thanks for your efforts/input flipt

flipt
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Re: dee access

Post by flipt » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:20 pm

Thanks guys!

Yeah I spotted my errors as soon as I'd sent the email / uploaded the letter. That's what I get for leaving the petition open and only part updating the numbers!

Hopefully NRW will take notice and more importantly act!
Currently I'm writing a related letter to the other scheme supporters and the local AM so hopefully they will take notice too and show support for the general public rather than just the loudest angriest minority.
Gradientfood.com - a sandwich bar in Llangollen.

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Re: dee access

Post by chriscw » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:07 am

Of course no public money should be spent on schemes to restrict paddling on rivers as legally they are all public navigations. the same goes for signs at access and egress points if landowners and angling interests wish to erect signs advertising access and egress points that is fine as long as the signs do not make any claims about allowing navigations as that is already a legal right. I don't even see a problem if the sign is on private land if there are dates when the Access/egress point is not available marked on them.

We need to be careful though there is no particular reason why public money or lottery funding should not go towards schemes to help anglers. After all there are many shiny new club houses up and down the country built for various canoe clubs with public and or lottery grants. If anglers can get grants towards work needed to help them gain access to their swims that is great and I hope we all applaud it. Personally I disapprove of angling I think it is a cruel pastime but as long as it is still legal they should be on the same footing as other hobbies.
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Paddling Interests:
Touring, Coaching Beginners (I am an L2K), Surf White water trips, Weir Play (I'm not good enough to put freestyle!)

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