The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

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Lancs_lad
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The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Lancs_lad » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:37 pm


AlexC
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by AlexC » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:22 pm

&%$£ me.

Wow, just wow.

Loved the guy in below the next drop just bimbling around.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by AlexC » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:24 pm

methinks Dave ought to find some other people to paddle with...
Last edited by AlexC on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by jam bo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:25 pm

Looks like they had more cameras than throw lines.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Fr0d0nk » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:37 pm

Just so that what is on everyones mind is said....
This is normal flows, a known rapid, and accurately described in any relevant guidebook. It has towback and a series of rocks river right where the flow goes through them. Credit for uploading, but OMG I would reccomend safety training for any extreem sport.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by quicky » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:54 pm

Does anyone else teach escape techniques to try if you get stuck? I know in the heat of the moment they might go out of the window but we always used to coach people on what to try and what could happen if your stuck.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Chalky723 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:55 pm

What's the point of "Shouty Man" standing where he is & not having a throw rope? What earthly purpose does he serve?

Scary.

Lucky Dave!

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by SwamP » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:59 pm

DICKS!

that is all
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:25 pm

Ummm Live Bait?....

Someone mentioned there being a siphon there. Is that true?
Last edited by TechnoEngineer on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by jamiemagee » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:30 pm

Received a similar response on Facebook. The camera guy really needed a throw line

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by quicky » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:33 pm

Sounded more like the guy calling for his dog on youtube even with the swearing in the center. (as that will help the guy grab the line of course)

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by SimonMW » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:56 am

Go further back than the rescue. Or lack of it. The maths goes like this:

- Pencil off drop with no attempt to boof or put in a key stroke = bad.

Ability to boof = smiley cool looking landing for the camera. No rescue needed.*

*I say this as an idiot who got recirced in the same manner on an equally straightforward drop elsewhere in the country...

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Jim » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:07 am

The strange thing is I was on the river the same day, we paddled with the lads some of the time but caught up to them at letterbox just after they got Dave out.

All perfectly likeable chaps, not much wrong with their paddling, but they admitted to not having much river running experience. I certainly hope we showed them a few ways to protect stuff after that, which hopefully they have remembered and adapted to fit other situations.

There were only 2 of us on the river + one on the bank with my camera, it was my first time trying to run waterfalls in my canoe and I took a lot of swims - the lads actually helped me a few times by holding my canoe in an eddy whilst I climbed out to empty it (I could have managed without them but why turn down help?).

It was their first time on the Etive, and apart from the bad scare at letterbox they went away buzzing and a bit wiser, and with some understanding of what they needed to learn - because lets face it, it can be hard to identify the things you don't know in order to learn them....

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Jim » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:15 am

SimonMW wrote:Go further back than the rescue. Or lack of it. The maths goes like this:

- Pencil off drop with no attempt to boof or put in a key stroke = bad.

Ability to boof = smiley cool looking landing for the camera. No rescue needed.*

*I say this as an idiot who got recirced in the same manner on an equally straightforward drop elsewhere in the country...
I know the drop pretty well, and I can see that the problem was not a lack of attempt to boof, it was about mis-judging the depth and how it can hang you up, slow you down and start you spinning towards the centre of the drop. I think if you look he did attempt a boof stroke (not on the ideal side) but it bounced out of the water because he got slowed down which screwed his timing up making his stroke early into the shallow water instead of reaching over the edge.

I have seen a lot of better boaters get caught out just as badly on this drop for exactly those reasons - I've even dented my Topo on it, although I have somehow managed not to swim there, although the secret to that is probably that I normally portage it, I would only consider running it at much higher flows these days because I'm too heavy and would definitely hang up on the lip, maybe even stop dead at that level.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Lancs_lad » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:54 am

I have messed up there when I was learning also. Also with not much river experience. I didn't swim but got worked towards the boulders on the right. I ended up climbing out my boat from there.

I posted the vid as I thought it was worthy of going viral!

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by SimonMW » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:03 am

I think if you look he did attempt a boof stroke (not on the ideal side) but it bounced out of the water because he got slowed down which screwed his timing up
What I saw was a paddler paddling towards the drop, and then when he got near the edge or so he stopped paddling and did an air brace. There was no serious attempt at any form of boof or key stroke other than a vague glance of the paddle off the surface. But it certainly wasn't a concerted timed attempt at a proper stroke, just a continuation of his continuous paddle strokes towards the edge.

I know it is easier said than done and I'm by no means perfect myself, but the paddler in question just did the typical air brace and pencil.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Neptune » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:21 am

He messed up his approach and got caught out, who else hasn’t done this at some point.

However, the "Shouty Man" up top with the camera on his head should have had a throw bag ready and had a line to him immediately instead of screaming at the other two who were not in a position to help. They appear to have been were way too slow, inept and unprepared in the circumstances.

Scary to watch the poor guy getting such a trashing considering how low the level was.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by banzer » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:14 am

I got a trashing in the first Crack at low levels. Tripped up on the scrapey entry and did laps in the surprisingly retentive diagonal stopper. Also people tend to get nailed on Polldubh at low flows when the central rock sends them the wrong way. Easily done!

Well done to these folks for having the courage the post up their video.
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Jim » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:50 am

banzer wrote:I got a trashing in the first Crack at low levels. Tripped up on the scrapey entry and did laps in the surprisingly retentive diagonal stopper.
Yep, and like many other inexperienced groups most of them got out river left to scout Crack of Doom, so I showed them how much eaiser it is to protect that hole from the ledge on river right with a paddle and a line for backup. I normally part portage that, seal launching from the ledge (or just above when it's covered) when I have finished doing safety cover - I did that day!

That hole is not only retentive but deep when you consider the depth of the lead in - I've known some big guys expect to be able to get a foot down in there to help them push out of it and be surprised to find they can't...
banzer wrote:Well done to these folks for having the courage the post up their video.
Absolutely, we've all made mistakes!

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Poke » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:24 pm

Agree with Banzer. Everyone makes mistakes. Its pretty brave to post them online where you’re likely to be on the receiving end of lots of abuse.

If we’d taken a useable video footage of my bro’s accident in Scotland and stuck that online, I’d have expected a reasonable bashing for various mistakes we made there.

Also, I’ve paddled with some of the guys in the infamous Corsica Travo video. They’re all very experienced paddlers, but it looks like a shambles if you look back at the video:


Going back to the Etive, you’ve got to assume that they’ve all learned from the experience, and I’m fairly sure that posting the video online will have served as a reminder to many that any time you’re out of your boat you should have your rope in your hand.
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by SwamP » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:06 pm

Anyone commenting on the paddlers ability is missing the point....no one came out the womb donkey flipping.

But the last time I saw such nonexistent safety a girl die two days later.

That rapid has a rescue point 1meter from the hole, another 2m from the hole and so on.

Talent and river knowledge have nothing to do with a sport the punishes the stupid!....trust me, I know.
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by SimonMW » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:21 pm

Anyone commenting on the paddlers ability is missing the point....no one came out the womb donkey flipping.
I agree with you SwamP, however it cannot be denied that improving skills and paddling within your capabilities is an important aspect of safety. If the stickiness of the feature is known, then if good skill at going off ledges and reading the entry isn't present then maybe a second thought should be given?

That's a good reason why I walked the tall weir on the Mellte. Even though I knew I had the skill to boof the ledge, I had already had a bad day and didn't want to risk blowing it and doing what the guy above did. The tow back is well known there if you cock it. The river was above my grade in places and I merely survived it.

Nobody likes their paddling to be criticised, but sometimes you have to be honest about it, especially if you are going to post up footage of such an incident publicly. And I say this as someone who once had their lack of paddling skills on a video posted up here out of the blue and very minutely dissected by Mr Westgarth a few years back! But actually I appreciated it. Everything he said was undeniable, and it helped, even if it was a bit embarrassing.

This whole episode illustrates that safety starts right at the beginning. Yes, better safety should have been set up, particularly if they knew the skill level of the guy it happened to. But if the nature of the tow back and recirculating potential is famous on that drop and known, the whole safety aspect goes right back to accounting for the skill level of the paddler and whether they have a good chance of clearing it. If they are a serial "penciller" then surely it might have been better to walk it? Especially since the paddler running the drop should be happy with the safety that has been set up before running it.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Kayak-Bloke » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:55 pm

What is it they say:
Experience is something you get just after you needed it.

The mind blowing bit is the guy got out of his boat. Stood adjacent to the feature but the only reason he deemed he was there was to get footage.
I'm certain they learnt valuable lessons.
Pretty much all I saw in that footage was evidence in support of Darwin's theory of evolution.

Remember that recent footage that did the rounds of the pin on the Erme?
The support ferry the flow, are out of their boats in an instant and react as a team in the time required. I bet even they reflected on what they could do better? No doubt about it that's a gorup I'd paddle with (if they'd let me!).
These guys though....
It's like watching the opposite of that incident. Nothing but luck that it turned out ok.

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by DaveBland » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:43 pm

I find it quite amazing that with all the info out there, this group was so shockingly ill informed.
But to be fair, we've all gone through 'adventures' that we've learned from. Looking back, even having a throw bag was an exotic piece of kit at one time.
However with all the info and knowledge out there these days there's little excuse for getting it that wrong. Especially as they were able to post it up online, that would suggest a competance at watching paddling vids etc.

It seemed that Dave the swimmer was swimming the wrong way too? Not a nice place to swim, but still.
I know the Etive at low flows isn't too hardcore, but there seemed to be no attempt at a roll, and as you say, not any awareness of safety setup.

Glad everyone was ok in the end and good on them for posting, but dissapointingly poor.
dave

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Lancs_lad » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:49 pm

I wonder how many hits I have helped them get? Can't see on vimeo like YouTube. Just need kayaksession to pick it up now ;)

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by DaveBland » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:55 pm

Lancs_lad wrote:I wonder how many hits I have helped them get? Can't see on vimeo like YouTube. Just need kayaksession to pick it up now ;)
it was going round FB for a day or so before I saw it here. And that's in N. America. But I am sure UKRGB will have massively added to them hit count.
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by TechnoEngineer » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:14 pm

Could you suggest that a 4+ effectively becomes a 5 when there is insufficient cover?
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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Chalky723 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:55 pm

Lancs_lad wrote:I wonder how many hits I have helped them get? Can't see on vimeo like YouTube. Just need kayaksession to pick it up now ;)
Vid seems to have gone now....

They probably got fed up with the slating!!

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by Lancs_lad » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:48 pm

I have a copy ;-)

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Re: The Etive spanking a paddler at monstrous flows!!!

Post by ben89 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:16 pm

Lancs_lad wrote: I have a copy ;-)

I don't like that you have copied this video it was there choice to put it online and when they want to take it down then fair enough. I understand once somethings on the net then its hard for it to not be etc. but...
Lancs_lad wrote: I wonder how many hits I have helped them get?
I just don't understand your motivations for putting this up?

and the sarcastic post title... seems to me you enjoy this sort of video?

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