sacrilege

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sundaykayaker
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sacrilege

Post by sundaykayaker » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:37 pm

Is it sacrilege to suggest that boats being designed and developed in the last 2yrs are just too heavy. all exceeding +20kg mark.
Load them with some equipment and they are Bxxxxdy heavy to carry any distance. Please Mr CONFLUENCE WATERSPORTS have a Heart. Your Next task if you choose to except it is to innovate light weight designs.

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Re: sacrilege

Post by SandfordSailor » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:09 pm

Try paddling OC1, then thank your lucky stars ;-)

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banzer
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Re: sacrilege

Post by banzer » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:27 pm

The current fashion is massive boats. It makes things, on the whole, easier to paddle with less skill necessary.

Fifteen years ago everyone paddled rivers in playboats. You can still do that if you like! Or for a relatively lightweight creek boat that will fit a six footer, try the smaller Magnum, just a shade over 17 kgs. (Or a Spud.) Maybe not first choice for the Stikine or Norway, but for 99% of UK boating they're just fine.

Agree with you that lightweight but stronger plastic would be good.
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SimonMW
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Re: sacrilege

Post by SimonMW » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:37 pm

If any of the Magnums are 17kg or even in the vicinity of it I'll eat my kayak!!

http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/sho ... ype=Kayaks

At 22kg, you're a shade out! Puzzled as to why you think they wouldn't be suited to the world class runs. Steve Fisher used a Magnum for years, and Ben brown still does.

Now a Zet kayak on the other hand. They're light.

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Jim
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Jim » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Last 2 years?
It's the main reason it took me so long to get a creek boat.
I still don't carry it anywhere, it's too heavy - I walk in with my spud instead, or suck it up and take a playboat.

There probably is room for a middle ground - not everyone that wants a big volume boat necessarily wants to run huge drops onto rocks, in which case they don't need to be hauling all the extra weight around, but if you want to take hits, I guess you do need the weight?

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DaveBland
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Re: sacrilege

Post by DaveBland » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:21 am

There's deffo an argument for lighter spec boats. I'd like to see manufacturers make 'lightweight' versions of existing boats using thinner plastic and less intensive outfitting. The majority of paddlers use creek boats on grade 3+ which these would be fine for.
i'd rather risk a lighter boat on bigger grade stuff and not mess up in the first place [because obviously, any errors are down to a heavy boat, not me].
Let the paddlers decide what's 'strong enough'.
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scottdog007
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Re: sacrilege

Post by scottdog007 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:42 am

The other thing that gets me down is how some boats just cut into your shoulders when being carried them, because the manufacturers didn't design in a decent cockpit lip. Except my Raptor, even when full with kit it is excellent to carry.

As for my old Burn, the cocklip lip is like a knife digging into the shoulder.

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Re: sacrilege

Post by Dave Manby » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:37 am

The boats are too heavy so moan but when the boats were lighter everyone moaned that they break! A manufacturer makes a lighter creek boat it breaks he get a bad rep everyone buys other makes. Go figure!

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nick 16
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Re: sacrilege

Post by nick 16 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:47 am

I've got the new lettmann granate XL 90 plus gallon boat that floats very high to say im over 16 stone its a big boat being nearly as long as the remix 79, it doesn't weigh anywhere near as much as my remix did even though its a fair bit bigger, but the outfitting is really simple and light. Problem is all that faffy outfitting that you dont even need leg lifters and all that jazz pah!

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RizzRat
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Re: sacrilege

Post by RizzRat » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:42 am

See carrying it as an extra work out - defo required as general boating does not raise the heart rate anywhere near enough to really be counted as cardio!!! :)

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Re: sacrilege

Post by banzer » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:49 am

SimonMW wrote:If any of the Magnums are 17kg or even in the vicinity of it I'll eat my kayak!!

http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/sho ... ype=Kayaks

At 22kg, you're a shade out! Puzzled as to why you think they wouldn't be suited to the world class runs. Steve Fisher used a Magnum for years, and Ben brown still does.

Now a Zet kayak on the other hand. They're light.
I'm talking about the smaller one which I've seen quoted as 17.1 kg. Fisher and Brown use(d) the bigger one. The smaller one is too tail squirty for punching through stuff and doesn't hold its speed so well (but is very nimble and perfect for the UK).
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Wadhamite » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:09 am

This is the reason I haven't bought myself a bigger boat - if it's heavier than a GT, I just can't carry it. The bloody bruises it leaves on your shoulders after a long carry in aren't great either, so I can't imagine how bad a 20kg boat would be.
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Re: sacrilege

Post by SimonMW » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:22 am

The smaller Magnum is definitely not 17kg chap. I've carried one and my shoulder knows! You can see by the specs on the link I posted that it is in fact well over 20kg. One of my friends sold his Magnum 73 (the "small one") because it was so heavy.

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Sickboy
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Sickboy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:38 am

Maybe the manufacturers could get away with using thinner plastic on smaller sizes? I know Eskimo did LW versions of some of their playboats (black Kendo for sure) and Pyranha used to do Team boats with less plastic before the advent of carbon composite playboats for the 'team'.

I'm a size large sorta bloke and thus I know that any boat other than a playboat is going to be pretty hefty, just have to suck it up along with the pies.

Nobody has mentioned the whole ramming rocks on purpose thing, otherwise known as boofing.....

Also, did any of the new Burn owners weigh the outfitting when it fell out? Would be interesting to know.
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Neptune
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Neptune » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:08 am

When I split my second Nomad, Confluence Watersports agreed to replace it as it was still in warrenty, on the proviso that I returned the hull of the split boat to them.

I stripped out all of the outfitting for spares before returning the hull to Dagger Europe to collect my new Nomad (how exciting). It was surprising just how light the shell of the hull was without any of the outfitting in it.

My son paddles a Jefe Grande as a C1. He removed the seat and some of the other outfitting to fit his own saddle made out of mini-cell foam and some strapping, bindings as thigh braces and a quick release system of his own design. Again, what a difference in the weight, so much lighter.

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mantamx
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Re: sacrilege

Post by mantamx » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:22 am

i would definitely rather have the boat a few k heavier than more prone to breaking.. (and i occasionally do expeditions where boats need to be carried for 2 days, with 5 days worth of supplies..). this is not even a factor imo for 'normal' paddling (having a little pad you put on your shoulder also helps - i sometimes use the sponge for that, makes a surprising amount of difference)

but speaking of weight - zets 10-15% lighter - veloc is 18k (yet has excellent reputation for durability), raptor 19..

Hakase
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Hakase » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 am

I paddle a Necky Jive -- every time I pick up a modern boat, I'm always surprised by how light it is...

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Re: sacrilege

Post by Randy Fandango » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:51 am

I paddle a mk1 Burn and drive a landrover so whatever I paddle has to be a boat I can put on and off the roofrack on my own.
I tried a large Shiva and (while being fairly surprised at how much I liked the boat) immediately discounted it from my list of potential new boats as there's no way in this world I could lift the damned thing up above my head and stick it on my roofrack.
I'm not sure I'll ever be able to paddle a new creek boat again.....
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Jim
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Jim » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:02 pm

Sickboy wrote:Nobody has mentioned the whole ramming rocks on purpose thing, otherwise known as boofing.....
We're supposed to take that as a joke right?

i.e. observational comedy based on some technique you have seen people using when they can't actually boof?

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Re: sacrilege

Post by Randy Fandango » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:59 pm

Jim wrote:
Sickboy wrote:Nobody has mentioned the whole ramming rocks on purpose thing, otherwise known as boofing.....
We're supposed to take that as a joke right?

i.e. observational comedy based on some technique you have seen people using when they can't actually boof?
Could be some fairly honest self-analysis perhaps?? :-)
Giles

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Sickboy
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Re: sacrilege

Post by Sickboy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:50 pm

Randy Fandango wrote:
Jim wrote:
Sickboy wrote:Nobody has mentioned the whole ramming rocks on purpose thing, otherwise known as boofing.....
We're supposed to take that as a joke right?

i.e. observational comedy based on some technique you have seen people using when they can't actually boof?
Could be some fairly honest self-analysis perhaps?? :-)
Giles
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banzer
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Re: sacrilege

Post by banzer » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:42 pm

SimonMW wrote:The smaller Magnum is definitely not 17kg chap. I've carried one and my shoulder knows! You can see by the specs on the link I posted that it is in fact well over 20kg. One of my friends sold his Magnum 73 (the "small one") because it was so heavy.
OK not having put it on the scales I'll take your word for it. However I'm sure that the amount of plastic Dom scraped off mine when he took it for an epic on the Fort Augustus Doe, left it somewhere around the 17 kg mark! :-)
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66quinny66
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Re: sacrilege

Post by 66quinny66 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:25 am

It's summer, it's dry, rivers are low! Keep paddling and your boat will eventually get lighter!!

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