Lee Valley - assessments

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Neilo
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Neilo » Sun May 04, 2014 7:09 am

Or, might I suggest, watching someone else
Going down in a sprint boat would be interesting....
;-)

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Sun May 04, 2014 7:29 am

Neilo wrote:Or, might I suggest, watching someone else
Going down in a sprint boat would be interesting....
;-)
I'll have ago.......
(If I can borrow someone else's sprint boat) :-)
Giles

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Neilo
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Neilo » Sun May 04, 2014 9:25 am

. . . . . . . . borrow ?
Take and use (something belonging to someone else) with the intention of returning it:
I suppose it does't clarify it's return state.

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Sun May 04, 2014 9:30 am

Neilo wrote:. . . . . . . . borrow ?
Take and use (something belonging to someone else) with the intention of returning it:
I suppose it does't clarify it's return state.
Plenty of life experience has taught me that the word 'borrow' can cover so much more than it's dictionary definition.... :-)
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by OliKershaw » Sun May 04, 2014 8:07 pm

Just out of interest Giles, do you know what qualifications you need to be signed off to coach on each of the courses?

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Sun May 04, 2014 8:24 pm

OliKershaw wrote:Just out of interest Giles, do you know what qualifications you need to be signed off to coach on each of the courses?
Not a clue I'm afraid :-)
A friend of mine who's an old school BCU level 3 inland coach (without 5 star) is registered to coach at LV but I think she's only able to coach on the legacy.
I can coach and assess on both courses as both an LV employee and as a private coach and I (according to the BCU anyway) am an aspirant level 5.
LV's own staff go through an in-house training programme to be able to coach and assess on both courses so don't necessarily have to hold the same BCU quals that an outside coach might need.
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by siwiles » Sun May 04, 2014 8:43 pm

Glad I did mine last year. Would have been a total waste of time to spend a day on the legacy course. .. Not being funny but the legacy course is a little tame for my liking, and the Olympic course is the reason for going. . I'd agree that for most paddlers who were there that day were there for the legacy. Also beware they they hire the legacy or for exclusive club use sometimes so you may not even be able to get on it whilst waiting for your Olympic assessment.

I war very impressed with the Olympic course. Lots of good play spots not many paddlers and the rafts were not too bad.

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Jim » Sun May 04, 2014 11:14 pm

I don't understand why you would need raft support on a short artificial WW course? :)

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Mon May 05, 2014 8:38 am

Jim wrote:I don't understand why you would need raft support on a short artificial WW course? :)
:-)
I find they work perfectly to remind me of the things I dislike about being a kayaker on a rafting trip:
On fast wave-train sections they bare down on you faster than you can escape then having overtaken you/run you down, they spin round to surf a hole and transform effortlessly into a mobile strainer :-)
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Wadhamite » Mon May 05, 2014 9:56 am

Randy Fandango wrote: I find they work perfectly to remind me of the things I dislike about being a kayaker on a rafting trip:
On fast wave-train sections they bare down on you faster than you can escape then having overtaken you/run you down, they spin round to surf a hole and transform effortlessly into a mobile strainer :-)
Giles
My boyfriend describes that bit as being 'run over by a bus'.
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by morsey » Mon May 05, 2014 10:36 pm

Rafts are handy for prompting rests, and for making people 'Get better at paddling.'

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Jim » Wed May 07, 2014 11:15 pm

Randy Fandango wrote:
Jim wrote:I don't understand why you would need raft support on a short artificial WW course? :)
:-)
I find they work perfectly to remind me of the things I dislike about being a kayaker on a rafting trip:
On fast wave-train sections they bare down on you faster than you can escape then having overtaken you/run you down, they spin round to surf a hole and transform effortlessly into a mobile strainer :-)
Giles
You're hiring the wrong raft support :-)

I have had a few narrow misses with support rafts (usually I was chatting with them before the rapid and then like you say, putting adequate distance between you to account for the way rafts and kayaks or canoes lose or gain speed in a rapid can be difficult), but there is a video clip somewhere where you can see me clip an eddyline in the canoe and spin out in front of the paddle raft. You can also see the paddle raft apply the brakes to miss me, the oar rig the video was shot from also slowed down to avoid the impending pile up! It takes a while to get a 14 foot canoe back up to speed after 360ing on a boil, I caused quite a traffic jam :-)

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Thu May 08, 2014 6:39 am

My first experience of kayaking with rafts for a whole trip was in Neoal on the Bhote Khosi and I'd tagged along so there wasn't a group of paddlers -- just one safety kayak, three rafts full of members of the Ghurka regt and me.
I'd never paddled it (or looked at it) before and I quickly found the rafts either ran me down if I tried to follow the safety kayak or occasionally became hung up on rocky stretches, forcing me to make ferocious breakouts I'd rather have not or shoot straight underneath (no thank you!)
I ended up watching the other paddler head into the start of each stretch, watching the rafts do the same (often a totally different line) then waiting a bit before crossing my fingers and following down -- and of course no chance at all of getting out to scout anything.
I made an occasional creative line but it was better than getting tangled up with the rafts.
I found much the same thing on all the other Himalayan rivers I paddled as a tag-on to a raft group.
Great fun all in all but for choice I wouldn't paddle that way again.
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Natalie » Thu May 08, 2014 7:38 am

I think the raft-free session (3:00 - 4:00) is a brilliant idea. I never go any other time. You definitely get way more paddling in.

I just hope the powers that be keep it raft-free. :)

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Sun May 18, 2014 8:29 am

As of this weekend more Olympic assessments have been added in with alternate hours of Legacy then Olympic assessments.
Yesterday for instance I assessed Legacy at 10.00, Olympic at 11.00, Legacy at 12.00, Olympic at 1.00, Legacy at 2.00 and Olympic at 3.00 -- or I would have if every session had had punters.
It worked very well and suggests that the powers that be are aiming to provide what paddlers actually want at LV.
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Mark Dixon » Sun May 18, 2014 9:12 pm

Randy Fandango wrote:As of this weekend more Olympic assessments have been added in with alternate hours of Legacy then Olympic assessments.
Yesterday for instance I assessed Legacy at 10.00, Olympic at 11.00, Legacy at 12.00, Olympic at 1.00, Legacy at 2.00 and Olympic at 3.00 -- or I would have if every session had had punters.
It worked very well and suggests that the powers that be are aiming to provide what paddlers actually want at LV.
Giles
Now that is a very good idea, living 15 minutes from Dartmoor I have yet to paddle on an artificial course other than Treweryn and certainly wouldnt come to London to paddle a grade 2/3 all day waiting for an assessment. My brother lives in St Albans which I believe is not too far away so 1 day I may yet paddle LV.
Mark

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon May 19, 2014 3:52 pm

I have to admit I've not felt inspired to paddle at LV but just in case I do, is it OK to paddle a trad canoe, and what would be the assessment criteria to let me on the course?

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon May 19, 2014 4:09 pm

I've seen esquifs being used on the Legacy course.
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon May 19, 2014 4:23 pm

L'edge, Pocket Canyon or Avalon?

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon May 19, 2014 4:26 pm

XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Mon May 19, 2014 4:27 pm

Actually I have a feeling they don't allow trad o/cs on the legacy course as in quite a few places they're longer than the course is wide and they're concerned about making an ad hoc strainer with a boat broached between the plastic blocks on both sides.
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Jones Chris » Wed May 21, 2014 7:14 am

How about squirt boats Giles? I'm probably more comfortable in my Submarine than in my float boat these days. Any reason why a few of us can't potter down from Notts and do the assessments half underwater?

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Randy Fandango » Wed May 21, 2014 6:41 pm

Jones Chris wrote:How about squirt boats Giles? I'm probably more comfortable in my Submarine than in my float boat these days. Any reason why a few of us can't potter down from Notts and do the assessments half underwater?

Chris
Interesting one Chris. Do you know I'm not sure if I've ever seen a squirt boat at LV.
To be honest, the centre may well have a policy about you squirty types but if so I don't know what it is. I would imagine to be sure you would need to speak to Dan, the head of canoeing and kayaking (the reception staff are lovely but usually not really paddlers so probably couldn't give you an accurate answer).
My gut feeling (although I'm not a squirt-ist myself) is that the course in its current configuration doesn't perhaps have much to offer squirt boaters maybe?
Both courses in their different ways are really about power and bouncy waves and stoppers and both lack those two features I believe squirt paddlers love: clean seams and depth.
I remember chatting about this with Jamie a couple of years back who reckoned the run-out from the Olympic course could be tweaked to be an awesome squirt venue but I'm fairly sure that's not been done -- yet??
Giles

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by EmilyH » Wed May 21, 2014 9:24 pm

There was a guy in a squirt boat playing in the bottom wave of the legacy course last Wednesday evening. Pretty sure he didn't take it down the course itself but he seemed to be having fun.

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Wadhamite » Thu May 22, 2014 8:58 am

I've seen someone take a squirt down the Legacy. Also saw a squirt boater at the BoaterX/race thing they had on Mother's Day. Bf has considered taking his squirt boat down the course, but decided he likes being alive and therefore will stick to playboating!
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Jim » Thu May 22, 2014 9:52 am

May have been answered but I don't recall seeing it - is the assessment discipline specific?

If I were to pass muster in a kayak, would I have to do anything additional to take an OC1, C1 or squirt boat down?

What I paddle doesn't change my ability to read the water, but for example, I have a bombproof kayak roll, used to have a slightly better than 50/50 C1 roll and no OC1 roll at all (well falling about before I can try doesn't help), so I would expect different outcomes in different craft.
On the other hand, evaluating the seriousness of the swim and self rescue is currently part of my OC1 planning so I am just as safe in different craft, although I may spend more time swimming next to some than others......

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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Sickboy » Thu May 22, 2014 3:07 pm

The assessment is not discipline specific, I passed in a kayak and I know a few others that now paddle OC1 having passed this way, but you don't need to be able to roll to pass the Legacy test, just be able to rescue yourself, easier in a canoe than a kayak in my view. I watched SamB over on SoTP did his legacy assesment without a problem last year, more roll-less OC1 paddlers have done it since.
The Legacy course is not what it was for open boaters, the upper sections holes are now very deep to help the kayakers do ends n loops and the dry lines are just about boat width, all good fun though ;-)
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Re: Lee Valley - assessments

Post by Wadhamite » Sun May 25, 2014 11:58 am

The new assessment system is working well for me :D

On a less self-interested note, my boyfriend, who did the old-style assessment, really thinks having a whole hour for the Olympic assessment is an improvement, especially starting people half-way down the course. The people we have sent for the new whole-hour Legacy assessment have also appreciated having more time to prove their ability to swim ;)
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