Learning to brace

Inland paddling
gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

After the ridiculously long T rescue learning (currently going well in the pool) I'm looking at bracing again. 2 problems - crap technique and an almost total inability to remember about this let alone do it until it gets mentioned afterwards possibly in the pub!

Ignoring the technique bit how do you learn to do this?

Can't really get on moving water safely. Seal launching comes to mind as I keep the paddle well away from the water and hope. Amazingly I once managed to have the paddle in the right place while I went in at a silly angle the other time I fell in dispite thinking about bracing and which side then falling over anyway. Normally go for avoid or lower gently but I can pick a spot carefully and put hubby at the bottom. In pool I have an 'amazing' ability to brace on the wrong side in real situations and getting the boat tipped. Not helpful if someones trying to get you to brace and just reinforces the keep the paddle out of the water in real life!

On the technique bit anyone want to suggest some other poor chap or lass?
I can roll :)

LucyLou19
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by LucyLou19 »

Improve your forward paddling instead, a good forward paddling stroke and setting up for moves early virtually eliminates the need to brace in my opinion.

gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

LucyLou19 wrote:Improve your forward paddling instead, a good forward paddling stroke and setting up for moves early virtually eliminates the need to brace in my opinion.
Got to pass 2* to get anywhere paddling with scouts - includes brace :(

Also useful if I ever make the mistake of telling a scout to hold onto the front of the boat. Followed by the lad reaching across the front of the fusion and grabbing the deck lines, the only time I've ever seen Melvin (coach) paddle that hard!
I can roll :)

User avatar
adpal
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:21 pm
Location: Coventry , West Mids.

Re: Learning to brace

Post by adpal »

Hi

By braceing I take it you mean support strokes ? As you've got someone teaching you in a pool can't they go through the basic's at the same time. We regularly do some braceing strokes before going on to capsize drill , t-rescue , rolling.
One way we did find useful was to have someone on the side/bank holding the end of your boat while you face in the other direction , then while hold the paddles in a braced position have them tip to either side while you try to stop the boat going over. You can do this over and over until you get the idea imprinted - as they say in coaching , repetition is the best way to remember it , then when you need it it should be automatic.

Adam

User avatar
davebrads
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:42 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by davebrads »

The mistake you are making is thinking that the brace actually prevents a capsize. It doesn't.

What you need to do is practice rocking the boat from side to side. Once you can manage an angle large enough to convince the assessor you might actually be capsizing, just tap the water with your paddle. At least that's how it looks to me.

As far as actually preventing capsize, see Lucy's post above.
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

noodles
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:17 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Learning to brace

Post by noodles »

I didn't really understand bracing until I actually needed to use it on moving water. It felt very different to the water slapping I'd practised in the pool and much more effective.
These days I brace far less frequently, preferring to put in a good paddle stroke as Lucy suggests.
Simon Westgarth has a video showing an effective brace stroke. It is a very positive stoke rather than a pool practise slap. Look at 2:26

LucyLou19
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by LucyLou19 »

The better concept than brace is active blade . 'Bracing' on an active blade is far more effective than any form of reactive dab the water stroke. For example, In breaking in and out, this is using a stern squeeze as opposed to the old school low brace turn.

To be honest, If I were you I'd spend the money and go on an intro white water course with any of the of the people who emphasis an active blade concept:

Gene 17 in Dartmoor, PYB for residential in North Wales, otherwise Flow Free, Tom Parker Coaching, Ty Nant Outdoors, Chris Eastabrook Coaching in Wales, New Wave in the North/ Midlands, Paul Bull in the Midlands... or pretty much any active L5 or L3/5*/AWE coach...

Mark Dixon
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by Mark Dixon »

I think this is 1 technique that once you've got your paddling right cut its used very little, i paddled yesterday and half braced once going through Surprise Surprise on Upper Dart, having done both shoulder rotator cuffs through bracing I generally go over and roll rather than have another year with injury, bracing doesnt always stop you going over anyway but can put enormous pressures on your muscles. Its best to improve river techniques and tactics once youve passed your 2 star.
Mark

User avatar
David Fairweather
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: Villars-sur-Ollons, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Learning to brace

Post by David Fairweather »

gp.girl wrote: Got to pass 2* to get anywhere paddling with scouts - includes brace :(
It shouldn't do for the kayak element. You have to prevent a capsize - do coach people to do that by static bracing would be antiquated. The best way to prevent falling over sideways, is to get yourself moving forwards.

It's a more useful skill in a canoe however, so get in an open boat, practice throwing the boat around a bit and working out how the paddle helps

User avatar
DaveBland
Posts: 3657
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Calgary Canada
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by DaveBland »

Totally from leftfield…

some folks find the whole learning thing too intense and get hung up on all the details which after while of being in a boat come instinctively anyway. [Not saying this is you though.]
Have you tried playing polo? Even at super beginner level, the act of chasing a ball and paddling with a purpose, really helps. You'll probably find you get a wobble on and start bracing away by default.

And yes, the old style of slap the water brace is a total non-starter. It has to be a stroke with a degree if supportiness to it.
dave

gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

DaveBland wrote:Totally from leftfield…

some folks find the whole learning thing too intense and get hung up on all the details which after while of being in a boat come instinctively anyway. [Not saying this is you though.]
Have you tried playing polo? Even at super beginner level, the act of chasing a ball and paddling with a purpose, really helps. You'll probably find you get a wobble on and start bracing away by default.

And yes, the old style of slap the water brace is a total non-starter. It has to be a stroke with a degree if supportiness to it.
I find the learning thing slow and difficult but the instinctive thing almost 100% wrong.....hence the crap highbrace, non existant low brace and bad habit of stopping/negative paddling at the stupidiest times!

Any local polo clubs around here (Crawley)? Might be worth it now the t rescue works....
I can roll :)

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by ruralweb »

ence the crap highbrace, non existant low brace
these are 3 star requirements if I remember correctly ie support strokes
Mal

User avatar
Kayak-Bloke
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: (Ever Wet) South Wales

Re: Learning to brace

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

Having opted out of all the star stuff some twenty years ago a question relating to this thread: On an assessment do the assessors go through a prescribed list; "Now show me a roll on the right hand side" "Now show me a roll on the left" sort of thing or do they follow you down a bit of water and watch you do stuff only asking you to demonstrate specific things that they haven't seen?


OR does it all depend on the assessor and how they like to do it?

gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

ruralweb wrote:
ence the crap highbrace, non existant low brace
these are 3 star requirements if I remember correctly ie support strokes
On 2 star :( will stop at this level as I don't need any more to do basics with scouts and get on the whitewater trips. Oh and I need to roll which might be next winters coach torturing!

http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... 0Oct13.pdf

Was hoping to get most of the kayak stuff sorted so I can concentrate on the canoe bit.
I can roll :)

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by ruralweb »

We will have to dissagree - see http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... 0Oct13.pdf - A7 support strokes moving and static ie bracing.

Perhaps there is someone on here who can clear the confusion up.
Mal

Mark Dixon
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by Mark Dixon »

Kayak-Bloke wrote:Having opted out of all the star stuff some twenty years ago a question relating to this thread: On an assessment do the assessors go through a prescribed list; "Now show me a roll on the right hand side" "Now show me a roll on the left" sort of thing or do they follow you down a bit of water and watch you do stuff only asking you to demonstrate specific things that they haven't seen?


OR does it all depend on the assessor and how they like to do it?
To achieve the award you'd have to show all the requirements Nige, I took a 3 star coaching session last week and it was discussed and only 1 student could actually roll fine the others were hit and miss, it will be interesting as time goes by how many people will continue to go the star award route in comparison to just WW coaching, kids seem to just paddle and forget the awards now. I know some terrific paddlers who have none at all.
Mark

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by ruralweb »

Ok Ive just had a chat with a mate of mine who did his 2 star end of last year so he could work with the Scouts and the low brace consisted of leaning the kayak to one side and using the paddle to push the kayak back upright ie nothing severe - high braces were discussed and they were told not to do them due to the risk of injury.
Mal

andrew butler 101
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:32 pm
Location: Capel Curig, N.Wales

Re: Learning to brace

Post by andrew butler 101 »

ruralweb wrote:We will have to dissagree - see http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... 0Oct13.pdf - A7 support strokes moving and static ie bracing.

Perhaps there is someone on here who can clear the confusion up.

Yes its in a Sea boat, as it is appropriate in that craft.... but very different wording in the Whitewater syllabus ( http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... 0Oct13.pdf )
A.4 Supporting
The key here is the range of skills. Paddlers will need to understand why they would choose one skill over another.
Paddlers should be able to maintain their balance and recover this by using their positive contact points, and should understand how the paddle can aid this.
When engaging the paddle in the water the paddlers should be aware of the need to keep shape and form.

mark62
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:54 pm

Re: Learning to brace

Post by mark62 »

I'm glad you got your T rescue sorted and I'm sure you will get this as well. Out of interest what "clicked" for you on the T rescue?
You may find by talking to different paddlers/coaches that one will say something that is that eureka moment. If you know the coach who will be taking you for the 2 Star get him to show you what he expects. I think for 2 star it may be less extreme than you think.

User avatar
Adrian Cooper
Posts: 9754
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 2:26 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by Adrian Cooper »

ruralweb wrote:We will have to dissagree - see http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... 0Oct13.pdf - A7 support strokes moving and static ie bracing.

Perhaps there is someone on here who can clear the confusion up.
The simple way is to check the 2 star assessor's notes:
A.6 Preventing a capsize Paddlers should show an efficient low recovery stroke, on both sides, with the paddler off balance.
I think most paddlers understand what is meant by a low recovery stroke. It's a safe stroke although rather defensive for most purposes.

mike bennett
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Learning to brace

Post by mike bennett »

Just to clarify, you want to be able to take Scouts on white water, if i read this right.

As a leader with the permits and a level 2 coaching trainee i think that Scouts and white water is really the remit of very experienced instructors, the scout permit system inst really geared towards this level of water. Its more aimed at what i would call taster sessions, D of E participants are recommended to be 2 star level or at least proficient in the skill.

As the current remit requires for scout permits only require either a level 2 coaching qualification or sign of from you local county assessor then a two star inst a prerequisite. You should be able to demonstrate technical competence. This is a really useful document
http://www.sswac.co.uk/documents/permit_guide.pdf

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Learning to brace

Post by ruralweb »

A.6 Preventing a capsize Paddlers should show an efficient low recovery stroke, on both sides, with the paddler off balance.

Yep I know what that means so where does it mention high brace?
Mal

User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3352
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Think about "getting your bum (i.e. boat) back under your body" as opposed to "slapping the water with your paddle".
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

User avatar
AS Watersports
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:15 pm
Location: Exeter
Contact:

Re: Learning to brace

Post by AS Watersports »

In ideal world I would teach people to roll be fore teaching them to brace (Avoiding whether we should)

Then you can help teach yourself.

I remember being taught high braces never truly committing because of the embarrassment/inconvenience of swimmimg/t rescuing.

gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

mike bennett wrote:Just to clarify, you want to be able to take Scouts on white water, if I read this right.

As a leader with the permits and a level 2 coaching trainee I think that Scouts and white water is really the remit of very experienced instructors, the scout permit system inst really geared towards this level of water. Its more aimed at what I would call taster sessions, D of E participants are recommended to be 2 star level or at least proficient in the skill.

As the current remit requires for scout permits only require either a level 2 coaching qualification or sign of from you local county assessor then a two star inst a prerequisite. You should be able to demonstrate technical competence. This is a really useful document
http://www.sswac.co.uk/documents/permit_guide.pdf
I woun't take me on white water let alone a scout ie I'd go as a learner in a group but nothing more!

Local resevoir possibly the medway in the summer and low flow. Currently I count as part of the group so if I go out a scout can't plus no coaching. We have one district coach who is looking at white water but its a way off. There are a group of other leaders looking at getting permits to help some have more experience some starting from the begining.

Low brace is bad enough that even the rock the boat and slap the water is not going to fool anyone! Stupid really as on flat water I haven't fallen in since trying to turn going backwards playing stuck in the mud (3rd go in a kayak) so I can stay upright just not brace. Moving/white water = swimming.
mark62 wrote:I'm glad you got your T rescue sorted and I'm sure you will get this as well. Out of interest what "clicked" for you on the T rescue?
You may find by talking to different paddlers/coaches that one will say something that is that eureka moment. If you know the coach who will be taking you for the 2 Star get him to show you what he expects. I think for 2 star it may be less extreme than you think.
Probably poolside practice except the bit using about your fingers that just caused mild panic. Seems to work ok now in the pool. This is useful if you trying to brace with little success! I'm still a high speed spraydeck puller in rivers. I know I can get there before the kayak is totally upside down even if someones there to help.
AS Watersports wrote:In ideal world I would teach people to roll be fore teaching them to brace (Avoiding whether we should)

Then you can help teach yourself.

I remember being taught high braces never truly committing because of the embarrassment/inconvenience of swimmimg/t rescuing.
Rolling is a total non starter, if you see the paddle come up first its because it gets in the way when t rescueing. To be practical I had trouble with the reach over take hold of poolside/front of boat and get upright. The bit with the paddle is way too difficult.
I can roll :)

mike bennett
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Learning to brace

Post by mike bennett »

Where are you based??

gp.girl
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Crawley Down, West Sussex
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Learning to brace

Post by gp.girl »

mike bennett wrote:Where are you based??
Crawley, Sussex

Will get there sometime!
I can roll :)

mike bennett
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Learning to brace

Post by mike bennett »

Oh right, how would you like some intensive training via the Scout association, they are looking for both qualifies and non qualified coaches to help at Wings might be a good way if getting some expert training and your permit in one go. Have a look at the website for Wings.

swiftgit
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:39 pm

Re: Learning to brace

Post by swiftgit »

Hi what is the web site addresse?

mike bennett
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Learning to brace

Post by mike bennett »

Google Wings 2014 and look at the staff vacancies section.

http://temp.wings2014.org.uk/wp/wp-cont ... uctors.pdf

Post Reply

Return to “Whitewater and Touring”