BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by DaveBland » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:09 am

I'm with Lankey Boy… in reality it never made a bit of difference apart from the odd " gerr orf my my bloody land".
It's more a matter of principle and protecting the status quo [at least] for the future.
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Mark R » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:13 pm

Feedback on the logo from the design industry...

http://www.underconsideration.com/brand ... neoing.php
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by DaveBland » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:29 pm

83% "bad" votes in the feedback device. This is about as scathing as any project reviewed ever gets on that site.
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by John K » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:41 pm

Apparently, after "months of research" their designer has determined that British Canoeing is:
Chaotic.
Badly organized.
Possibly explosive.
Watch out for the pointy bits."
:D

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Shufflerschair » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:44 pm

I also didn't understand the thinking and symbolism behind the new re-brand and logo.
So, I mailed Chloe Nelson at the BCU, who compiled the letter that accompanied the logo release.
I, like most, hadn't been involved in any consultation, and neither had any of the paddlers or coaches that I know.
Helpfully, she's clarified what consultation was carried out, and with whom.

Here's her response ;

"Viewpoints considered were; paddlers, non paddlers, club members, non club
members, recreational canoeists. Mostly in the midlands areas.
Small focus groups were run in October."

Just for clarity,

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by quicky » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Anyone admitting to being on the focus groups?

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by DaveBland » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:59 pm

Shufflerschair wrote: Here's her response: "...Mostly in the midlands areas."
Ah, that explains everything. Bloody Brummies' heads were addled from paddling on the canals.
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by quicky » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:18 pm

Is nottingham classed as Midlands? Maybe they asked everyone in the office and the cleaners....
paddlers, non paddlers, club members, non club
members, recreational canoeists. That probably covers all the staff.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:27 pm

I really know nothing about marketing, market research and focus groups but I would have though that it would have been almost simple to canvas the members of the two most popular canoe/kayak forums in the UK. In fact, so simple as to be dilatory not to.

Actually I believe Chloe is a member on here.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Jim » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:44 pm

Er, yes Nottingham is East Midlands, presumably the BCU office staff believe the whole of the paddling world is within a 10m radius of them?

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by ruralweb » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:24 pm

Ive emailed in my comments and had no reply - Im pleased that everyone else thinks its crap
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Big Henry » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:48 pm

Jim wrote:Er, yes Nottingham is East Midlands, presumably the BCU office staff believe the whole of the paddling world is within a 10m radius of them?
I take it you mean 10 metres of them, not 10 miles!?

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Simon Westgarth » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:11 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:I really know nothing about marketing, market research and focus groups but I would have though that it would have been almost simple to canvas the members of the two most popular canoe/kayak forums in the UK. In fact, so simple as to be dilatory not to.

Actually I believe Chloe is a member on here.
Although numerous managers from the BCU watch on here, they never comment and dismiss a bunch of our thoughts on considerations as extreme and unrepresentative of the paddler's whom are their membership. I think that is how it was portrayed to myself.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Chris Bolton » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:20 pm

Ive emailed in my comments and had no reply
I've never had a reply to any of the emails I've sent to the general BCU email address. If this is really an initiative to relate to paddlers, answering emails would be a lot more productive than changing the logo.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Jim » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:33 am

Big Henry wrote:
Jim wrote:Er, yes Nottingham is East Midlands, presumably the BCU office staff believe the whole of the paddling world is within a 10m radius of them?
I take it you mean 10 metres of them, not 10 miles!?
Oh yes, although I understand the office is now more than 10m from the slalom site so perhaps I am being a little harsh ;-)

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:15 am

Simon Westgarth wrote:Although numerous managers from the BCU watch on here, they never comment and dismiss a bunch of our thoughts on considerations as extreme and unrepresentative of the paddler's whom are their membership. I think that is how it was portrayed to myself.
UKRGB has a membership of 41,200 and Song of the Paddle has a membership of 14,400. Sure there is some double counting and there are quite a few foreigners but these two have got to count for a significant number of the regular and active paddlers in the country and I am also guessing that most BCU members are also forum members. Inasmuch as the NGBs do not have fora of their own, they should surely take account of opinions on these two.

Preaching to the converted?

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Big Henry » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:58 am

Adrian Cooper wrote:Preaching to the converted?
Yep.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Jim » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:09 pm

Big Henry wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:Preaching to the converted?
Yep.
Maybe not...

Someone reported (I thought in this thread but I can't find it now) that the organization (well what do we call it now?) consider forum users a lunatic fringe, even though we are a larger part of the paddling population than non-forum users.

You know how in first aid they don't teach people to take a pulse the way the professionals do because it is easy to have your finger near the pulse but not be able to feel it - I think the organization is in that position with forums, they may be watching us, but they just aren't able to get their finger on the pulse!

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:54 pm

Jim wrote:consider forum users a lunatic fringe
I recall it was in the context of the Llyn Brianne thing. Maybe elsewhere also, though.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Andy B (of MCC) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:17 pm

Shufflerschair wrote:Chloe Nelson at the BCU, ...Helpfully, she's clarified what consultation was carried out, and with whom.

Here's her response ;

"Viewpoints considered were; paddlers, non paddlers, club members, non club
members, recreational canoeists. Mostly in the midlands areas.
Small focus groups were run in October."
Seemingly the Regional Development Teams were not considered worthy of input either.
The East Midlands RDT (which includes Nottingham!!) knew nothing of it until earlier this month.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by quicky » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:57 pm

Yep but you were not standing in the office when the kids got the crayons out.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Glyn B » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:15 pm

I was considering rejoining the BCU until I became aware (thanks to this forum) of the rebranding and decided I'd be better off using the money to pay for using CT's facilities if and when I go.

I have looked at the logo from every direction and still don't get it? Why the emphasis on the 'R'?

My own professions logo is similarly obscure and their "mission statement" as self aggrandising and meaningless as British canoeings.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by DaveBland » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:20 pm

Ah, problem solved.

From their 'rationale' pdf

"You’ll be pleased to hear that we won’t be spending thousands of pounds on a re-brand!"

For an organization of the size and credibility of the BCU and the impact that a well thought out brand offering could have for them – and the potential damage a poor one could have – they should be looking in the region of around 10K.
This sort of figure would have been responsibly under the 'big budget criticism' level yet enough to get the job done professionally.
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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by morsey » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:20 am

Adrian Cooper wrote:Actually I believe Chloe is a member on here.
Their lack of appearance is probably my fault, I kept on asking why Chris Hawkesworth was being a deuce writing to coaches employers and threatening to wring necks, or whatever self contrived action he thought he had the authority to exert.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Simon Westgarth » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:44 am

morsey wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:Actually I believe Chloe is a member on here.
Their lack of appearance is probably my fault, I kept on asking why Chris Hawkesworth was being a deuce writing to coaches employers and threatening to wring necks, or whatever self contrived action he thought he had the authority to exert.
The whole debarkel is a shocking endorsement of their habitual insular world view and compete lack of insight to anything remotely relative to who the rest of the world functions. I was under the impression they took on a commercial manager, surely they must have some grasp on what would drive a rebranding forward in a positive light. Yes, the first decision to refocus on participation is a great move, but its implication in terms of this mess shows little in the way of strategic thinking. A wholesale change is needed in vision within the management team and their leader.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Mick » Thu May 01, 2014 2:01 pm

Surely they didn't pay someone to come up with that?????

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by Lancs_lad » Thu May 01, 2014 11:19 pm

Chalky723 wrote:
Lancs_lad wrote: Here is a question for you. If access was a non issue/resolved from tomorrow, how would your kayaking life change? Mine would be no different.
It depends how it was resolved.

If it was resolved by a total ban on paddling without the landowners permission coming into force, I think my kayaking life would be affected.

Aside from that - as Strad said, hopefully less gob from Anglers....

C
Doubt much will change. Take the sea for example, access for everyone but doesnt stop some surfers giving grief to other users.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by OliKershaw » Sun May 04, 2014 6:42 pm

Lancs Lad, if you're not sure what the BCU could be doing to support recreational paddling, take a look at Canoe Scotland and the BMC.

Canoe Scotland seem to support every single recreational paddle event in the country; Wet West Paddlefest, Moriston River Race, (I think) the Great Glen Canoe Trail event/race, I'm sure they also sponsor loads of Canoeing/Sea Kayaking events that I know a lot less about. The also do a lot of work (often through volunteers) to ensure that locals are happy to see paddlers by promoting responsible behaviours and spreading the message of things that upset certain people (like resting your paddles on the fence at the get out for the Spean).

How does their sponsorship helps these events?
As far as I've seen (from WWPF and MRR), it is through Glenmore Lodge. Glenmore Lodge often provide a lot of busses and trailers for shuttling paddlers around so that mass participation events are viable. Dave Rosseter also seems to be the man behind the risk assessing and safety of a lot of these events, as the risk assessment/insurance side of organising these events is a nightmare.


Then take a look at the BMC. They not only spread the word, but compiled a database called RAD of all the crags that have climbing restrictions on (usually due to birds) and put them all in one place. You might ask how that database is useful to climbers? Well, it tells you when you can/can't climb as climbing out of season could prevent climbers ever having access to the crag. It makes it easy for those travelling to climbing venue to find out when they can climb and why, and all the information is in one place, not on various local climber's websites. And they've turned it into an app for apple and android! So you can check it on your phone! I'm pretty sure the BCU don't even know what an app is. The BMC also occasionally buy crags or car parks to ensure climbers can continue to use them. They also work on access agreements with landowners. They have installed bins at some crags because landowners threatened to ban climbers due to the amount of litter at the crags. Hopefully the litter wasn't due to the climbers (mostly) and was just other people who you often see sat having BBQ and beers at the crag, but that isn't the point, there was a threat to climbers losing that crag, the BMC found an inexpensive and clever way of keeping all parties happy.

The BMC also release educational content on their website, Facebook and Twitter. Things like, top tips for sea cliff climbing, how to check an anchor stake, which sport bolts to avoid, and many many more.

They also have an online system for registering and payment for registering for awards, imagine that! Incredible, you can buy things off of t'internet. It amazes me I have to send a copy of my qualifications to the organisation that issued them to me to register for the next one, by post, with a cheque. I mean come on, get a grip. The BCU (or whoever they are) must have a database with all of our qualifications, so why can't you sign in, tick a box to say which award you're registering for, enter your cards details and all the pre-requisites are checked automatically. BOSH. But no, that would make far too much sense, and probably require somebody with the computer skills of the average 11 year-old.

I think it's time we genuinely got together and decided what we want and start our own NGB. Adventure Accreditation International is a good idea but I think their awards are poor.

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by twopigs » Mon May 05, 2014 3:24 pm

OliKershaw wrote:Lancs Lad, if you're not sure what the BCU could be doing to support recreational paddling, take a look at Canoe Scotland and the BMC.

Canoe Scotland seem to support every single recreational paddle event in the country; Wet West Paddlefest, Moriston River Race, (I think) the Great Glen Canoe Trail event/race, I'm sure they also sponsor loads of Canoeing/Sea Kayaking events that I know a lot less about. The also do a lot of work (often through volunteers) to ensure that locals are happy to see paddlers by promoting responsible behaviours and spreading the message of things that upset certain people (like resting your paddles on the fence at the get out for the Spean).

How does their sponsorship helps these events?
As far as I've seen (from WWPF and MRR), it is through Glenmore Lodge. Glenmore Lodge often provide a lot of busses and trailers for shuttling paddlers around so that mass participation events are viable. Dave Rosseter also seems to be the man behind the risk assessing and safety of a lot of these events, as the risk assessment/insurance side of organising these events is a nightmare.
Don't think for a minute that all is sweetness and light in Scotland ..... http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... CA+Touring
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

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Re: BCU Rebranded - British Canoeing

Post by OwenBurson » Mon May 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Mick wrote:Surely they didn't pay someone to come up with that?????
I've just been told that it cost the best part of, wait for it.... 8k!!!

I've not read through the entire thread, but I'm sure there has been some input from some well informed folk, so I'm sure I'm just reiterating that this has come from the 'competition side' of the sport, not from clubs, centres or recreation. But then I'm sure you all guessed that already.

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