Pyranha moan

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carlalvey
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by carlalvey »

On a positive note.
I went out to hpp last night in the burn and i must say,in my limited experience,this is the best boat i have paddled.
None of the usual getting used to it,straight in and getting the confidence to do things i normally think twice about,great boat.
(Hopefully no more issues).

Mark Dixon
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

I'm getting problems with my Mark 3 Burn where the seat comes loose after every paddle, I noticed 1 of nuts missing, contacted Pyranha who sent some different nuts with locking nuts but its highly inaccessible and with modern designs and testing it should not be an issue. I bought my boat 2nd hand as it was too small for a friend, when the large version came out he bought that one, so his is about 4/5months old, he is now being sent a replacement boat as the seat has broke, understandably hes not overly impressed and is considering a different make next winter.
The boat IMO handles superbly for me, its such a shame it has outfitting issues, I have a Mamba with the nose smashed a bit, maybe I could swap all the outfitting, has anyone previously tried this?

Bladepaddler
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Bladepaddler »

I've sent my boat back to the shop to repair the seat, the seat has a huge split in at the back that will eventually mean the seat will just come to pieces. Its incredibly frustrating how terrible the outfitting is on this boat. I hope anyone prospectively looking to buy a boat new will see this thread and be warned away from buying a pyranha.

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Big Henry
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Big Henry »

Bladepaddler wrote:I hope anyone prospectively looking to buy a boat new will see this thread and be warned away from buying a pyranha.
Surely you mean: I hope Pyranha are reading this thread and immediately rectify the problems!?!

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StoneWeasel
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by StoneWeasel »

Nearly all outfitting can be improved by ripping it out and making your own out of foam anyway.

I just wish the various bits of outfittig were all optional extras so I could buy a shell with foot plate, grab loops and rescue points and nothing else rather than drilling loads of holes all over the boats to fit loads of bits I don't really want but have to pay for.

This applies to all companies, not just Pyranha.

Denzil

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Bladepaddler »

I'm not really interested in outfitting the boat myself, I just wanted to buy a boat that works as soon as it arrives.

Currently rather than feeling like I've spent my money on a premium brand, I feel like I'm a product tester for Pyranha. Spending £900 odd pounds on a boat, I've not actually felt it was justified, I've had more problems with my boat than anyone I know who's bought their's second hand.

The only person I know that's had as many problems is someone who also has a burn 3 when all their outfitting randomly fell out one day.

All i can think is that there have been some huge cost downs at pyranha when they introduced the burn 3, hopefully they'll be going back to their original suppliers.

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Chalky723 »

Bladepaddler wrote:I'm not really interested in outfitting the boat myself, I just wanted to buy a boat that works as soon as it arrives.
This is how I feel, I don't mind doing it on an older second hand boat but don't really want to be faffing around with Evo-Stick and Foam in a brand new boat...

It's going to be major factor is deciding which manufacturer get's the wodge of cash I have ready & waiting at the moment though.

As someone who's not really at a level where he's going to notice the "extra 1cm of edge" or the "sharper rails" between models in a certain class, how the ride is from the inside is nearly as important as from the outside...

C
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

To me outfitting the boat should be adjusting the seat correctly, hip pads and maybe a bit of foam here and there, it should not include removing crap plastic nuts and replacing them with better ones, it seems cheap and cheerful outfitting which is a real shame as I really like the boat.
I have always been impressed with their overall customer service and have no complaints, perhaps Pyranha may need to recall the Burn 3 and rectify all the problems?
Mark

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caveman_si
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by caveman_si »

carlalvey wrote:Burn now arrived and looks great.
Apparently the pillar was being hand drilled and was drilled out of square????? Now they will be machine drilled.
I would of thought on any production line with a quality product it would be all machine cut and drilled??
Nope lots of very very high end products are still hand built, AMG engines are all hand built, F1 cars are hand built, significant parts of a rolls royce is done by hand like all of body work detials and interior.


Bladepaddler wrote:I'm not really interested in outfitting the boat myself, I just wanted to buy a boat that works as soon as it arrives.

Currently rather than feeling like I've spent my money on a premium brand, I feel like I'm a product tester for Pyranha. Spending £900 odd pounds on a boat, I've not actually felt it was justified, I've had more problems with my boat than anyone I know who's bought their's second hand.

The only person I know that's had as many problems is someone who also has a burn 3 when all their outfitting randomly fell out one day.

All I can think is that there have been some huge cost downs at pyranha when they introduced the burn 3, hopefully they'll be going back to their original suppliers.
Sorry all boats need some form of adjustment when you buy them to make them fit for you (unless youve had a custom make to fit) even if its just adjusting seat/ foot rests. Also if you havent felt £900 was justified on boat why spend your money on it did you not demo and research before forking out on a new toy? And outfitting doesnt randomly fall out I think Tim alluded to some issue with glue but for mechanical fixing sorry its like a car you check the important bits regulary to check they are ok.

Personally hats off to pyranha for engaging here and doing some of the things they are doing to fix some of the problems people have encountered with their boats. Everyone can have problem its how you deal with them that matters.

But as everyone is moaning i'll join in, pyrhana the fish sponge that came with my last boat ago is now looking really tatty/dirty through over use. I mean i expect sponges to last much longer then 4/5 years, no matter how many cars/bikes i clean with it. ;)

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by StoneWeasel »

caveman_si wrote:Pyrhana the fish sponge that came with my last boat ago is now looking really tatty/dirty through over use. I mean I expect sponges to last much longer then 4/5 years, no matter how many cars/bikes I clean with it. ;)
You are being totally unfair to Pyranha here.

I still have the sponge that I got when I bought a Pro-Zone at least 15 years ago and it is fine.

You can hardly hold Pyrahna to blame when you must have clearly misused it and trying to sully their name with such a claim is despicable ;)

Denzil

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Jimjam »

I didn't get a sponge with my new boat :'(

Bladepaddler
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Bladepaddler »

caveman_si wrote: Sorry all boats need some form of adjustment when you buy them to make them fit for you (unless youve had a custom make to fit) even if its just adjusting seat/ foot rests.

I didn't say I didn't want to adjust the boat, I said I didn't want to outfit it...
caveman_si wrote: Also if you havent felt £900 was justified on boat why spend your money on it did you not demo and research before forking out on a new toy?

I couldn't have known all of the outfitting in my boat was going to fail, which is why I did spend all that money on it. If I'd known what was going to happen to the boat I wouldn't have bought it, I would have gone for dagger or zet. £900 on a boat that works is justified, £900 on a boat that breaks all the time is not.

With regard to the mechanical fixings, people don't check them on cars... maybe you wander round your car with a torque gauge but 99% of people don't. They rely on the assurance from the manufacturer that the fixings aren't going to fail, which is why a new car doesn't need an MOT for 3 years. This should be likewise with a kayak, I shouldn't have to keep tightening fixings on a very new boat.

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

When I bought mine I demo'd it and decide it was what I'm after halfway down the Upper Dart, it handled much better than the Zet and Mamba for someone my size, in all the time I had the Zet and Mamba the outfitting was spot on even with a couple swims it stayed in. I've yet to swim in my Burn but as I'm between swims I expect it may happen 1 day so cant comment about other reports, but I can say everything repeatedly comes loose and moves around randomly.
I 'd still go for the Burn over the others as I love it, but it has issues that really need addressing at the design and build stage. I've got a couple sponges but as yet never used them and they are brand new so if anyone desperatly wants 1 let me know.
Mark

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

I took all the crap tightening nuts and changed them to the locking nuts Pyranha sent me but also introduced a stainless steel washer inside the boat. It wasnt the easiest and had to use 18volt driver to tighten it properly with a 10mm ring spanner to hold the nut in place inside cockpit. I just hope the seat never needs coming out as I threaded one of the bolts. It doesnt move around now.
Looking at the set up they need to just supply locking nuts at point of sale to add once the seat has been set correctly, probably about 50p cost.
Mark

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by TechnoEngineer »

I think all they really need to do is fit spring washers with the plastic thumbwheel nuts. I'll probably replace it with a nyloc at some point, or even change the bolt for studding with a nyloc on the outside, and a metal wingnut on the inside.
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David Fairweather
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by David Fairweather »

They used to supply boats with nyloc nuts on everything, but then folk complained that they were to hard to adjust.

I am always puzzled that folk will spend three or four times the price of a boat on a mountain bike and then spend hours fiddling to get each bit just right, yet expect a boat to be perfect for them out of the wrapper. Different cultures I guess.

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Chalky723 »

David Fairweather wrote: I am always puzzled that folk will spend three or four times the price of a boat on a mountain bike and then spend hours fiddling to get each bit just right, yet expect a boat to be perfect for them out of the wrapper. Different cultures I guess.
I tend to look at it like buying a car personally.

You buy a brand new model, sit in it, shift the seat back/forwards, raise/lower the steering wheel & make sure the seatbelt is at the right height.

I wouldn't then have to expect to stop and bolt the seat back in 2 miles down the road because it fell off....

Different standards I guess......

C

(and I ride a £300 mountain bike that was just dandy straight out of the wrapper...)
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

I had a Blistik Mac 1 years ago and removed the seat to sort out the oil canning and the fixings were superb, all stainless steel and all easily adjustable and no problem of coming loose.
All Pyranha need to do is introduce a better system and use better quality fixings. As I said in earlier post I threaded the bolt so I am in real trouble should it need to come out, all Pyranha have to do is use hex bolts and that will dramatically reduce the chances of that happenning. I like the idea of a spring washer but still think the plastic nut is nowhere near man enough for job. I never had this problem with my old Burn Mk2 so wonder what was holding that together?
Mark

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Mark Dixon wrote:I'm getting problems with my Mark 3 Burn where the seat comes loose after every paddle
Now that I own one, I've had a chance to experiment with it. For the seat, I found that it's not enough to just tighten the wingnuts; you have to hold the wingnut and turn the bolt with an Allen key - it should be able to do a whole turn.

The same type of wingnut is used to secure the fore-aft seat adjustment - they still come loose so I'm working on a solution for them.
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carlalvey
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by carlalvey »

Down hpp the other day and i thought ill just check the seat bolts.
And............they were very loose.
would a wing nut on top of another wingnut work?

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Dave W
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Dave W »

carlalvey wrote:Down hpp the other day and I thought ill just check the seat bolts.
And............they were very loose.
would a wing nut on top of another wingnut work?
Try some Loctite, should keep your bolts from coming loose
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255230

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Rhod
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Rhod »

David Fairweather wrote: I am always puzzled that folk will spend three or four times the price of a boat on a mountain bike and then spend hours fiddling to get each bit just right, yet expect a boat to be perfect for them out of the wrapper. Different cultures I guess.
Thing is, advice seems to be, buy a boat, rip out everything stuck down out, stick it in yourself with evostick.
Could manufacturers not just use evostick in the first place?

No foam ever washed out of my Dancer, Acrobat, Quadro, Salto or S:6 (as far as I can remember). I still own the salto and frequently lend it to swimmers, so I am sure of that.

Foam/screws have very quickly come loose in all of my more recent boats.
When building a boat - use better glue!

It’s all well and good having a boat with drinks bottle holder, ratchets, 100,000 fittings and go faster stripes; but what I want is a boat with a boat with good hull, that doesn’t fall apart after a year. I can't be on my own in that?

(I have never owned a modern pyranha, so I am not joining in with that moan specifically)
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Re: Thread-locking, also see this:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.ph ... threadlock

and this:
http://www.loctitesolutions.com/files/A ... _Guide.pdf

(this is more up-to-date):
http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data ... _Guide.pdf


and this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204102
All threadlockers are waterproof. They apply as a liquid, then in the absense of air in contact with an active metal, they turn to a solid thermoset plastic.
Ah - this may be better stuff to use - Loctite 425:
http://www.henkelna.com/faceted-search- ... 0000000I29
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Kizzie_St-As »

As a balancing view, I've owned four Pyranha boats and nothing has ever broken on any of them. Even when my Burn goes for a little trip down the river by itself...

About Loctite, it's worth noting that some varieties (particularly whatever ones I use at work) eat through plastic in seconds.
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Chalky723 »

Kizzie_St-As wrote:As a balancing view, I've owned four Pyranha boats and nothing has ever broken on any of them.
How many Burn 3's though? The general gripe seems to be that there is something wrong in the manufacturing/assembly process now - not years ago.....

C
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carlalvey
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by carlalvey »

A friend who i go paddling with recently bought a mk3 burn,and last week i was telling him about bolts coming loose,he said he would keep an eye out.
When he got out he found a bolt and a washer rolling around in the boat,not too sure where they even came from.

And im again a little dissapointed with mine, it was at first sent back due to the pillar being twisted,the other day a noticed that the pillar moves side to side if i push it,even though when it was sent back one of the things that they were supposed to do was to secure the pillar by sticking the track it sits in onto the boat.
Dont know what they stuck it with but it didnt work.

Now by rights i should be on the phone and ask for it to be sorted,but no doubt it would end up costing me in some way,postage etc??? so im not going to bother i dont think.
Just going to look at securing it myself i think.

Its a great boat,just poor outfitting which is a shame when you look at what other makes have got.

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Mark Dixon »

I've had other pyranha boats with no problems (still have an S6) I am very happy with all help and after sales from Pyranha but might just go back to a Mamba for my next boat, I use a nose dented 8.1 for flatwater coaching and its extremely robust in comparison to the Burn 3. I think Pyranha need to look into their manufacturing process for this model.

Mark

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Whitey1 »

The frustrating thing is that they build great paddling boats but seem to be less concerned re outfitting and quality. I desperately would like to own a Burn 3 but I just won't go through the grief of doing their development work for them. And sadly no it's not a new thing though it does seem to have become a bigger issue than before with the Mk 3. Check this thread, and there are others if you want to go looking back in time but it makes pretty depressing reading. http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... p?p=201044

Pyranha are a bit conspicuous by their lack of comment over this. Tim L did try and offer helpful advice nearer the start of this thread and a few Pyranha paddlers are suggesting it's part and parcel of outfitting a boat to your personal preferences.........which I think has been rejected by the majority of frustrated Burn owners, most of whom are loyal Pyranha supporters. Now I know kayaks aren't complicated machines like cars for example, but imagine there was a consistent theme of loose seat bolts say in the car industry. There would be a re-call worldwide for a cure to be installed at their expense. Yes it does happen with new products, things go wrong which didn't show up during testing and development in every industry so kayaks won't be immune to it. We know that and can accept it. However they are simple bits of kit, it shouldn't be difficult but why should the paying customer have to fix a manufacturing fault themselves. The only other example I can think of was when Wavesport started their first version of the Whiteout outfitting and it looked great for a few months and then de-laminated. They acknowledged the problem, sorted it and offered replacement to their buyers, even up to a few years later.
C'mon Pyranha, just fix it and tell the world when you have done so and us would-be Burn 3 owners can get on board and start spreading the good word for a change.

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carlalvey
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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by carlalvey »

Well said Whitey

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Re: Pyranha moan

Post by Dave Manby »

Dave W wrote:Try some Loctite, should keep your bolts from coming loose
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255230
or nail varnish

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