Tryweryn pay and play

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Nedders
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Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Nedders » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:13 pm

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chucky240
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by chucky240 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:23 pm

personally i think £15 a day is stupid money !
the club i am a member of use the Tryweryn for training and bring new members to experience white water.
at that price i will not be going there.
Its almost as if they want to force people to join CE/CW/CS etc from which i see very little benefit.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by twopigs » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:27 pm

Back to the good old days ...... It got up to £7 for members before it was scrapped .......

Sorry - my error - I think it was an access charge back then. Now it is a facilities charge!
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icklepaddler
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by icklepaddler » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:42 pm

Hmmm, I wonder if they will be reintroducing annual / summer passes?

A retrograde step that possibly would not have been necessary had some paddlers not refused to pay the parking / Tryweryn enforced the reasonable charges.

axeman
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by axeman » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:43 pm

just pinched my sons id so i can post, well done CW with welsh assembly looking into acsess at the moment you come up with this, why not tell your members to jion fishing clubs instead of CW , you have just shot all those that stuck thier heads in the fireing line to get the acsess debate going in the back me included, I am no longer a member of CW because i felt it was not doing enough for its members i see no advantage to being a member ? If this is what CW come up with just as the acsess review details are to be publised by WAG why should anyone want to be a member ,you have just sold all your members down the road ,yes pay for site facilities if you use them, parking pathways etc , but the rest is just bullsit and i hope your members let you know how they feel<

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:52 pm

Considering we pay at least £5 per HOUR at Lee Valley, £5 for a day is not much to ask for in my perspective.
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:06 pm

Be interesting to see where they apply the charge. At the top, at the car park, a man with a large shrimping net at the bottom to catch people?

I've never used the facilities, only the car park. As for releases - I'm sure they would still occur & if the details were posted online people could still turn up...

If you stay on the campsite & access from their land will you have to pay? Will we just see more cars in lay-bys?

It could also have the knock on effect of bringing things to a head with the Dee as more people (especially clubs) will start to use that instead......
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chucky240
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by chucky240 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:11 pm

the cost of Lee valley is paying for the pumps as well.
Lee valley is expensive compared to Cardiff or Hpp.
The tryweryn is gonna be more expensive then Ciww and Hpp.
its just basically a con to get the membership numbers up so they can plow more money into competitive boating.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:11 pm

TechnoEngineer wrote:Considering we pay at least £5 per HOUR at Lee Valley, £5 for a day is not much to ask for in my perspective.
It's going to be £15 for a lot of people. That just adds to the overall cost of a trip there & may actually discourage clubs/groups attending (which may well be the aim!).

I'm quietly confident that, even if not a single paddler paid, they would still negotiate the releases for the rafts....

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Yew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:39 pm

I wonder if they will enforce this as effectively as they have been doing for the parking charges?

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by ChrisE » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:13 pm

If one pays the parking charge, and doesn't use any building facilities, then would one be justified in not feeling the need to pay the facilities charge?

(Note that according to a post on the facebook page they are keeping the parking charge as well)

Nedders
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Nedders » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:18 pm

Sorry title should of said pay, pay again & then play.
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by SimonMW » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:40 pm

It is silly given that they stopped the fees in the first place because they said it would be hypocritical of them to charge while demanding free and open access to rivers.

I know CT say they have to maintain bridges etc. But this is hardly a daily expense. They don't have to support anything like the same costs as an artificial pumped venue such as Cardiff. They make money from rafting, gorge walking and other activities, as well as I would imagine rental fees from the cafe, the income from the car park, fees from Rescue 3 and now from people who wish to run coached sessions there.

The price structure also smacks of trying to force peoples hand to join the NGB.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Strad » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:54 pm

icklepaddler wrote: A retrograde step that possibly would not have been necessary had some paddlers not refused to pay the parking
'nuff said in my opinion.

But I will be hypocritical and ask, when it comes to the member versus non-member what about the halfway house of member of an affiliated club - i.e. would that protect the club trip?
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Beep Beep » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:23 pm

Yes I wondered that - will members of affiliated clubs be considered 'members'? Would be good to get some clarification on that point, and if they are members, what they will need to demonstrate this.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by DaveB » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:27 pm

In answer to the last post I doubt that membership of an affiliated club will entitle a paddler to the cheap rate. Fairly easy to check whether a paddler is a personal member of BCU but impossible to check whether he is a member of an affiliated club.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Lancs_lad » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:35 pm

chucky240 wrote: The tryweryn is gonna be more expensive then Ciww and Hpp.
And Tees Barrage. You have to either walk (a longish way) or run a shuttle, which you don't at the artificial courses. I for one who is equidistant between the 2 will not becoming to Wales now in a dry spell.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by David Fairweather » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:49 pm

I am assuming that this is part of a clever, subversive plan to get people making more use of the multitude of excellent whitewater rivers in North Wales instead of staying on the Tryweryn each and every weekend. Well Played CW.

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markwats
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by markwats » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:04 pm

So we were paying £3 for parking and no one really minded that , but now unless you join CE/CW you get a 500% increase in fee's. Do the energy companies sponsor CW ?
This does seem like a callous attempt to swell the membership of the governing bodies and put more money in to competitive paddling , but what do I know. I accept that there are running costs and things go up , but this is to much!
How about a mass trespass ?

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by DaveBland » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:23 pm

Wow, I've never paddled there without having to pay. [Been a while I guess.]

But I don't see what the problem is? They have put loads facilities in, manage the river and generally have made it a good facility. It seems reasonable to have to pay a bit towards that?

As long as it's clear that payment is for use of the facilities, not access to the river, then there are no hippos.

How much they charge will depend on market values… however, how they enforce it is a whole different kettle of fish, as they are saying all rivers are free to paddle, so the can't ban you. Tricky.
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by SimonMW » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:30 pm

They have put loads facilities in
Have they?

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by SimonMW » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:31 pm

As long as it's clear that payment is for use of the facilities, not access to the river, then there are no hippos.
Urrr, as a paddler I don't use the changing rooms, the only facility there that really applies. So in that case as paddlers we are paying for access, not facilities. We pay for parking already so that doesn't count, and the cafe doesn't count either since they pay rental fees and are profit making in the first place.

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Andee B
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Andee B » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:32 pm

Isn't it swarming with public footpaths on the upper?
So long as you don't park and use the facilities, I presume that it's okay to rock up and get on - like every other river in Wales.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Liz S » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:02 pm

I personally think its basically wrong to pay to paddle any river, and I think £15.00 is far too much. Theres plenty of students and young people/skint people and tight people who will struggle with paying that much really especially if they are paddling for a couple of days.
The worst place you have to pay is Slenniford where its £4.50 per person and the facilities are an old cold room with a plastic buffet and one loo opposite as the others are always locked.Thats just taking the hit and miss really and I dont know how the owner has the cheek but they say God loves a tryer.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by dundun1958 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:30 pm

I am going to buy a river,spend a few hundred thousand on car parks,changing rooms ,paths and modifying the bed(careful !).Then charge £5 to use it.I'll be a millionare by this time next year.Isn't that right Del Boy?..Rodney?

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benbrisbourne
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by benbrisbourne » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:33 pm

This is unfortunate, and whilst I see their point, understand their difficulties, and appreciate the services they provide, it is ultimately counter productive to the sport, and the general public as a whole. If there's one way to reduce participation in anything, it is to remove an excellent and accessible facility. I would hope, if only for piece of mind, that the people who came to this decision, felt very conflicted in making it. However, given the fact that they haven't elected to create the topic on here, with an express apology by the individuals that made the decision shouldering their responsibilities themselves, I have little hope.

Given the choice of driving in periods of better weather to either Nottingham or Bala, I know which I would pick, hands down. Unfortunately the Tryweryn will receive very little funding from myself in future.

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buck197
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by buck197 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:46 pm

Isn't there more to this than is being said, didn't some of the providers recently complain that charges were being raised for them coaching and they collective indicated that finances at the WCA were not very good. A mention of a loss in the shop etc and maybe not a good financial plan. So how about the earl reason.

Having said that look at other sports and entertainment, £15 will get you into a movie and a bag of sweet - 2 hours ish, a football match costs £20 to £100 for 90 minutes, cricket match £30 plus, rugby match £15, see a band £20-£100, round of golf £20, squash court £10. Therefore all day for £15 or for me £5 it isn't such a huge cost.

It is not as if the money is going to a rich landowner or an entrepreneur, it's going to a governing body. So I'm sure there will be a lot of paddlers saying they wouldn't pay for a river but they will pay hundreds of pounds in fuel and accomodation to paddle plus their kit.

I see paddlers pay £10 for a concrete ditch at Cardiff, Lea Valley even more and no issues and I prefer the T to a session on an artificial course.

I'd prefer not to pay but it's a facility that guarantees a paddle when travelling some distance.
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DaveBland
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by DaveBland » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:57 pm

benbrisbourne wrote:...it is ultimately counter productive to the sport, and the general public as a whole. If there's one way to reduce participation in anything, it is to remove an excellent and accessible facility.
In general, I'm all for making sport and leisure facilities as free as possible to all. Seeing the difference it makes over here in Canada where loads of stuff is free/really cheap for kids sport.

But, paddling is a 'luxury' pastime. I'd rather see free access to swimming pools and other mass participation sports first, before a sport that requires a car, loads of kit etc.
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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by icklepaddler » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:00 pm

Is the money going to CW?

CT appears to have been moved into another body following losses at CW recently with Recue 3 forcing a £50k write down and other (ct) centre income dropping by over £60k. It also looks like several directors have loaned money, so I would presume tbey need repaying.

Would be nice to know real reasoning as the timing of this appears very poor given welsh assembly investigations.

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Re: Tryweryn pay and play

Post by Dave Thomas » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:03 pm

markwats wrote:So we were paying £3 for parking and no one really minded that
Not my recollection of the discussions on here when the parking charge was introduced ...
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