Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Inland paddling
kayakingistheway
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Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

I just broke my last boat (burn mk2) and looking to replace it.

Has anyone had a chance to paddle the new Burn (mk3) or the Mamba 2012 and know how they compare to each other or to the mk2 Burn?

I weigh 80kg and 5', 9".

It'll be used 70% for uk river running, 15% some big(ish) water river running (Austria is a favorite) and 15% Creeking in Scotland.

Any help would be great.

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hun
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by hun »

Mamba is for girls.
Does that answer your question?
Turtleback. We'll take you there

Betty
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Betty »

Been paddling the new Large Burn. The Mamba is numb and boring compared to it

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justin-g
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by justin-g »

The mamba test - can you actually pick it up?? No? Probably not that then.

Some impressive reviews about for the mk 3 burn - it better be a massive improvement as the last two were not brilliant.

Zet - veloc or raptor??
White water "rider"

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

Thanks for suggestions, not many Mamba fans here then ;)

I'd consider the Zet, but I quite like my edges.

Betty, if it's not too-personal-a-question, how much do you weigh? I just weighed myself and I'm 78kg. That's towards the top of the new medium or bottom of the large.

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Simon Westgarth »

I have paddled the Mamba 8.6 for some time now, it's fast and very predictable, fun too. It's weight with the rotomolded parts means its a little more than some others, still the river running spec is coming in at 21Kg the same or as near as all the other creek boats I weighed at the same time. I see Pyranha's boat is spec'ed at 18kg for the medium, with all the parts are thermoformed which is how they arrived at that low figure. You do of course gain something in a lighter boat, but the disadvantage of thermoformed parts is they are not as strong as rotomolded parts, so a minus there to balance it out. Both these boats are good, very good, the Mamba has proven its popularity and the Burn has been well received. The best option is to test them both and see what you like the best.

Mark Dixon
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Mark Dixon »

I look forward to trying out the new Burn, been looking for a decent boat for a while, too small for a Raptor, too big for a Veloc. I paddle a 8.1 Mamba at mo and its pretty good but not as good at tracking as either of Zets so maybe the Burn being made longer could be the answer?

Sayno2playboats
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Sayno2playboats »

My Mamba 7.6, 2012, (non Ergo outfitting) weighs 17kg. What's heavy about that? I love it.
Regards, M.

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mantamx
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by mantamx »

i am a big mamba fan; it is nimble and does everything of what you look for well (unlike many others which are too narrow in their envelope). have not tried mk3 yet though but hated mk1 and mk2 (and even shiva). but mk3 does look like a very different boat, so would try.

240 pound 'girl' (who, unlike some p*ssies above, has little problem picking a 21kg boat up as i much prefer it not breaking down on me nearly as often as pyranha's do, +poor outfitting they have). :)
kayakingistheway wrote:Thanks for suggestions, not many Mamba fans here then ;)

I'd consider the Zet, but I quite like my edges.

Betty, if it's not too-personal-a-question, how much do you weigh? I just weighed myself and I'm 78kg. That's towards the top of the new medium or bottom of the large.

sprintpaddler
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by sprintpaddler »

Loved my large Burn 2. Replaced it with a LL Stomper 90......stunning boat, you`ve got to demo one!

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

Some good advice here. Thanks.

I'll definitely demo the boat, but it is a very very long round trip for me to do so if I want to test it on White Water so I want to narrow down my choices as much as possible.

I tried the Stomper and really liked it, but I think i *just* preferred the mk2 burn.

Did anyone who tried the mk3 burn (large) find it hard to edge. It seems to be (on paper) a bit wider than the medium mk2 and has a flatter hull. If I have a problem with my kayaking, it is weak hips.

WRK
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by WRK »

Image

I have been loving it.

At 78kg I recommend getting in the Large Burn to try. I'm 80kg and 5'10 and it feels great for me. I went for the biggest 'wedge' to really bring myself out of the boat.

I find myself feeling like (though not according to the suggested weights) being in-between the 8.1 and 8.6 Mamba maybe you will too.

A couple of independent reviews here:

http://blog.aswatersports.co.uk/2014/01 ... eview.html
http://blog.aswatersports.co.uk/2014/01 ... sions.html

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

That' good information WRK, thank you.

Do you find it easy to edge?

WRK
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by WRK »

Yeah easy to edge and easy to switch edge.

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

Brilliant :)

Getting excited for a new boat. I think I'll arrange a demo.

Cheers everyone for the advice!

joules
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by joules »

How about a proven boat which the Burn Mk3 Large is partly based on and not too wide and flexible in purpose...

The Everest.

Cat - pigeons...among..

Jules

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Lancs_lad
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Lancs_lad »

WRK wrote:Yeah easy to edge and easy to switch edge.
Aren't all boats?

WRK
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by WRK »

Lancs_lad wrote:
WRK wrote:Yeah easy to edge and easy to switch edge.
Aren't all boats?

I think so.

Merely answering a direct question.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Lancs_lad »

I have paddled several boats this year (for long durations in each).

Nomad 8.5
Stomper 90
Mamba 8.6
Zet Director

I never once blamed the boat for a bad line. The limiting factor for 99% of people on this forum will be the you not the boat. The reason I have tried so many boats is either because they were a hire boat or a replacement for breaking my own. After all this I still believe I can make any boat give me a good or bad day on the river.

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

joules wrote:How about a proven boat which the Burn Mk3 Large is partly based on and not too wide and flexible in purpose...

The Everest.

Cat - pigeons...among..

Jules
Worth considering, though when I've sat in an Everest I've always felt swamped by the size of the boat.

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

Lancs_lad wrote:
WRK wrote:Yeah easy to edge and easy to switch edge.
Aren't all boats?
I tend to spend most of the time on one edge or another when paddling cos I like to carve, but I just find that some boats I can edge all day long and others I start to tire in.

Some boats are slower changing edge to edge, or at least that's what I've found.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Lancs_lad »

kayakingistheway wrote:
Lancs_lad wrote:
WRK wrote:Yeah easy to edge and easy to switch edge.
Aren't all boats?
I tend to spend most of the time on one edge or another when paddling cos I like to carve, but I just find that some boats I can edge all day long and others I start to tire in.

Some boats are slower changing edge to edge, or at least that's what I've found.
Try edging less. To carve all you need to do it keep your boat flat to the water. The main time I edge is while traversing the flow, I have a slight downstream edge so that I track across the flow rather than get turned by it. When you cross eddy lines just flatten the boat out.

People edge far too much and too often in my opinion.

kayakingistheway
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by kayakingistheway »

Lancs_lad wrote:Try edging less. To carve all you need to do it keep your boat flat to the water. The main time I edge is while traversing the flow, I have a slight downstream edge so that I track across the flow rather than get turned by it. When you cross eddy lines just flatten the boat out.

People edge far too much and too often in my opinion.
Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try, but I do like that feeling when you're charging down a rapid and edge so hard you feel the g's when cutting into the eddy :) :) :) :)

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Randy Fandango
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Randy Fandango »

Lancs_lad wrote:To carve all you need to do it keep your boat flat to the water
Isn't that more a skid you're describing?
I'd suggest the very definition of a carve is a turn during which 'grip' on the water (to avoid skidding and instability when the skid ends) is achieved by dipping a rail slightly deeper in the water to act a little like a shallow keel.
Therefore in this situation (whilst I agree lots of people unnecessarily over-edge) by definition the hull can't be flat to the water.
Giles

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Neptune
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Neptune »

Lancs_lad wrote:

I have paddled several boats this year (for long durations in each).

Nomad 8.5
Stomper 90
Mamba 8.6
Zet Director
Yes, but which one of these did you enjoy paddling the most and for what reasons?

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Poke
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by Poke »

Lancs_lad wrote:To carve all you need to do it keep your boat flat to the water.
Really?
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nick 16
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by nick 16 »

All the boats with rails and harsh edges make you lazy, whats wrong with edging, look at what the pro's in america use Nomad, Jefe Grande and Remix all either round or have rounded edges. In my opinion rails and such aren't needed once you edge over a boat the rocker will do the turning for you as it sinks into the water. But either Burn or mamba i'd likely go burn the new one looks less aggressive and the mamba sizes work better for women from what I can see plus at least pyranha is british. Not had a go in the new burn yet but like the mamba I bet it's nowhere as good as my remix which I don't think you see enough of
Nicholas Ball

KevfaeFife
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by KevfaeFife »

"lazy"? Bit strong no? Theres more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Does power steering make me a lazy driver? Does fixing up a Pot Noodle make me a lazy cook...errm!?

I don't feel particularly lazy on the river in a Burn. I suppose there are ways I could try and make things more difficult for myself (read different) but I'm having fun. That'll do me.

Each to their own.

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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

Post by SimonMW »

Not sure if it is actually "edges" that grip the water when carving in the first place. Surely it is the greater, flatter surface of a flatter hulled boat that is putting up more resistance against "slipping or sliding" when put on a strong tilt compared with a round hulled boat rather than edges or rails?

Maybe I am wrong about this, but regardless of whether you are in a flat hulled or a round hulled boat, surely the carve arc is better controlled with a stern squeeze/rudder as emphasised by G17 rather than passively relying on a specific hull type?

Watch the HIPS DVD and watch Francesco Salvato entering and exiting eddies. There isn't much difference in the way he carves the Habitat to the way he carves the Diesel because he uses stern rudders/squeezes to control his arc and keep momentum going.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Burn 2014 vs Mamba 2013

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