Beginner kayaker

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Liam98
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Beginner kayaker

Post by Liam98 »

I've just started kayaking and want to get outside now, I've been looking at a pyranha burn 2 but have just found a liquid logic stomper, do you think the stomper is too advanced for a beginner?

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banzer
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by banzer »

Both are perfectly decent boats. It all depends on what you want to get out of your kayaking. It's more 'normal' to start with a river runner or playboat, that is more tippy and hence teaches you to use your edges and get a feel for what different currents do to the boat. Whereas the ones you mention are designed for big / steep / boisterous water, so if you are starting out on grade 1 / 2 you might find you just bimble down without actually learning anything. If you start off with a creek boat then you have nothing left to aim towards! But still, I'm sure you'll be fine if you do choose one of these, just make sure you try and follow your buddies into all the little eddies and small surf waves..... don't just float straight down the middle or you'll come unstuck every time the middle line has an ugly big rock in the way.
A. Boater wrote:It's all Pierre's fault
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Xan
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Xan »

^What he said.

Liam98
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Liam98 »

Thanks that's really helpful

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Adrian Cooper »

And whilst you are doing that, think about this thread and smile

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... lit=eddies

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by gp.girl »

banzer wrote:Both are perfectly decent boats. It all depends on what you want to get out of your kayaking. It's more 'normal' to start with a river runner or playboat, that is more tippy and hence teaches you to use your edges and get a feel for what different currents do to the boat. Whereas the ones you mention are designed for big / steep / boisterous water, so if you are starting out on grade 1 / 2 you might find you just bimble down without actually learning anything. If you start off with a creek boat then you have nothing left to aim towards! But still, I'm sure you'll be fine if you do choose one of these, just make sure you try and follow your buddies into all the little eddies and small surf waves..... don't just float straight down the middle or you'll come unstuck every time the middle line has an ugly big rock in the way.
Currently paddling GTS (5 1 and 52kg). After spending rather too much time swimming getting encouraged to try something bigger and less tippy. Most of this involved dodgy paddling and crap lines but it is unforgiving at best. I have tried a small burn which went ok but there's no way I'll get the deck on with the longer cockpit. Should I take a break or stick with it?
I can roll :)

swiftgit
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by swiftgit »

Stick with it we all have bad spells i spent six mouth fulling over just trying to do simple thing like sculling but it has got better. This may change as I move on to more challenging water but "If you not swimming your not trying hard an ought" So keep trying and you will get it.

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by banzer »

gp.girl wrote: Currently paddling GTS (5 1 and 52kg). After spending rather too much time swimming getting encouraged to try something bigger and less tippy.
Getting a bigger boat isn't the answer, or you'll end up in a raft. Get some help with rolling in a pool then practice practice on gently moving water! Keep at it :-)
A. Boater wrote:It's all Pierre's fault
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by gp.girl »

Oh no not rolling again, remember this is the person who's not yet managed a t-rescue out of the pool! And I haven't been lacking in upsidedown moments to try it.

Although as long as my back is up to it I'm going to try nicking the nano for paddle free polo on friday after trying to keep my head down on the side of the pool :)
I can roll :)

Pete_Reading
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Pete_Reading »

I love my stomper but would say the displacement hull is not ideal for a beginner but the burn is a good choice if you like them (I don't but many do). It has a planning hull so will surf better too.

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by sprintpaddler »

Pete_Reading wrote:I love my stomper but would say the displacement hull is not ideal for a beginner but the burn is a good choice if you like them (I don't but many do). It has a planning hull so will surf better too.
Liam,
Pete`s post above I don`t think is correct. I bought my Stomper 90 because it has a planning (flat like the Burn ) hull! It surfs quite a bit better than the Burn. It`s a very stable platform like the Burn, but is more forgiving as the rails are not as pronounced. I thought the Burn a great boat, but since having the Stomper realise it`s superiority. It`s faster, tracks better, turns-in almost as well, & punches through holes with aplomb. I also find the Stomper has more room for my size 12`s!
I think either will be a good choice for you, but I`d choose the later design given the choice.

Cheers,
Ted.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Remember the photos of the front of both the Jefe and the Stomper when it first came out.

http://shanesliquidlogic.blogspot.co.uk ... logic.html

Mikers
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Mikers »

Liam
If you're just starting out Liam, by all means get a boat, but you should be aware that you'll probably want to change it soon.

There is no boat that's a good all rounder, until you've decided what discipline(s) you enjoy most you'll not really know what type of boat(s) to buy.

The boats you're talking about are fairly large volume whitewater boats. They are good on bigger rivers. The problem is that they'll do everything for you on the smaller rivers, so you'll miss the chance to learn how to control a boat properly. They'll also suck at surfing and sea kayaking and playboating and polo and slalom...

Are you with a club? Paddle their boats and get an idea of what you like and more importantly what type of water you want to paddle on.

GT.Girl
Stick with the GTS. It's not an unstable boat, the very opposite, it's flattish and wideish which makes it stable. BUT, it has pronounced edges that are low(er) to the water (than a big easy boat). When crossing an eddyline, you may need to lean a little to stop the tail edge catching. If you're fining the boat unforgiving, it's possible that you're sitting a bit too far back.

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by DaveBland »

Mikers wrote:Liam
If you're just starting out Liam, by all means get a boat, but you should be aware that you'll probably want to change it soon.

There is no boat that's a good all rounder, until you've decided what discipline(s) you enjoy most you'll not really know what type of boat(s) to buy.

The boats you're talking about are fairly large volume whitewater boats. They are good on bigger rivers. The problem is that they'll do everything for you on the smaller rivers, so you'll miss the chance to learn how to control a boat properly. They'll also suck at surfing and sea kayaking and playboating and polo and slalom...

Are you with a club? Paddle their boats and get an idea of what you like and more importantly what type of water you want to paddle on.

GT.Girl
Stick with the GTS. It's not an unstable boat, the very opposite, it's flattish and wideish which makes it stable. BUT, it has pronounced edges that are low(er) to the water (than a big easy boat). When crossing an eddyline, you may need to lean a little to stop the tail edge catching. If you're fining the boat unforgiving, it's possible that you're sitting a bit too far back.

Agree. Perfect.
dave

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by gp.girl »

Mikers wrote:Liam

GT.Girl
Stick with the GTS. It's not an unstable boat, the very opposite, it's flattish and wideish which makes it stable. BUT, it has pronounced edges that are low(er) to the water (than a big easy boat). When crossing an eddyline, you may need to lean a little to stop the tail edge catching. If you're fining the boat unforgiving, it's possible that you're sitting a bit too far back.
Will try moving seat forward next weekend before trying to find out how wet the river Mole is......
I can roll :)

osb
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by osb »

gp.girl wrote:
Mikers wrote:Liam

GT.Girl
Stick with the GTS. It's not an unstable boat, the very opposite, it's flattish and wideish which makes it stable. BUT, it has pronounced edges that are low(er) to the water (than a big easy boat). When crossing an eddyline, you may need to lean a little to stop the tail edge catching. If you're fining the boat unforgiving, it's possible that you're sitting a bit too far back.
Will try moving seat forward next weekend before trying to find out how wet the river Mole is......
It'll be wetter than the summer, that's for sure! Keep your wits about you, as it'll also be more tree-y...

Liam98
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Liam98 »

Thanks everyone this was really helpful
Liam

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Kayak-Bloke
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

Just to push home what's been said so far I'll chuck in my own story:
I started off as a sea kayaker and when I was making the transition to white Water I bought a Dagger Outlaw which was a basic but capable 'all rounder' of the day.
The one thing it was infamous for though was having a slicey back end.

I read loads of stuff about people getting caught out by the twitchy tail of this boat and thought about selling it until a wise and sagely WW paddler told me that chaging boats for something bigger would indeed stop me having tail happy moments but if I stuck with it I would soon learn to keep my weight forward when things got exciting.

I kept the boat and indeed I did soon learn to lean forward when things got exciting.

Many moons later (my faithful old Outlaw now a distant memory) I borrowed an buddie's Axiom (the boat of today that's known for a dippy stern). Not so much as one unintendo. The only time the tail dipped is when I wanted it to.
Because I had learned to paddle properly rather than just going with the easy option of getting a massive boat when I was learning.

I have several boats now and yep one of them is a big old tub but it's only used for chucking off stuff and when I might need to fish people out!

Cheers,

Nige

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Pete_Reading »

sprintpaddler wrote:
Pete_Reading wrote:I love my stomper but would say the displacement hull is not ideal for a beginner but the burn is a good choice if you like them (I don't but many do). It has a planning hull so will surf better too.
Liam,
Pete`s post above I don`t think is correct. I bought my Stomper 90 because it has a planning (flat like the Burn ) hull! It surfs quite a bit better than the Burn. It`s a very stable platform like the Burn, but is more forgiving as the rails are not as pronounced. I thought the Burn a great boat, but since having the Stomper realise it`s superiority. It`s faster, tracks better, turns-in almost as well, & punches through holes with aplomb. I also find the Stomper has more room for my size 12`s!
I think either will be a good choice for you, but I`d choose the later design given the choice.

Cheers,
Ted.

Ted, I am quite happy to be corrected. It is described by Liquid Logic as a semi planing hull not displacement I accept. A number of the things you say you like about it like the speed and tracking are related to the semi planing hull with some displacement to it, the Burn in my opinion is a true planing hull.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Adrian Cooper »

If the Burn had a ''true planing hull'' it wouldn't have the softer chines at the third points between the keel and rail as evidenced in this picture. Most modern freestyle boats have what I would describe as 'true planing hulls' since they do not have the additional chine.

Image

Adam-Evans22
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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Adam-Evans22 »

I learnt pretty much everything I know in a MK2 Burn. Only sold it towards the end of last year due to having eaten too many pies and now paddle a Zet Director as my proper river boat.

I have had a Dagger G-Force 6.3 which definitely taught me a lot due to the slicey nature but by the time i got this i already had an alrightish roll so it didn't put me off spending a lot of time upside down. I got rid of this and replaced with a Jackson Rockstar L which i love for messing about in at CIWW / Tryweryn in the Summer.

Paddling smaller / more slicey boats definitely improved my paddling in a big boat no end. But it was the big boat that gave me the confidence to get in the little ones.

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Pete_Reading »

Adrian Cooper wrote:If the Burn had a ''true planing hull'' it wouldn't have the softer chines at the third points between the keel and rail as evidenced in this picture. Most modern freestyle boats have what I would describe as 'true planing hulls' since they do not have the additional chine.

Image

Adrian and anyone else disagreeing with me I accept I was wrong and stand corrected.

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Re: Beginner kayaker

Post by Adrian Cooper »

It's part of my effort to be more positive on this forum so I avoided the use of expressions such as 'nah nah nanah nah'.

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