Euthanasia.

Inland paddling
Post Reply
WRK
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 am

Euthanasia.

Post by WRK »

I have seen a lot of "improving paddlers" have a roll/swim at Euthanasia recently. The majority on the boof line.

At low to medium levels the "boof line*" offers no tactical advantage** in comparison to the "gutter line".

Thoughts?

*Let's not get into a debate about the lines name.
**Apart from fun.

TonyM
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Somerset
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by TonyM »

What constitutes a 'tactical advantage"?

Mark Dixon
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Mark Dixon »

Its easy once you know how to run it, I used to be s**t scared to do it, a little bit of advice and havent done the shoot for a long time and doubt I'll bother with it again.
Mark

WRK
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by WRK »

TonyM wrote:What constitutes a 'tactical advantage"?
Puts you in a better position to run the drop before you consider technique.

Mark Dixon
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Mark Dixon »

When I look back at what tactical advantage I have gained or lost I have to disagree with you, from what I remember of running the shoot you are going in a straight line then suddenly turning left, many times I would wack into the wall, now I come from a different angle and I find it a lot easier to stay upright, there is no sudden left turn as I lean intowards the wall, I have the occasional backloop as I go through the 2nd holey/wavey bit but stay upright pretty much 95% of time

WRK
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by WRK »

Mark Dixon wrote:When I look back at what tactical advantage I have gained or lost I have to disagree with you
I am yet to decide.

User avatar
Simon Westgarth
Posts: 6568
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:05 pm
Location: Øyer in Norway
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Simon Westgarth »

WRK wrote:I have seen a lot of "improving paddlers" have a roll/swim at Euthanasia recently. The majority on the boof line.

At low to medium levels the "boof line*" offers no tactical advantage** in comparison to the "gutter line".
The right line, offers the clear tactical advance of right to left lateral momentum, and thus is easier than the classic central line. The classic line, has 2 turns, and at low water, the exit turn means the paddlers bounces off the wall, which is not really a controlled way to enjoy the river.

Where people get in trouble is that they simply place a left stroke on their upriver side as they past through the slot, the boat slows down as it hits the pressure wave, but the upriver blade is gripped on the down river flow under the wave, and this simply corkscrews them over. The solution is easy, work the downriver side on the right side of the boat, so when you go through the slot the paddle is parallel to the boat on the right. See here for more help.

WRK
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by WRK »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
WRK wrote:I have seen a lot of "improving paddlers" have a roll/swim at Euthanasia recently. The majority on the boof line.

At low to medium levels the "boof line*" offers no tactical advantage** in comparison to the "gutter line".
The right line, offers the clear tactical advance of right to left lateral momentum, and thus is easier than the classic central line. The classic line, has 2 turns, and at low water, the exit turn means the paddlers bounces off the wall, which is not really a controlled way to enjoy the river.

Where people get in trouble is that they simply place a left stroke on their upriver side as they past through the slot, the boat slows down as it hits the pressure wave, but the upriver blade is gripped on the down river flow under the wave, and this simply corkscrews them over. The solution is easy, work the downriver side on the right side of the boat, so when you go through the slot the paddle is parallel to the boat on the right. See here for more help.

With little coaching, Ok skills and a hit and miss roll (a lot of club scenarios). I have seen more success people running the high on the gutter line. It relies on them dealing with the mess and reacting rather than the "boof line" which is doing something pro active and with some conviction, something that nervy paddlers don't seem to do? This leads to them being swamped in the slot, blinded and eventually flipped by un even pressure on their deck.

I am no doubting in the long run its the more efficient line but if trying to get a team down at lapping the slab levels I'm doubtful.

User avatar
Patrick Clissold
Posts: 1740
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: New Zealand
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Patrick Clissold »

Only just discovered, the 1 stroke, head dry every time left line on it. Just need to set up properly at the top.

User avatar
Randy Fandango
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:10 pm
Location: London/Kent/Somewhere flat and dry

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Randy Fandango »

Patrick Clissold wrote:Only just discovered, the 1 stroke, head dry every time left line on it. Just need to set up properly at the top.
If you mean the 'left of the rapid right of the island' route then that's the only line I've ever swum on Euthanasia after pogoing down it on my noggin once :-)
Giles

User avatar
Patrick Clissold
Posts: 1740
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: New Zealand
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Patrick Clissold »

Randy Fandango wrote:
Patrick Clissold wrote:Only just discovered, the 1 stroke, head dry every time left line on it. Just need to set up properly at the top.
If you mean the 'left of the rapid right of the island' route then that's the only line I've ever swum on Euthanasia after pogoing down it on my noggin once :-)
Giles
No still right of the island just as far left as you can go.

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6282
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by morsey »

Boof line is easier in low water as you are (if you go far enough right) facing in the exit direction, with momentum, as you land the boof.
Proper high water (Up the steps) for me is: flow into the right channel above the rapid as normal, no stopping, take a right to left traverse clipping through the guard tree and stomp as far left as possible to get onto the left cushion (The gutter line with water!) on the island and avoid the pit, before scooting back across to river right to avoid the boulder pour over that occurs river left below Euth.
Medium/High flow tend to alternate between the boof and the gutter/cushion.


The central line is for sunny day top rock spin entry, through the guts and rock spin finish.

rhysb
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 7:42 pm

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by rhysb »

WRK wrote:
Simon Westgarth wrote:
WRK wrote:I have seen a lot of "improving paddlers" have a roll/swim at Euthanasia recently. The majority on the boof line.

At low to medium levels the "boof line*" offers no tactical advantage** in comparison to the "gutter line".
The right line, offers the clear tactical advance of right to left lateral momentum, and thus is easier than the classic central line. The classic line, has 2 turns, and at low water, the exit turn means the paddlers bounces off the wall, which is not really a controlled way to enjoy the river.

Where people get in trouble is that they simply place a left stroke on their upriver side as they past through the slot, the boat slows down as it hits the pressure wave, but the upriver blade is gripped on the down river flow under the wave, and this simply corkscrews them over. The solution is easy, work the downriver side on the right side of the boat, so when you go through the slot the paddle is parallel to the boat on the right. See here for more help.

With little coaching, Ok skills and a hit and miss roll (a lot of club scenarios). I have seen more success people running the high on the gutter line. It relies on them dealing with the mess and reacting rather than the "boof line" which is doing something pro active and with some conviction, something that nervy paddlers don't seem to do? This leads to them being swamped in the slot, blinded and eventually flipped by un even pressure on their deck.

I am no doubting in the long run its the more efficient line but if trying to get a team down at lapping the slab levels I'm doubtful.

Good thread Liam and something that i have been giving thought to over the last few days.

Simon, as always provides a great detailed answer.

Liam you hit the nail on the head with this is something that "nervy paddlers dont seem to do". This is what i have been pondering and trying to work out how to address the issue. Particularly when you have a paddler who is more than capable of engaging the active right stoke, but does not.

My thinking is that the upper dart has a bit of an aura about it leading o the perception that it is "hard", "something beyond me" or "for expert paddlers only"

Then there are two famous rapids that are perceived to be even harder. You then get a "Boof line" or a "hero line". this leads to a build up of preconception that it is harder (Personally i think it is an easier and better line).

So you have someone set up with the skills and the knowledge of what to do, but they still miss the key stoke. To me it seems that there are psychological issues rather than anything technical or tactical. They simply get themselves physced out at the top flop of the boof and land on a upstream stoke, bobs your uncle there over. So you need to address the psychological side, and get the right hand (downstream) stoke to the top of the thought process.

User avatar
Randy Fandango
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:10 pm
Location: London/Kent/Somewhere flat and dry

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Randy Fandango »

Patrick Clissold wrote:
Randy Fandango wrote:
Patrick Clissold wrote:Only just discovered, the 1 stroke, head dry every time left line on it. Just need to set up properly at the top.
If you mean the 'left of the rapid right of the island' route then that's the only line I've ever swum on Euthanasia after pogoing down it on my noggin once :-)
Giles
No still right of the island just as far left as you can go.
Err -- think that's where I meant :-)
Giles

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Jim »

rhysb wrote:My thinking is that the upper dart has a bit of an aura about it leading o the perception that it is "hard", "something beyond me" or "for expert paddlers only"
Given that the meteoric rise in paddling skills appears to have lead to a certain amount of complacency and/or downgrading of harder rapids/rivers in general over the last few years, and considering another current thread - I wonder if this might not be a good thing?

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6282
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by morsey »

Not sure about that Jim, the Upper Dart isn't hard in the whole scheme of things! I'm way off the ability level I was before the last two sets of surgery, but can still bust the Upper Dart day in, day out, averaging 40 mins for a cruise. I'll draw the line at one step levels, for the mo until I get properly back on it, but the Plym, Walkham, Lyn, with high water, are a much more considerable undertaking. The Upper is the bench mark for class four, not for the higher echelons of paddling!

The point Rhys makes, I've seen time and again, predominantly from within clubs, and often by those who are at their upper limits on that section (Just an observation) and is often a barrier that needs to be de-constructed before some paddlers can really get to grips with the river. For instance, there is one person I've been trying to get to come to the river for over a year and they are still in the mind set that their club instilled! Also the name Euthanasia doesn't help, nor does the convoluted pile of rocks that make up Surprise Surprise (I fully understand why people walk around it). The river is quite within the reach of many paddlers.


Two runs on the upper today, all of the lines! Levels are looking to hold all weekend, enjoy. :-)

Mark Dixon
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Mark Dixon »

SS is another one of those rapids that once you know how to run it its easy, I must admit as soon as its below ledge my prefered line is the path on RR seen loads of pins in low levels as the RL eddy is guarded by rocks, ironically the only accident I've seen there was someone portaging broke his leg a couple years ago

User avatar
buck197
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Plymouth
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by buck197 »

Morsey I'm not sure it's a club mindset with me, I keep seeing my peers go up to Dartmeet and take a beating. When a paddler of my ability gets beaten up, I take the message onboard and my anxiety and fear grow exponentially. I would love to be able to give it a go but alarm bells rings.
Brian Taylor
Paddle Pirates

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6282
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by morsey »

Find some paddlers you trust, and know will go at your pace, and give it a go!

User avatar
Kayak-Bloke
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: (Ever Wet) South Wales

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

The thing with Upper is not just its reputation but the continuous nature of the river. Few other rivers in the UK are that long and yet so wonderfully unrelenting at the grade. My first run ever I paddled to the lip of Euthanasia, another paddler pulled out in front of me and swam and my resolve left me completly. I watched while my group ran it over and over with a fair few rolls but no other swims
. It's one of those weird head games that paddling has; the feature is so (in) famous I think out has gained a reputation beyond its difficulty.

WRK
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by WRK »

Few weeks ago I ran three laps of the Upper. In regards to SuprisebSuprise I walked it left, right and paddled it smothly.

Each gave me the same feeling of success. When it's bigger I like it

SimonMW
Posts: 2203
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by SimonMW »

I'm always apprehensive about the upper even though I have only ever run it at low levels. I think it may well be its continuous nature. Most UK rivers are fairly broken up with short rapids, while with the Dart you need to be pretty much on it continuously. Also unlike many UK rivers the Dart seems to have a lot of oomph behind it even at low levels. Speaking as a lay paddler.

On the other hand guides are terrible. The way many of them are written doesn't often represent reality. Many of them seem to be written from the point of view of a long time ago or assume high levels.

Case in point is the Tawe. Now one of my favourite rivers. When I first ran the middle I really didn't want to! And it was all because the written guides had persuaded me that death awaited around every corner.

What they failed to mention was that at low levels it's a really good fun G3-G3+ run and not a G5 monster.

User avatar
roo
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:11 am
Location: Chester
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by roo »

Never boofed always gutter, but there's no need for speed on that line, just placement.

WRT to grading, think about the first time you ran the Upper Dart.

To mere mortals it is steep, you can see the gradient on this run.

If you're being led down by an "expert" then you can probably take a grade off the guidebook grade - discuss.

SimonMW
Posts: 2203
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by SimonMW »

If you're being led down by an "expert" then you can probably take a grade off the guidebook grade - discuss.
No, I can vouch that swims hurt just as much when being led by an expert as when simply paddling with friends!

User avatar
DaveBland
Posts: 3659
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Calgary Canada
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by DaveBland »

It's a good run for sure, but not significantly better/ harder than the ogwen, duddon or any of the other UK classics. It deserves respect, but no more than any other...
There is deffo a case of many rivers having a reputation that puts folks off. This probably stems from years ago when things were 'harder' . Look at the Glen. It used to be for the higher end paddlers only. Not now...
dave

JonC
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: Weymouth, Dorset

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by JonC »

Higher flows, riding the cushion left of the trench works beautifully. If it's low, drop down the slot and get ready for the flick with the right paddle that Simon describes so well.

What a section it is: the only English section of genuine rapids where you can see the gradient when sat in the eddies.

Roo: paddling with someone who knows it certainly takes out the uncertaintity of where the feature rapids are. SS for example looks pretty innocuous as you approach it

chimpson
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by chimpson »

I am that improving paddler of which you speak & the reputation/press call it what you will, plays a big part in the "head game" that is paddling, for what it's worth, I was first shown the trench/shoot which I survived fine(seversl times), more recently the Boof (sold on its direct line approach making it easier) but also badged (by others) the "Hero's Line" which on my first attempt resulted in a swim (my first on Euthanasia), is it better, done right probably yes, but if like me, you don't get the approach right, make a half arsed Boof, you arrive at the bottom, on the wrong paddle stroke, ill prepared for the right turn & confluence it's not so good

So what is the best route, well that's down to the individual I'd say the trench is easier, having had no issues with it previously, but I'll be trying the Boof in future so that view will in all likely hood change as I develop skills

and then the levels change like today when we cut left under a tree, onto a tongue of green left of the main channel and shot out the bottom

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Jim »

JonC wrote:Roo: paddling with someone who knows it certainly takes out the uncertaintity of where the feature rapids are. SS for example looks pretty innocuous as you approach it
Interesting you should say that!

Just spent a weekend canoeing on rivers I mostly ran 20 years ago under your leadership with a couple of lads who have never run them. One of them was the middle Spean, which we I'm sure we ran in January '94, but I recall it was one that no-one had done before. I remember we were all rafted up messing about and chatting when someone said what's that, sounds like a rapid?" at which point we remembered the guidebook mentioned a 2m drop (railway bridge falls). We must have had good survival instincts back then because almost everyone managed to find an eddy somewhere to the right (or centre right) and was able to get onto the chute or portage. Except the guy paddling C1 who broke left and was forced to run the horseshoe fall on the left which is impossible to protect.

Today we went right in plenty of time to scout it (actually too early). I did run the main chute in the Ocoee but the bigger boats needed to scrape/walk down the very far right. Makes a massive difference knowing roughly what's coming up even if I didn't really remember the other rapids (although I have a recollection of treating a lad for hypothermia on a ledge on a different trip, but no recollection of the rapid that lead down to it!). It's not a section I have done much, 4 or 5 times total....

Canoeing is the new black!

User avatar
Mark R
Posts: 24139
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:17 pm
Location: Dorset
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Mark R »

A few weeks back, I watched a friend take the left 'sneak route', then somehow deflect right out of that and perform a perfect 'grind' along the just-covered central rocks, before joining the normal RH 'gutter' channel and running that down to the end.

I'm pretty confident that Lizzie's line will never be repeated.
Mark Rainsley
FACEBOOK

Bod
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: Exeter

Re: Euthanasia.

Post by Bod »

Mark R wrote:A few weeks back, I watched a friend take the left 'sneak route', then somehow deflect right out of that and perform a perfect 'grind' along the just-covered central rocks, before joining the normal RH 'gutter' channel and running that down to the end.

I'm pretty confident that Lizzie's line will never be repeated.
Funnily enough I just came back to this thread to report seeing a 'new line' using the central rocks, we saw the same or similar to the above happen twice yesterday. It was a group all new to the river finding their own way down as much as possible.
John B.

Post Reply

Return to “Whitewater and Touring”