Out of interest

Inland paddling
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tomdowns
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Out of interest

Post by tomdowns » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:11 pm

What features would you expect in a boat that cost over £1000? I have quite a few mates who mountain bike and they can easily spend several grand on parts for their bikes. Would it need to be some revolutionary new material or would the quality of the finish and outfitting do it for ya?

Tom

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neilfarmer
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Post by neilfarmer » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:40 pm

super light and indestructable plastic.
Neil Farmer.

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:22 pm

Boring, but I would like the storage issue sorted for kit...e.g. sealable compartments behind/ under/ beside the seat.

Various manufacturers have dabbled in this area, none have cracked it.
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rach
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Post by rach » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:12 pm

Canoe polo players can easily pay over £1000 for their polo kayaks.
Ouch!

andy i
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Post by andy i » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:05 pm

Firstly if I was spending over £1000 on a kayak it would have to be a full carbon sea kayak.

Now you say your friends spend £1000 plus on kit for mountain biking.

Work out how much your paddling kit costs.

eg
Play boat £750
Creak boat £750
Paddles £150+
Cag £175
Deck £75
Dry Trousers £90
Helmet £100
Thermal Tops £40 each x2
Thermal Trousers £40
Wet Shorts £40
Shorty Cag £60+
Dry Bags £20+
Throw Bags £20+
Other bits and bobs e.g. Slings, Crabs, Rack Guard,
Roof Rack Straps etc £100

Now even if you only take into acount one boat thats still £1600 and I'm sure there are loads of other bits that I have not taken into acount here.

Now in the same way that you can pick up a mountain bike for just a few £100 pounds people also get out on the water paddling for the same sort of money. It realy only is when you get to the top end of a sport that it starts to cost loads of money for the top kit.

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Post by Zoe Newsam » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:19 pm

andy I wrote:Firstly if I was spending over £1000 on a kayak it would have to be a full carbon sea kayak.
Ahem, probably more in the region of £2500...

bugs bunny
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Post by bugs bunny » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:39 pm

A tracking device.

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Patrick
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Post by Patrick » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:08 am

It is something that struck me when I first got into boating. If you wan't to buy a new, plastic, white water kayak, it will cost about £700. maybe +/- 20%, but in most other walks of comerse top of the range models cost 10 times budget ones, sometimes more.
I suppose it is just he simplisity of manufacture and design. 100 man hours of skilled craftmanship couldn't improve a platic boat. And good designs are made by small teams / individuals.

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StoneWeasel
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Post by StoneWeasel » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:54 am

If I was spending over a grand on a kayak it would have to be a full kevlar surf boat lighter than the 88, faster than the Jester Cyclone and with more radical performance than the Future Release.

If someone can build me one you can have a grand or a kidney, your choice!

DannyT
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Post by DannyT » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:18 am

Rach wrote:Canoe polo players can easily pay over £1000 for their polo kayaks.
Ouch!
And some squirt boats if your ordering from USA, So it includes PandP.

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Post by ken hughes » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:36 am

I would want it to be a Canoe!
to the dull mind nature is leaden, but to the illuminated it burns and crackles with light

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banzer
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Post by banzer » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:51 am

for when you're feeling lazy / tired / cold:
- self- righting mechanism
- instant 'end' button
- turbo- boof button
- KIT's voice saying, 'I calculate that river left has a 70% likelihood of a trashing Michael'.

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Adrian Cooper
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Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:53 am

Mad River Explorer 16 in kevlar retails at just under £2,000

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fast n bulbous
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Post by fast n bulbous » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:07 pm

retractable fins
Chris Haydon

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:43 pm

I really don't think it's a good comparison, a mountain bike has a lot of precision machined moving parts in exotic (light) materials. A kayak by comparison is a bit of blow or roto moulded polythene with some other bits of polythene screwed or bolted in at roughly similar positions. My bike originally cost a lot less than my kayak (any of them) but I have gradually upgraded it with more expensive, more precise, lighter parts and it really does make a huge difference over the cheapo stuff it started out with (I suspect the total of parts is over £1000 although the bike will not be worth that). I recently switched headset and handlebars (OK I damaged my bars in a crash and the headset was getting a bit rough from time as well as the crash) spending about £150 and cutting I think it was 300g from the front of my bike (which is nose heavy because of the fork I use) - it doesn't sound like much but I do notice it, apart from the weight the feel of the new bars is different and I like that too, the headset was a bit lighter but with sealed bearings should last many years.

The features I would like to see in kayaks is lighter weight. Perhaps a bit more flexibility around the backband area for getting gear past it and better lashing points to keep it all there but to be honest I'm quite happy for the hull to be the main feature, I still think the cost is inflated for what is basically a large bit of tupperware though!

Direct comparisons are hard, I recently spent nearly £1500 on new race kites - not even a full set but enough to cover most situations, I need to spend the same again to get what I consider a full set and that's not including a £600 kite that I already had. Unfortunately I doubt if I'll even get £600 for the old set of kites (such is racing) which I am replacing. And that's not including the buggy - mine has probably cost around £500-600 all up but I built a lot of it myself. The best value for money race buggy I know of is £800, and as soon as I am totally happy with my setup I'll get the guy to copy mine which will cost a little more than that but less than some of the other "mass" produced race buggies. I can't even begin to compare all that with kayaking - a lot of the parts are ridiculously expensive, the kites are labour intensive to build but I still feel there is much more engineering going into pretty much every component than in most kayaks.

In some ways I wish that kayaking was all I do because it's relatively cheap!

JIM

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tomdowns
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Post by tomdowns » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:50 pm

Talking of new materials, does anyone know whats happening with the development of that composite/plastic that robson were going to use in their new whitewater boats?

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mharrall
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Post by mharrall » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:56 pm

I would like it to come with £500 cash back!
Martin

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StoneWeasel
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Post by StoneWeasel » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:51 pm

banzer wrote:- KIT's voice saying, 'I calculate that river left has a 70% likelihood of a trashing Michael'.
Now that I would like. Make any kayak instantly worth a grand :)

Sam the assistant
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Post by Sam the assistant » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:11 pm

I would pay £1000 for boomerang equipment.

Such as, slings, Krabs roofrack straps that once used for the purpose they were lent out instantly fly back into the boot of my car.
'It seemed like a good idea at the time' - the most heard phrase in A&E

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Pete C.
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Post by Pete C. » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:20 pm

spending about £150 and cutting I think it was 300g from the front of my bike
Jim - you could get a haircut for less than a tenner. Far better value for money ;-)

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Post by buck197 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:33 pm

Picking up on the stowage comment, its about time it was standard on all boats. In reverse logic it sort of encourages paddlers to travel light without safety kit! It cannot be rocket science surely?

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mharrall
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Post by mharrall » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:47 am

Talking of new materials, does anyone know whats happening with the development of that composite/plastic that robson were going to use in their new whitewater boats?
Armalite, yes they are using it in one of thier C1 designs. Not sure why they haven't started using it for kayaks though.

PS. The C1 in question is £1400!!!!
Martin

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