What paddling car - update

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yabbadabba
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What paddling car - update

Post by yabbadabba » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:52 pm

I did a post a couple of weeks ago asking about cars for moving kayaks about and paddle trips.
After some really good replys and a little bit of thought I have a new set of targets which leads to one main question.

Reason for this question is as below.

1 - Car needs to be as economical to run as possible for daily communting and this is going to be 90% of its use. This rules out large estate cars.
2 - Running costs need to be low so the car needs to be in the £30 or £120 a year tax bracket.
3 - The car will be used for family days out and will need to sit 3-4 people so this rules out small vans.
4 - The car will only be used for 1 or 2 trips a month to whitewater centres/cornwall/Dartmoor with a round trip of up to 300 miles so kayaks in the car is a better option.

Small estate cars are already on the list but there is a such a choice of hatchbacks that they are cheaper to buy, slightly better on MPG and insurance qoutes are coming in slightly cheaper.

So the question is, what hatch back is in the £30/£120 tax bracket, diesel, returns good mpg and you have had 2 x playboats in the back with the boot lid shut and 2 people sat up front.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by blackdog » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:22 pm

One suggestion which meets, (and beats) all your criteria except the very last one, is a VW polo.

Sadly you can't get two kayaks in the back of a Polo, but I'd suggest the extra fuel consumption from two boats & a roof rack twice a month is negligible compared to the other savings; my Polo costs £20 a year to tax, and less than £200 to insure.

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Jim
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Jim » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:35 pm

How far is your daily commute and on what type of roads? Short journeys don't suit diesels very well, the newer the diesel the less suitable it is for short journeys as a rule due to the emissions nonsense that has been crammed into them.

You will have much better choice of small cars if you have the passenger sit behind you instead of in the front - even something tiny like a Clio would probably work then.

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StuartA
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by StuartA » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:07 pm

Skoda Octavia - the "saloons" are actually hatchbacks and they have loads of room - seriously worth a look. Some are even in the £0 tax band.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by banzer » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:37 pm

I would think 'outside the box' a bit and go for the Panda 4x4 petrol with roof racks.... then you can off-road to the put in of Mosedale Beck, upper upper Roy, etc.! Seriously considering getting one myself! I know your economy will be worse on a longer trip but that's only 10% of your time....
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by DaveBland » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:51 pm

Given the variation in cost and condition of second hand cars, I'd go for what you can get for a good price, rather than being too prescriptive – as any savings you make from a good deal, could well outweigh the ongoing running cost difference between models.
dave

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by snuggle_bunny » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:48 pm

theres no such thing as the ideal car and buying a 2nd hand one is a lottery. question is- do you go for the car or the deal. i was thinking of a small van but went for a diesel estate- it meets all my needs- and some. 50+ to the gallon and i can get 2 boats in the back so no roof bars which is great for the fuel consumption. depends on what you're prepared to compromise on as something will have to give

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boater rich
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by boater rich » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:08 am

Fabia Estate 1.9 TDI:50+ mpg, can squeeze a playboat into it. We took 4 people + boats to Norway and the alps in one.
Its a super mini with a supersized boot. Will easily fit 2 adults + 2 kids.

Now have an Octavia which is brilliant - but a bit more thirsty.

As Jim says - if you buy a modern Diesel short runs aren't great, make sure you give it a run which gets the engine up to a good temperature weekly otherwise the DPF will cause problems.

Rich

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Sickboy
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Sickboy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:28 am

Are you buying new or used?
If used then make sure you go in with your eyes open, condition is all, even on a 3 year old car some will be showing signs of abuse/neglect. Condition first.
If I had the wedge to spend on a new car it'd be a blue motion golf estate, average mpg 83!!!!! Thats what £20k buys you I suppose, my good ladys 03 plate 1.6 petrol struggles to get above 35mpg on the motorway, with or without boats, but I'm sold on Golf nowadays (although the new polo is massive now so if you want a hatchback that may be the way to go).

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Jim
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Jim » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:31 am

Sickboy wrote: but I'm sold on Golf nowadays

{snip}

Middle aged
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So you have given up canoeing then?
:-)

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Sickboy
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Sickboy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:53 am

Jim wrote:
Sickboy wrote: but I'm sold on Golf nowadays

{snip}

Middle aged
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So you have given up canoeing then?
:-)
Nope, just on style, speed and everything else that getting old and fatherhood stops you caring about....
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yabbadabba
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by yabbadabba » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:21 am

The question is, what hatch back is in the £30/£120 tax bracket, diesel, returns good mpg and you have had 2 x playboats in the back with the boot lid shut and 2 people sat up front.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Yew » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:46 am

I can do that im my Mk3 mondeo diesel, and it gets around 45mpg with 4 boats on the roof, full of kit and people.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by hbcanoekayak » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:49 am

Astra 1.3 CDTI - £90 a year tax, good MPG - downside is they can be a bit flat when cold. Had a chap in the shop the other day with two playboats in the back. The Estate is exactly the same Tax wise - 6 speed good MPG and loads of space, i had one for a year or so but swapped it for a Vectra estate (so i can get creekers or 4 redlines in the back)

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by canoeboy101 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:58 pm

+1 on the Skoda fabia 1.9tdi, incidentally there is one on the for sale page!! Only selling as i need to buy an austrian car otherwise i would be keeping it!

Done me several trips to the alps, and holidays in Corsica and Switzerland. Tons of space, can sleep in the back but easy enough to drive in cities.

Let me know if anyone wants photos!

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by fryingpancat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:10 pm

What's your budget? That'll make a massive difference in what cars you'll be looking at so would be useful. Also I'd drop the tax requirement, for example a diesel may have cheap tax but cost more in maintenance, parts etc. so look at the whole cost of maintenance rather than arbitrary things like the tax cost, after all £100 extra tax once a year could be peanuts compared to repair costs if you get a diesel with a dpf for lots of short journeys for example.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by plopster256 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:30 pm

I've got a Skoda Octavia with the SDI Engine. It doesn't have a turbo so got hilariously slow acceleration but still goes fast enough (18 Seconds 0-60)... but it's Cheap to insure and you can fit 2 playboats in the back with the rear seats down + a creek boat if your crafty. You can pick them up for a grand and they go for ever, much better than a Skoda Labia.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by davebrads » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:13 pm

I think Yabbadabba is being a bit unrealistic. I you remember from his first thread the budget was £1000 (most people replying to this thread seem to be unaware of this). I reckon it is just about impossible to spend a grand on a secondhand car and get something in the £30-£120 tax bracket

You are not going to get a diesel anything that is worth risking a grand on. So that leaves petrol. You can get a small hatchback for a grand within that tax bracket just about, but it is going to have had a very hard life.

The only way to get a car that has a good chance of running long enough to see its next MOT for a grand is to go for the kind of car nobody wants. So that means getting something like a 2.0 petrol Mondeo and putting up with the tax.
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:41 pm

I bought a low mileage second hand car once and the salesman told me it was owned by a vicar’s wife. You need to look for one like that.

I have a friend who always buys cheap cars. He has a policy of not spending more than £400 and, if it needs more than £250 spending on it, he gets rid of it. His current car has been going for about 4-5 years. I think it’s just luck.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Voodoo » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:57 pm

I need to get a car at the min and my criteria is simples it must fit my roof rack, so any car that has rails I will look at, no rails no look see,
just found a nice Renault Laguna est 100,000 miles just over 1 grand, at that price if I can get few years out of it I am happy plus I don't have to give a crap about it getting bashed or scraped, and in turn I shall drive it into the ground I don't ever expect to sell on my cars other than to the scrappy
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Sickboy
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Sickboy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:03 pm

davebrads wrote: You are not going to get a diesel anything that is worth risking a grand on. So that leaves petrol. You can get a small hatchback for a grand within that tax bracket just about, but it is going to have had a very hard life.

The only way to get a car that has a good chance of running long enough to see its next MOT for a grand is to go for the kind of car nobody wants. So that means getting something like a 2.0 petrol Mondeo and putting up with the tax.
Spot on, all I would add to that is NO fords or vauxhalls, nothing italian or french......Cheap Japanese hatchbacks driven by elderly ladies, I was offered a Honda civic 1.6 on an M plate not so long ago, 57k on the clock and full H service history, £600, only downside it was an auto and a cat c write off (dent behind drivers door you could live with), many years of cheap motoring for some lucky buyer.
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by fryingpancat » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:28 pm

Sickboy wrote:
davebrads wrote: You are not going to get a diesel anything that is worth risking a grand on. So that leaves petrol. You can get a small hatchback for a grand within that tax bracket just about, but it is going to have had a very hard life.

The only way to get a car that has a good chance of running long enough to see its next MOT for a grand is to go for the kind of car nobody wants. So that means getting something like a 2.0 petrol Mondeo and putting up with the tax.
Spot on, all I would add to that is NO fords or vauxhalls, nothing italian or french......Cheap Japanese hatchbacks driven by elderly ladies, I was offered a Honda civic 1.6 on an M plate not so long ago, 57k on the clock and full H service history, £600, only downside it was an auto and a cat c write off (dent behind drivers door you could live with), many years of cheap motoring for some lucky buyer.
Why no fords or vauxhalls? I know they're suckers for rust but if you find a clean example surely they should be ideal, cheap to run and spares are abundant

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by MikeB » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:35 pm

I ran an old petrol T plated Mondeo for 5 years with nothing significant in the way of repair costs - I only got rid when the rust round the rear wheel arches started to become a bit of an embarrassment from a "business perspective". It ended up costing me £1.66 a day overall (depreciation / the few necessary repairs it had - but ex normal expenses like tires and services etc) which worked out as seriously cheap motoring. It was replaced with a somewhat newer Audi which has cost rather more in repairs so far than the Ford ever did.

I think it's worth considering petrol instead of diesel - when you look at the price differential, petrol cost per mile isn't much different and they tend to be cheaper anyway.

But do be wary of anything French! Good lovers, good cooks - dreadful mechanics or engineers! Mike

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nene ben
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by nene ben » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:16 pm

Audi A3 estate? They do the 1.9tdi engine in the £30 tax bracket and does high 50's mpg. They do different versions of the same engine, look for the ones with the 8 spoke alloy's they seem to be the eco version, they started making them in 2004 so you should be able to pick up a high miler for £3-4k. Not sure if you can get two playboats in the back or not but you can definitely get one in easily.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by yabbadabba » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:26 am

Well it seems people are struggling with the question.

Again.

So the question is, what hatch back is in the £30/£120 tax bracket, diesel, returns good mpg and you have had 2 x playboats in the back with the boot lid shut and 2 people sat up front.

In reply to - I think Yabbadabba is being a bit unrealistic. I you remember from his first thread the budget was £1000 (most people replying to this thread seem to be unaware of this). I reckon it is just about impossible to spend a grand on a secondhand car and get something in the £30-£120 tax bracket.

Buying a decent car for £500 to a £1000 is easy, it just takes knowledge and common sense.

But its what hatchback is available that I can get 2 x playboats in and seat 2 people in the front that is really of interest to me.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Pete C. » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:46 am

If you can stretch the budget a bit I'd say that a Skoda Octavia estate with the 1.9 diesel engine is pretty much the perfect paddling car. It'll take a couple of playboats inside, and either four creekers or an awful lot of squirt boats on top. It's both frugal and easy to drive on those long distance motorway trips, and they're so reliable that I've kept mine for the last eight years! You'll have to step up to the £140 tax bracket, scrape together a few hundred quid more and find one in good condition, but it's seriously worth considering.

As a bit of a plug, I'm going to list mine on Autotrader next week (I'm only selling it to replace it with another Skoda). If anyone's interested, here's a bit of a sneak preview - get in touch if you want a look!

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Voodoo » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:23 pm

^ Roof rails that fits my criteria !
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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Chalky723 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:30 pm

yabbadabba wrote:Well it seems people are struggling with the question.

Again.

So the question is, what hatch back is in the £30/£120 tax bracket, diesel, returns good mpg and you have had 2 x playboats in the back with the boot lid shut and 2 people sat up front.

In reply to - I think Yabbadabba is being a bit unrealistic. I you remember from his first thread the budget was £1000 (most people replying to this thread seem to be unaware of this). I reckon it is just about impossible to spend a grand on a secondhand car and get something in the £30-£120 tax bracket.

Buying a decent car for £500 to a £1000 is easy, it just takes knowledge and common sense.

But its what hatchback is available that I can get 2 x playboats in and seat 2 people in the front that is really of interest to me.
Here's a thought - have a look on Auto-Trader at what is available within your budget, travelling distance & fits your other criteria.

Once you've whittled it down a bit, put a list of the ones you can find that match and that you'd like opinions of & we'll oblige.

Implying that the people you're asking for advice don't have knowledge and common sense comes across as arrogant TBH & isn't likely to make them bother to help you.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by yabbadabba » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:00 pm

Skoda Octavia estate is on the list if one turns up at the right price.

In reply to - Here's a thought - have a look on Auto-Trader at what is available within your budget, travelling distance & fits your other criteria.
Once you've whittled it down a bit, put a list of the ones you can find that match and that you'd like opinions of & we'll oblige.
Implying that the people you're asking for advice don't have knowledge and common sense comes across as arrogant TBH & isn't likely to make them bother to help you.

I dont need an opinion, its if people have actually managed to get 2 x playboats in the back of a hatchback thats of interest. Dont mean to be arrogant, didnt imply any one has a lack of common sense either.

The reason for asking if kayakers have had 2 x playboats in the back of any hatchback is because kayakers are the most likely people to have done it, other wise it means I have to upset car salesmen buy trying them out on a forecourt :-)

I know the estate is the most likely and best option but if I can squeeze 2 x playboats in the back of a hatchback it would tick a few other boxes as well.

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Re: What paddling car - update

Post by Jim » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:03 am

You are looking for a car that doesn't exist.
I cannot get 2 playboats behind the front seats of a full sized hatchback, I can get 2 in but not without using the passenger seat.

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