High Force

Inland paddling
pickenjohn
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Re: High Force

Post by pickenjohn »

HI mikeyd
WTF but after that i have known others who soloed and did stupid stuff, even done a little myself but nothing like that. A young lad I knew doing Point 5 and Zero solo with water running down behind the ice. Seems no point but I can follow your: once the idea starts it just runs through. Hope you can use your video make a video to present how you felt, what went on in you at the time, where you were coming from. Perhaps how you feel now.
Look forward to that. And glad you survived and are of relatively sound mind.

mikeyd
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Re: High Force

Post by mikeyd »

Here is the new film as promised . I've switched to Vimeo as youtube is a bit annoying so at the moment this is the only video out there, the raw footage isn't back up yet. It went through a few incarnations but in the end I got tired of talking about my feelings so I just went with what felt right in terms of how to tell the story. I hope you'll find it of some worth, for me it means I can move on from the whole thing now. I'm not much of a techno wizard so I apologise for any production issues with the film, also the original was in full HD but my computer threw a fit when I tried to upload it. Anyway, there it is, watch it quick before I get in trouble for the soundtrack copyrights...
Never turn your back on the Sea.

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Big Henry
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Re: High Force

Post by Big Henry »

I think it's earned its retirement
(Not getting at you at all but) I think there's something quite sad about boats that have been retired and hung up in the garage/shed to collect cobwebs and dust. It was made to run white water and allow its owner to have fun and adventures, but now is sad, lonely and soon to be forgotten. It's like Ferraris and other shoppers cars-they should be taken out and driven at least once in a while, not left to stand in a garage somewhere. Maybe I just put too much personification into inanimate objects!

mikeyd
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Re: High Force

Post by mikeyd »

Big Henry wrote:
I think it's earned its retirement
(Not getting at you at all but) I think there's something quite sad about boats that have been retired and hung up in the garage/shed to collect cobwebs and dust. It was made to run white water and allow its owner to have fun and adventures, but now is sad, lonely and soon to be forgotten. It's like Ferraris and other shoppers cars-they should be taken out and driven at least once in a while, not left to stand in a garage somewhere. Maybe I just put too much personification into inanimate objects!
I totally agree, but it's only retiring from getting kicked in the face every time it gets taken out, it's still my kayak and I plan to use it again when the time is right :) Ideally when I have kids I'll be able to give it to them and tell them the stories behind it
Never turn your back on the Sea.

amsterdamzero
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Re: High Force

Post by amsterdamzero »

Dude, I hope you have gotten a clue since you "attempted" to run this, because anyone with more than a basic knowledge of whitewater can see you didn't have one at the time.

You doing this was not "pushing boundaries" or "testing your limits," it was just pure stupidity, made worse by the fact your ego is so inflated you still don't recognize your deficiencies (prolly due to you climbing background).

You state, "sometimes it doesn't feel like a choice." You don't understand whitewater at all due to that statement. Running whitewater is all about choices and there almost always is a choice to run or not run something. The only time I can think there isn't a choice is if you are in some remote gorged out section of river and the only way out is downstream. However, if you are in such a situation, you likely knew it was a possibility before you even put on, thus you have already made the choice.

One other thing, that's not a "stopper hole" that flipped you, it was a curler/hole, which you leaned the wrong direction into. That's basic stuff any beginner learns fairly quickly. If it was a "stopper hole" you would not have flushed out and to the right as quickly and you would have had to swim while getting tossed in it. Lucky for you it flushed you right into that eddy and not over the falls, where without any assistance/safety you likely would have drowned or been so injured you couldn't have been able to even save yourself. It's pretty evident you don't know how to properly wet-exit either as you struggled to get your feet out of the kayak for quite sometime.

If my words ring hollow to you maybe those of a whitewater legend will have some impact - http://www.dougammons.com/wp-content/up ... fDeath.pdf

Specifically this - "Lesson 7: It is our own decision to be in those places, so it is likewise our responsibility
to have the skills and conditioning to do it as safely as we can. The adventure sports are
challenging precisely because those environments are only partially predictable. The
unpredictability is a major element of what draws us there; so learn your skills well and always
be open to learning more. Rivers have been practicing what they do a lot longer than any of us
have been kayaking. Perhaps the greatest lesson they can teach is that we should never stop
learning."

The river doesn't care who you are, it will be here long after you are gone, which could be sooner than later if you continue to think "it's not a choice."

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force

Post by Lancs_lad »

Is it me or is there a cut at 1:38 just as you capsize?

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DaveBland
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Re: High Force

Post by DaveBland »

Lancs_lad wrote:Is it me or is there a cut at 1:38 just as you capsize?
Who on this forum, would be happy to seal launch in just there and make the breakout? Pretty ballsy move for any paddler – intentional flip or not.

That's why the "fake" claims don't add up to me. The seal-launch is all one continuous piece of filming.
The only bit that doesn't add up in my mind is what happened to the boat... how a waterlogged boat got down the falls without getting majorly reshaped is beyond comprehension.
dave

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force

Post by Lancs_lad »

Ben Johnston found this little Gem which delves more into his mind


mikeyd
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Re: High Force

Post by mikeyd »

In reply to the amsterdam fella, I think the point I've covered, or at least tried to cover, is that i know it was stupid and it reshaped the way I look at things so thanks for all of that but this is now 6 months on, I figured that stuff out. I don't mean that in an arsey way, its just been covered. I'm an idiot and I can't paddle for shit, we know. And my wet exit, influenced by both the extra foam I had wedged in the nose and the fact I'd nearly just gone over high force upside down, made me a little clumsy... Also did you just make an account today for that one comment?

Lancslad, yeah it cuts during the capsize. fiddling about with the speeds repeatedly ended up making a glitch i guess, 5000 people viewed the raw footage which didnt have the glitch and most people seemed to accept it was legit so i'm not even going to get into the whole hoax conversation.

i think this topic is pretty much done now, the angry ones have made their points and the more insightfully-inclined have made theirs.
Not much else to be said really. Hope everyone has a good weekend anyway
Never turn your back on the Sea.

amsterdamzero
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Re: High Force

Post by amsterdamzero »

As a matter of fact, I did create an account just to comment on this, because whether you realize it or not, since you put this video up for public consumption, it will reflect on kayakers as a whole. Maybe someday someone with the skills and experience will try to fire this off at the appropriate water level (if there is one that looks good to them), but if due to your showcasing your immense beatering, some government agency puts off limits boaters attempting this, how are you gonna feel? Not to say that many drops aren't done illegally anyways, it's that bad publicity is just that - bad.

I'm glad to see you are contemplative and reflective of the poor decisions you made that day. However, it seems a bit insincere when you make a video, that to anyone who hasn't read your words here, looks as though you are trying to showcase how ballsy you are. Compound that with the fact you have said numerous times "I probably won't come back on here" and yet you do keep coming back, it appears to me you are one who feeds off the attention, whether good or bad.

I hope you don't quit kayaking because you got the spirit, I just hope you think more in the future.

Cheers

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banzer
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Re: High Force

Post by banzer »

That Liza Beck vid was what it's all about... yee haw!
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callwild
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Re: High Force

Post by callwild »

banzer wrote:That Liza Beck vid was what it's all about... yee haw!
This beck literally starts in my back garden and when it actually has some water in it is a horrible rubble strewn pinball where you would not want to be in a kayak. Come to think of it? in the low water shown in the vid I woudn't want to be in it either. Another version of this descent cropped up somewhere else and wasn't really worth commenting on at the time.
Same people have also seemed to claim a descent of Rydal Beck when really only done a small section.
All very bizarre.
After watching over-hype and the playacting as if its a big serious descent it make me now wonder about the high Force film, as if its a set up. The whole style seems to be trying to take the piss out out of extreme sports videos by making out to be bumblies. some of the capsizes in this film look so staged.
Unless they/he are absolutely off the planet then the whole things a set up !!

ShaneOHara
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Re: High Force - FAKE

Post by ShaneOHara »

I can't hold back any longer, this is an elaborate FAKE! There I said it, I'm sorry, but my bullsh!t detector is going ape.

It just doesn't add up to me, the boat and paddler conveniently rocket into the eddy when the momentum and water flow should take them towards the edge of the fall, the boat was tied to the rock face in a relatively calm eddy, but then ends up undamaged at the bottom of the falls, why so shy when you take off the helmet cam and generally all the other weird behaviour, posting pictures, taking them down, adding videos, removing them, adding more, never providing a truly unedited version.

For anyone finding it hard to understand why someone would go to those lengths in order to fake an attempted decent of High Force, good luck working that out, I have no idea.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force - FAKE

Post by Lancs_lad »

ShaneOHara wrote:I can't hold back any longer, this is an elaborate FAKE! There I said it, I'm sorry, but my bullsh!t detector is going ape.

It just doesn't add up to me, the boat and paddler conveniently rocket into the eddy when the momentum and water flow should take them towards the edge of the fall, the boat was tied to the rock face in a relatively calm eddy, but then ends up undamaged at the bottom of the falls, why so shy when you take off the helmet cam and generally all the other weird behaviour, posting pictures, taking them down, adding videos, removing them, adding more, never providing a truly unedited version.

For anyone finding it hard to understand why someone would go to those lengths in order to fake an attempted decent of High Force, good luck working that out, I have no idea.
Agree. Also the scene at the bottom of the falls looks so staged with his kit all placed neatly over the beach. Something just isn;t right about it all.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force

Post by Lancs_lad »

callwild wrote:
banzer wrote:That Liza Beck vid was what it's all about... yee haw!
This beck literally starts in my back garden and when it actually has some water in it is a horrible rubble strewn pinball where you would not want to be in a kayak. Come to think of it? in the low water shown in the vid I woudn't want to be in it either. Another version of this descent cropped up somewhere else and wasn't really worth commenting on at the time.
Same people have also seemed to claim a descent of Rydal Beck when really only done a small section.
All very bizarre.
After watching over-hype and the playacting as if its a big serious descent it make me now wonder about the high Force film, as if its a set up. The whole style seems to be trying to take the piss out out of extreme sports videos by making out to be bumblies. some of the capsizes in this film look so staged.
Unless they/he are absolutely off the planet then the whole things a set up !!
I thought the beck is meant to be worth the walk in with water around? Ill take it off my list if I am mistaken.

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callwild
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Re: High Force

Post by callwild »

I thought the beck is meant to be worth the walk in with water around? Ill take it off my list if I am mistaken
Maybe worth a walk to make your own mind up Ant.
As I say it starts at the head of valley I live in and I have often walked down it coming off the fells and often thought it might be worth it with water, but would need just the right amount and getting it at the right level would be very lucky, and there would be no actual boating on it
I've done my fair share of bouncing down bouldery Lake District becks so I am not adverse to it but that video really is the epitome of scrape and I can not really believe these guys were thinking they were at the fore front of Lakes exploration. At the time I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and youth, as I'm all for getting out there and exploring and enjoying oneself but the way the video is portaying it is so over the top it can't be serious, can it? Coupled with the High Force vid its just plain weird.

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Poke
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Re: High Force - FAKE

Post by Poke »

ShaneOHara wrote:It just doesn't add up to me, the boat and paddler conveniently rocket into the eddy when the momentum and water flow should take them towards the edge of the fall,

Disagree with this. it's kind of like the lead in to right angle on the Etive, I've seen plenty of people unintentionally break out there before. Look at the clip.. the flow is pushing hard right (one of the reasons he goes over)
ShaneOHara wrote:the boat was tied to the rock face in a relatively calm eddy, but then ends up undamaged at the bottom of the falls,
It's entirely feasible that the sling (which wasn't tied, just looped loosely on the rocks) could come loose and the boat bounce over the drop upright. Again, entirely feasible that it's not damaged at the bottom.
ShaneOHara wrote:why so shy when you take off the helmet cam
Possibly got bigger things on his mind than the camera at that moment in time!?
ShaneOHara wrote:and generally all the other weird behaviour, posting pictures, taking them down, adding videos, removing them, adding more, never providing a truly unedited version.
Agree, this is a bit odd, but with the amount of stick he's taking for this (either from non believers, or from believers saying WTF was he thinking) it's not that surprising. Also, the 2nd video that was put up was pretty much unedited from start to finish - shame that got taken down.

If it is a hoax, it's incredibly well done, and as Dave said earlier, who in their right mind would capsize on the lip of high force just for a laugh. I can't see why this isn't real. If it is faked it is very elaborate. I mean, why would you fake nearly running it, solo? You couldn't make that up! You may aswell fake running the whole thing!!

Like the final edit on Vimeo. Very well put together!

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ShaneOHara
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Re: High Force - FAKE

Post by ShaneOHara »

Dude, you might be right, however... :D
Poke wrote: it's kind of like the lead in to right angle on the Etive, I've seen plenty of people unintentionally break out there before. Look at the clip.. the flow is pushing hard right (one of the reasons he goes over)
The difference is that on right angle generally the momentum carries the boater into the eddy, the momentum here should take the paddler towards the edge, unless they are restrained by a rope to the BA harness or something.
Poke wrote: It's entirely feasible that the sling (which wasn't tied, just looped loosely on the rocks) could come loose and the boat bounce over the drop upright. Again, entirely feasible that it's not damaged at the bottom.
Sure, entirely feasible.
Poke wrote: Possibly got bigger things on his mind than the camera at that moment in time!?
Then why take the helmet off in the first place, why not show us the high fives with your mates and them unclipping the rope from your BA harness?
Poke wrote: Agree, this is a bit odd, but with the amount of stick he's taking for this (either from non believers, or from believers saying WTF was he thinking) it's not that surprising.
Doesn't seem like the type to be bothered by what people say or think, smoke bombs.
Poke wrote: Also, the 2nd video that was put up was pretty much unedited from start to finish - shame that got taken down.
But it wasn't entirely unedited.
Poke wrote: If it is a hoax, it's incredibly well done, and as Dave said earlier, who in their right mind would capsize on the lip of high force just for a laugh. I can't see why this isn't real. If it is faked it is very elaborate. I mean, why would you fake nearly running it, solo? You couldn't make that up! You may aswell fake running the whole thing!!
Not my forte, let me know if you find out.

For what it's worth, he could've had a rope attached to his BA harness, this might explain how he's able to swim so effectively to the rocks while still in his boat, but I'm finding it hard to explain direction of pull...

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force - FAKE

Post by Lancs_lad »

Agree, this is a bit odd, but with the amount of stick he's taking for this (either from non believers, or from believers saying WTF was he thinking) it's not that surprising. Also, the 2nd video that was put up was pretty much unedited from start to finish - shame that got taken down.
I downloaded it as predicted he would take it down. Could put it back up? Once on the internet always on! ;-)

sirswimalot
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Re: High Force

Post by sirswimalot »

Could the people who believe this to be fake please answer the following questions:

Did the Apollo 11 mission land humans on the moon?
Did the US government plan 9/11?
Was Princess Diana murdered by the British government or the Royal Family?
Is the world run by lizards?

icklepaddler
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Re: High Force

Post by icklepaddler »

Yes
No
No
Possibly

It's screaming fake, but for the life of me I don't know why anyone would bother. Whats to be gained?

Time to let this post die.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: High Force

Post by Adrian Cooper »

No
No
Yes
No

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: High Force

Post by Adrian Cooper »

There was a post on another forum suggesting a picture had been photoshopped. There were all sorts of things you could do to check this and some were quite convincing as regards the relative scales. I was never really convinced either way but there were a couple of checks which suggested to me it was fake but in the end it turned out to be genuine.

Just one minor point on observations earlier; if you stop close to the edge of a weir, the current is quite slight. In the video, it looks like this is the case immediately above the first major fall.

jsimons
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Re: High Force

Post by jsimons »

mikeyd wrote:Here is the new film as promised . I've switched to Vimeo as youtube is a bit annoying so at the moment this is the only video out there, the raw footage isn't back up yet. It went through a few incarnations but in the end I got tired of talking about my feelings so I just went with what felt right in terms of how to tell the story. I hope you'll find it of some worth, for me it means I can move on from the whole thing now. I'm not much of a techno wizard so I apologise for any production issues with the film, also the original was in full HD but my computer threw a fit when I tried to upload it. Anyway, there it is, watch it quick before I get in trouble for the soundtrack copyrights...
Hello Mikeyd,
I enjoyed the film, bit different from the usual. I have to agree with those that have said it's bonkers but all I can say is fair cop. You've taken some stick on here, taken it better than I might've, but in my mind what are a few narkey comments when you survived that ordeal! some people always find the negatives in any event kiddo, even if you'd succeeded it'd be the same - but what a story to tell the kids. Better to be the chap out there in the world than the one dragging folk down on the internet. Whatever anyone else thinks, I'd shake your hand. Maybe not kayak with you, but shake your hand!

Now reading through the claims that this was a hoax is a bit interesting - If he had a rope on his PFD and started from the river left bank, where we see no rope going across the river, then we must assume the line was on the river left bank. Yet that rope apparently pulls him in to the eddy on river right? I don't think so. Also if you think he washed in to that eddy all too easily then watch the film and the basic footage again and look at the rocks he first grabs on to - they're on the bloody lip, he's about 3 inches from going over and if he hadn't grabbed on he'd have been off. And what about when he jumps across the flow to climb out? I can't see any glimpse of a rope in any of the footage, and I'm quite sure I would given some of the camera angles.
From what he says about his boat, it did suffer from the drop so people should maybe read things through a little better.
It's all well and good telling everyone this chap is a fake but you best be able to back it up, and the fact is you can't. He's done something a bit foolish, but something that took a lot of heart, and he's owned up to it and talked about it despite the stick he's gotten. Like I said, fair cop.

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banzer
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Re: High Force

Post by banzer »

It was at a very low flow. I don't think there was much of a significant flow pulling over the drop at any point. Might even be an element of that natural swimming pool at the top of Vic Falls going on, not that I want to try. So no, not fake IMO. As others have said why fake a failed attempt - you might as well fake a successful attempt!
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Randy Fandango
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Re: High Force

Post by Randy Fandango »

banzer wrote:It was at a very low flow. I don't think there was much of a significant flow pulling over the drop at any point. Might even be an element of that natural swimming pool at the top of Vic Falls going on, not that I want to try. So no, not fake IMO.
I basically agree with this although....
banzer wrote: As others have said why fake a failed attempt - you might as well fake a successful attempt!
.....I would answer with this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst
Giles

cp
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Re: High Force

Post by cp »

Why fake a failed attempt ? because its much easier to do and make it look like you intended to, but still says you had the bottle to try. I think there was no intention to ever make it to the lip and go over. He said he goes free climbing so what he did was not even hard for him but easy and relatively safe to set up.

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Lancs_lad
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Re: High Force

Post by Lancs_lad »

jsimons wrote:
mikeyd wrote:Here is the new film as promised . I've switched to Vimeo as youtube is a bit annoying so at the moment this is the only video out there, the raw footage isn't back up yet. It went through a few incarnations but in the end I got tired of talking about my feelings so I just went with what felt right in terms of how to tell the story. I hope you'll find it of some worth, for me it means I can move on from the whole thing now. I'm not much of a techno wizard so I apologise for any production issues with the film, also the original was in full HD but my computer threw a fit when I tried to upload it. Anyway, there it is, watch it quick before I get in trouble for the soundtrack copyrights...
Hello Mikeyd,
I enjoyed the film, bit different from the usual. I have to agree with those that have said it's bonkers but all I can say is fair cop. You've taken some stick on here, taken it better than I might've, but in my mind what are a few narkey comments when you survived that ordeal! some people always find the negatives in any event kiddo, even if you'd succeeded it'd be the same - but what a story to tell the kids. Better to be the chap out there in the world than the one dragging folk down on the internet. Whatever anyone else thinks, I'd shake your hand. Maybe not kayak with you, but shake your hand!

Now reading through the claims that this was a hoax is a bit interesting - If he had a rope on his PFD and started from the river left bank, where we see no rope going across the river, then we must assume the line was on the river left bank. Yet that rope apparently pulls him in to the eddy on river right? I don't think so. Also if you think he washed in to that eddy all too easily then watch the film and the basic footage again and look at the rocks he first grabs on to - they're on the bloody lip, he's about 3 inches from going over and if he hadn't grabbed on he'd have been off. And what about when he jumps across the flow to climb out? I can't see any glimpse of a rope in any of the footage, and I'm quite sure I would given some of the camera angles.
From what he says about his boat, it did suffer from the drop so people should maybe read things through a little better.
It's all well and good telling everyone this chap is a fake but you best be able to back it up, and the fact is you can't. He's done something a bit foolish, but something that took a lot of heart, and he's owned up to it and talked about it despite the stick he's gotten. Like I said, fair cop.
Strong first post! ;-)

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RichA
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Re: High Force

Post by RichA »

cp wrote:He said he goes free climbing so what he did was not even hard for him but easy and relatively safe to set up.
What do you mean by this? Your poor use of climbing terminology suggests you don't really know what you're talking about.

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Re: High Force

Post by Adrian Cooper »

It made sense to me. I don't do climbing so I don't use 'climbing terminology', maybe cp doesn't either. Do 'hard' and 'easy' have definite meanings in climbing circles?

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