Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

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Ieuan Belshaw
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:06 pm
Location: North & South Wales

Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by Ieuan Belshaw »

I'm trying to help a few friends to cartwheel and bow stall - I can do it myself but I can't seem to explain to others how to do it?

My current theory is...

Stick to one edge around 30-45 deg.
Get the bow up high (staying on edge).
Push the bow deep whilst throwing your body forward (and staying on edge).
Once they start landing on their head, explain to move their arms out to make a triangle between arms/boat/paddles and look over their shoulder (and to put less edge on).

Some people end up in a stern squirt?? How can they get out of this habit?

Do any playboating geniuses have any advice?
Ieuan :)

BurrsRunner
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by BurrsRunner »

Point 3...push the bow deep while throwing your bodyweight forward.

This is where I am stuck, how exactly does one 'push the bow deep'? I've watched just about every video on Youtube explaining how to double-pump/cartwheel/bow-stall and none of them have helped me. I get the boat to 45°before it flops back down the way it went up and I'm getting frustrated with it. I usually learn well this way, by watching videos of others doing it, sometimes explaining it, followed by me analysing it in slow-motion, then off to the river to try it. It's how I learned very quickly to do several different types of roll and stern squirts - which I can do with one single stroke from standstill on flat water, yet the bow initiation is just not happening.

Matt Blakemore
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by Matt Blakemore »

The way I learnt to bow stall, after managing to double pump was using the bank to balance on (careful and probably best to wear a helmet) but I found once I could balance using the bank I found it much easier to start doing it properly.
BurrsRunner wrote: This is where I am stuck, how exactly does one 'push the bow deep'?
Possibly try with a playboat which you are over the weight limit with or a boat with slicey ends as it will be easier.

ajm
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by ajm »

Matt Blakemore wrote:The way I learnt to bow stall, after managing to double pump was using the bank to balance on (careful and probably best to wear a helmet) but I found once I could balance using the bank I found it much easier to start doing it properly.
That's a great idea. I suppose you could use someone's boat in a pool or on flat water too.

I've struggled to get the double pump working too. Everyone I've spoken to has said practice, practice, practice...

The Chuckster
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:18 pm

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by The Chuckster »

A few points
For Cartwheels; for getting the bow in the water, it's all about body wind up, swinging the legs and feet as high in the air as possible, then snapping them down into the water so in effect you are standing up. I see a lot of people when they initiate get the bow high by leaning back and sinking the stern but then it is much harder to to get your weight forwards to get the bow in the water
Think of levers and hinges, keeping bodyweight over the centre of the boat. Also note that I mention about getting the bow high, and not sinking the stern, this I find is really good physological thing to help with wind up etc.

When you get bow to stern sorted, the third end can be harder to get, so practice ends 2-3, ie initiate off the stern, and then make end two the bow!

For Bow stalls: Get the paddle out in front as far as possible, so if initiating on the right, when you go into position,get the left blade reached out as far as possible;

I haop this helps, I am better at explaining and understanding too by watching and talking, the writing/reading don't really work for me!

Chucky

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Ieuan Belshaw
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Location: North & South Wales

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by Ieuan Belshaw »

Cheers for all the pointers!

Chucky, I like what you say about keeping your weight forward even when bringing the bow up, and with winding your body up. Will use those :).

Pretty sure I don't stand up or push off with my feet, think that usually makes people flop back down flat onto their hull?
Ieuan :)

Tiny Dancer
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: Cartwheeling / Stalling Coaching

Post by Tiny Dancer »

With learning to cartwheel I had noticed two defined progression steps, Firstly, Double Pump into Bow Stall/Cartwheel, Secondly, the third End..

When Cartwheeling coach the 'Double Pump', 'Cartwheel initiation' (which ever you like to use but for this explanation ‘Double Pump’ it is)

The first pump, easy and simple, forward stoke, lifting the legs out the water allowing the stern to enter the water only slightly whilst being on edge enough to allow boat to release from the water.
I am not explaining the First pump in much detail as it is not really that important, but something to consider is that that first pump is only to allow enough momentum for your boat to rotate round, the more height you can get the more momentum you can generate..
Also, folk can initiate their Second Pump far too early, allow the boat to fall naturally only a fraction before initiating their Second Pump

The Second Pump.
The trick with getting the student to understand their boat to rotating on an unfamiliar axis is to get them to identify where this axis is.. No it’s not at the Body, it’s a few inch in front of your torso along your deck (Note; Varies among boats although generally yes), I urge you to sit up into a Bow Stall and have a quick peek at where the water line is..
Realising where the water line was on your boat whilst in your Bow Stall you will notice there is far more boat out the water than in.
Following this you should then realise that you are not solely driving the font end into the water, moreover, you are lifting your stern into the air AND most of your body..
How does one drive an end of a boat into the water without the other end lifting up out of the water. You don’t, don’t in this case let encourage that and further exaggerate it.
Let’s take the cartwheel away from your boat and onto your body, rather than allowing yourself to instruct the paddler to drive their paddle into the water and lean forward (to plow to Bow into the water), try getting them to push their arse in the air forcing against their paddle supporting on the surface of the water.. This will allow their stern to rise out the water but as you are moving the axis further above the water your bow should also drive under the water.

You mention the triangle, when you lift your stern into the air you use you paddle as support for this, your paddle will naturally fall into the required triangle position upon pushing from the water surface to lift your stern out the water..


Ieuan, Cartwheel yourself to identify whether you can feel this also, it helps to associate..

Without wanting to over analyse things, Picture yourself cartwheeling (carry out the movements) and every action you carry out can follow the rule below.
Newtons Third Law is a good one, ‘For every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction.’
Or if you like,
‘When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.’

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