BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

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bastien
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BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by bastien » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:31 pm

I just wanted to know the difference between both.

What can you do "work-wise" with the new level 3 that you can't do with level 2 and MWE ?

Does level 3 provide you opportunities for better job position ?

LSmith4285
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by LSmith4285 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:46 pm

This isn't as straight forward as a which is better, it depends what you are looking to do.

Both qualifications allow you to coach on the same remit of water but the UKCC Level 3 is a higher qualification as it shows you can work with groups on annual development plans. There is a lot of the coaching material in the UKCC Level 3 came out of the old BCU Level 5 which gives you more coaching tools. UKCC Level 3 coaches should be coaching at a higher level.

I'd say to go for the UKCC Level 2 with MWE as the MWE counts for two of your modules if you decide to go onto UKCC Level 3 so it's ideal.

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morsey
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by morsey » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:18 pm

Why does UKRGB do BCU's work all the time answering these questions which should be down to BCU to make clear on their website? #pissupinabrewery

Betty
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by Betty » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:27 pm

I have done the L3 training, but I am seriously thinking about skipping the assessment... due to the extra cost/faff factor. The L3 does not increase your remit and has no real commercial application. It is very specialised and I can see the value of it in places like competitive clubs. L3 is for people who want to develop paddlers in the medium term, so it is great for people who run clubs. I really don't think it makes you a better moderate water coach, just someone who can develop paddlers over a medium term. Most commercial coaching is 'quick fix' training, or short term. I can see why people are doing MWE, then progressing to the AWE/5 Star route which focuses on this.

When L3 is compared to AWE/5 Star, I don't think L3 is higher, it is sort of a tangent branching off from L2. AWE/5 Star is higher level stuff cos of the increased remit. That is what it seems like to me anyway!

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adrian j pullin
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by adrian j pullin » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:42 am

morsey wrote:Why does UKRGB do BCU's work all the time answering these questions which should be down to BCU to make clear on their website? #pissupinabrewery
Because we are nice people who love to help paddlers develop in what ever way suits their interests and we do not have hidden agendas to do with government funding etc.

(Must hit "submit" before I type "...unlike...".)
Cheers

Adrian J Pullin
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icklepaddler
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by icklepaddler » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:32 am

morsey wrote:Why does UKRGB do BCU's work all the time answering these questions which should be down to BCU to make clear on their website? #pissupinabrewery
Because they dont respond! A month ago they said they would respond to my question as to why they had failed to publish the background debate to the 2 star review as they had stated they were going to.

Still waiting.

bastien
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by bastien » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:45 am

Thanks for your answer

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morsey
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by morsey » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:59 pm

icklepaddler wrote:Because they dont respond!
And, people still buy membership?

I understand why people ask and I understand why people answer (UKRGB is a wealth of knowledge), but I don't understand why people keep on putting up with this level of incompetence! Shocking.

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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by SDG » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:43 pm

UKCC L3 is looked on more favourably if you want to become a coach tutor / assessor.

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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by mountain_bikerider » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:09 pm

From a very limited knowledge it appears a lot of activity centres expect Level 3 so you can be classed as "senior instructor" or technical advisor. As I understand it this comes from people like AALA and is part of insurance issues. However they still let Old BCU level 3's act as senior instructor or technical advisor which is strange / annoying as the new Level 2 with MWE is actually a more in depth qualification.

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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:55 pm

It sounds as if these centres have not caught up with the latest BCU scheme. I am guessing new level 3 coaches are very few and far between.

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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by jmmoxon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:25 pm

Technical advisors are recommended by AALA to be at least one level above that required to actually run the activity, so for flat water sessions old level 3 is fine (& there are hardly any new level 3s apart from competition coaches).

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Betty
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by Betty » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:19 pm

They are more interested in AWE and 5 Star. You don't need 5 Star to be a UKCCL3 coach. You need 5 Star to do AWE.

chrisjacks
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by chrisjacks » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Because Level 3 and 5 star are two very different awards, MWE has the same environmental remit as Level 3, not AWE. But a Level 3 with 5* can go on to do AWE.

Betty
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by Betty » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:30 am

chrisjacks wrote:Because Level 3 and 5 star are two very different awards, MWE has the same environmental remit as Level 3, not AWE. But a Level 3 with 5* can go on to do AWE.
That is the point, the UKCCL3 part doesn't add anything at all. A MWE L2 could hold 5 Star and do AWE. I think I should have just done the AWE stuff instead though because I am just in to WW, not competition. I think the MWE/AWE reflects the reality of most of the coaching I do, which is not medium term. If it is progressive, as opposed to a 'one off' it is progressive over a few days.

bastien
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by bastien » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:22 am

Betty, did the training made you a better coach ?

Betty
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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by Betty » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:22 am

bastien wrote:Betty, did the training made you a better coach ?
No. I don't think it makes you better, ie it doesn't increase the quality of what you do, or the understanding of what you do, rather it teaches you to do something different (trains you to be a medium term development coach) not better, not worse, just different. Different and largely irrelevant to what most MWE coaches do... unless you are in a club that develops paddlers in the medium term.

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Re: BCU ukcc level 3 vs ukcc level 2 with MWE

Post by George Fell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:17 pm

Moutainbikerider - I think AALS is fairly clear (and sensible) about this. They say;
8. Technical advisors within the context of Licensing will primarily be involved in the safety of a session, rather than the quality
of the coaching, so a high level of Star Award is more significant than a high level of Coach Award.

9. Requirements -
new 5* Star in the appropriate discipline where it exists, plus;
new Level 2 Award.
which you can find at http://www.hse.gov.uk/aala/guidance/515 ... sports.htm

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