Mile End Mill?

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Goopsdad
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Mile End Mill?

Post by Goopsdad » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Can one of you kind souls tell me the state of the Dee at Mile End Mill please?
I might just be in the area this coming Thurs/Fri and wouldn't mind a quick paddle.

Thanks.

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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Terryg » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:54 pm


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Patrick Clissold
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Patrick Clissold » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:35 pm

Plenty of people seem to be still using it as I was driving past several times last week.

Mark Dixon
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Mark Dixon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:34 pm

I dont know anything about the situation with the roof collapse but as a roofer I know a lot about asbestos roofs. The corragated sheets contain aout 5% asbestos cement and are only dangerous if the sheets are broken and fibres are released into the air, Once the fibres are wet they are no longer a serious risk (hence why we dampen roofs down before stripping) I dare say by know the dust has settled so to speak and situation under control. I certainly wouldnt have any problem passing by on the river were I paddling in Wales.
Asbestos is a natural mineral and is in the air all the time in small quantities.
You need to make your own risk assessment on wether you paddle past, if your unsure just look it up on Google all the info is available.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Adrian Cooper » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Mark Dixon wrote: Asbestos is a natural mineral and is in the air all the time in small quantities.
I agreed with Mark's general advice but I am often wary of seductive comments about 'natural' products; arsenic is natural, not recommended in any quantity and there are quite a few 'minerals' which might be best avoided, uranium and plutonium have been discussed on here recently.

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Big Henry
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Big Henry » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:38 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Mark Dixon wrote: Asbestos is a natural mineral and is in the air all the time in small quantities.
I agreed with Mark's general advice but I am often wary of seductive comments about 'natural' products; arsenic is natural, not recommended in any quantity and there are quite a few 'minerals' which might be best avoided, uranium and plutonium have been discussed on here recently.
I think of exactly this whenever I see this ad on TV

(BTW How do you use the YouTube link to embed a video from YouTube?)

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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by R3V » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:00 pm

'I agree with the above but would point out that the advice and statements form the owners of MileEnd mill buildings and carparking area is entirley sensible and approriate in this litigious age. They did not know at the time what the situation was with release of fibres and without further details I find it difficult to imageine how a corrugated roof could collapse without breaking sufficiently to relase fibres.
By publicising the issue and 'closing' the carpark if anyone decides to use them it is at their own risk. As is repeated onmany occaisions on these fora riparian rights (which i assume are held by the owners) dont extend to prevent paddling only to the river bed and fishing rights etc not the water.
Clearly the risk if any to an individual paddling past is minimal/non-existent unless they happen to be passsing if a further significant events occurs causing large quantities of fibres to be released.

Mark Dixon
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Mark Dixon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:24 pm

Am I right hat the roof collapsed with the weight of snow? In this case he asbestos was contained pretty much instantly and no doubt covered until it melted?

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:15 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Mark Dixon wrote: Asbestos is a natural mineral and is in the air all the time in small quantities.
I agreed with Mark's general advice but I am often wary of seductive comments about 'natural' products; arsenic is natural, not recommended in any quantity and there are quite a few 'minerals' which might be best avoided, uranium and plutonium have been discussed on here recently.
Sorry to a total pendant. Arsenic is an element which the human metabolism needs in very small (but essential) quantities - I understand that beer is a very good source.

Uranium is the heaviest natural element, but plutonium is a synthetic product of nuclear fission. Again I understand that natural plutonium existed eons ago, but has by now decayed. Plutonium is rightly described to be deadly - the smallest particle ingested or inhaled into the lungs will almost certainly result in cancer. On the other hand I have a sample of uranium ore in my living room, that I use to check my Geiger counters.

As you were, chaps :-)

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Adrian Cooper » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:46 pm

Sorry Pete, I fell into the trap of using colloquial English when I said 'any quantity' to mean any significant quantity.

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:59 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:Sorry Pete, I fell into the trap of using colloquial English when I said 'any quantity' to mean any significant quantity.
Don't worry, look at my fractured English and primary school level grammar. Unfortunately a year after a stroke what you've been left with is basically what you keep. I sometimes "sound" abrupt or aggressive but it's very difficult for me to write anything that makes some sense.

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Mark Gawler
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Mark Gawler » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:07 am

Wildswimmer Pete wrote:.... but plutonium is a synthetic product of nuclear fission.
There are natrally ocuring isotopes of Plutonium, see the Occurrence section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium
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Goopsdad
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Goopsdad » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:27 pm

Back on topic.....

I can't get up there this week after all!

Carry on talking chemistry.....

mcneilljamie
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by mcneilljamie » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:01 am

Last year I smashed a load of cement bonded asbestos sheets into small bits so that they could be double bagged and dumped at the HWRC. The asbestos fibres are largely contained within the cement bond, so therefore really, the risk is minimal UNLESS the frequency of exposure is often.

The really dangerous stuff is the pipe lagging/insulation. Similar in appearance (I am led to believe) as loft insulation but different in colour, if this stuff is disturbed and inhaled can cause serious harm.

Unfortunately, after the ban on sales of asbestos containing products a company popped up selling Asbesta-Like. Identical in appearance, only laboratory testing can confirm whether the product with which you are dealing does actually contain asbestos.

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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by -Ginge- » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:10 pm

Only a brave man cites wikipedia...

Mark Dixon
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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Mark Dixon » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:47 pm

mcneilljamie wrote:Last year I smashed a load of cement bonded asbestos sheets into small bits so that they could be double bagged and dumped at the HWRC. The asbestos fibres are largely contained within the cement bond, so therefore really, the risk is minimal UNLESS the frequency of exposure is often.

The really dangerous stuff is the pipe lagging/insulation. Similar in appearance (I am led to believe) as loft insulation but different in colour, if this stuff is disturbed and inhaled can cause serious harm.

Unfortunately, after the ban on sales of asbestos containing products a company popped up selling Asbesta-Like. Identical in appearance, only laboratory testing can confirm whether the product with which you are dealing does actually contain asbestos.
Glad of that cos I've probably nailed possibly 100's of 1,000's of them on the roofs over about 15 years before they banned them, though When we strip old asbestos slates down its not advisable to break them down and we carry them down whole or bagged up whole.

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Re: Mile End Mill?

Post by Mike79 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:24 pm

There are different kinds of asbestos. The most harmful kinds are known as Blue and Brown asbestos, these are very dangerous and caused thousands of agonising deaths but they were generally only used in industrial applications. The third type is known as White asbestos, whilst it's still called asbestos it is chemically very different to the others and is very much less harmful. Some people think White asbestos isn't harmful at all in practice because (unlike the other kinds) it breaks up in water so it doesn't persist in the lungs, but it was banned on the precautionary principal. Asbestos roofs and asbestos reinforced cement boards were made using white asbestos and the risk from them is small even if they're broken up. Whilst asbestos is dangerous there's no need to get into a lather over exposure to small quantities, especially if it's white asbestos and especially if you don't smoke. The real risks came from substantial exposure to Blue or Brown Asbestos, almost always at work and usually combined with smoking.

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