Keeping warm in summer

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gp.girl
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Keeping warm in summer

Post by gp.girl » Fri May 19, 2017 8:24 pm

I tend to swim* on ww and get cold unless it's very warm. So whats the best things for keeping snug? I've got a semidry cag which works fine up until the first swim. Probably need something to go underneath thats better than thermals. Thinking shorty wetsuit, any other suggestions?

* I'm working on it :)
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Simon
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Simon » Fri May 19, 2017 8:45 pm

Rather than a shorty wet suit, try s set of thin (summer weight) neoprene long Johns, i.e covers your legs and core body, but keeps the arms free.

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TheEcho
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by TheEcho » Fri May 19, 2017 11:03 pm

Agreed, long john wetsuits are fab. I have a Palm one which is great (and women specific - I got it after going on courses which provided 'unisex' wetsuits which were, of course, men's, and simultaneously squished the chest while providing gaping flapping areas at the shoulders which let the water in and made me cold). Decathlon do some cheap ones which I haven't tried, but the rest of their kit is pretty good so worth a look.

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DaveBland
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by DaveBland » Sat May 20, 2017 12:19 am

Agree long johns are cool.
But... you havd been ag this for a while anc despite a few challenges have stuck at it (well done) so you probably deserve a dry suit.
Nothing beats a good one.

If I missread it and you have one but are looking at a summer option, then yeah maybe a drytop rather than seni dry, neoprene shorts and a good thermal.
dave

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Chalky723
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Chalky723 » Sun May 21, 2017 10:29 pm

A decent dry cag & shorts are what I use in the summer, but if I'm on "proper" water where swims are likely I'll put the drysuit on....

D
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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Adrian Cooper » Wed May 24, 2017 12:24 pm

For summer wear if you get wet I think you should use quick drying base layers, which I am sure you have and then something on top to keep the wind off. How about a very simple shorty cag like the Palm Cirrus. Indeed, you could use this with a shorty wetsuit although I tend to be averse to wetsuits for kayaking because they really aren't designed for use out of water. (latent heat of evaporation and all that)

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DaveBland
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by DaveBland » Thu May 25, 2017 4:45 pm

When I was back on home soil and fancied a bit of a paddle last summer I grabbed a Palm NeoFlex top rather than buying a dry top.
I used it on a nice-ish day at HPP and it deffo did the trick.

I used it again on Monday, here in Canada on a nice sunny day, but with ice cold water. I have a thin dry top that's long in the tooth and not that dry anymore that I wore over it.

The point is, it did really well. I was a touch cold after a long day of hauling folks boats out the river, but to be fair, it was more my legs and feet.

So maybe look at one of them? I'm impressed with it and when things warm up a bit more, I'll be using it without anything over it. The long arms were nice and didn't feel awkward.

Girls version is this one:
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dave

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Chalky723
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Chalky723 » Thu May 25, 2017 11:45 pm

I'd probably say "don't overthink it" - at a basic level, you own a drysuit & believe you're going to swim a couple of times. Larry Logic would suggest that keeping your drysuit on would be the best option. Even if you get sweaty, the swims will cool you down.....

I wear the most unbreathable & sweaty drysuit in the world (according to some), but the comfort when swimming has always outweighed any slight discomfort when paddling....

D
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Jim
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Jim » Fri May 26, 2017 1:37 am

In some boats I've been paddling in shorts right through the last couple of winters, my shorty cag got its first outing of this year back in March (OK, there was also hail at some point that day, I think I was wearing my drysuit at that point), and I haven't even used a cag at all in over a week now - that covers 2 Polo training sessions, a Polo tournament, WWR training and Slalom training. I think the WWR session was the only one where I didn't go upside down.

I would suggest you think about what you are going to be doing, where and for how long. Shallow water should be fairly warm now, deep water is still cold. Is it a park and paddle session or a river trip? For park and paddle do you just need to leave a spare set of warmer clothes in your car/changing room and take time out to go and put them on if you need to? For a river trip can you carry extra clothing with you?

I find cags and drysuits restrictive, and wherever possible I will paddle without either which will allow me to be a little sharper in everything I do. I have also noted a couple of times when paddling in a warm wind that friends wearing long sleeve cags have got their arms wet and they stay relatively wet and cold, where my bare arms have dried off almost instantly and kept warm.

I would seriously suggest you experiment with different layers - short and long sleeve thermals and cags and see what works for you when. Often a long sleeve thermal with the sleeves rolled up can be a good option - if you start feeling cold roll the sleeves down.

SimonMW
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by SimonMW » Sat May 27, 2017 1:54 pm

A few options. Thin Neo tops (long sleeve and short), or just a thermal. Only thing with those is that there's no proper interface with the spray deck, so water gets into the boat much more easily. At the moment I'm using a shorty Peak cagdeck pretty much constantly. It actually feels less restricted in movement than a neo top because the area around the waist isn't so tight. Though if the weather gets really hot I'll just wear a rashy.

The water is really starting to warm up now. Helped by the lack of rain recently. I've just been flatwater practicing on the Severn, and the water temp feels much warmer than it was this time last year.

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DaveBland
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by DaveBland » Mon May 29, 2017 5:54 pm

The benefit of the modern thin neo tops is that they are fleecy lined and keep you warm when dry too.
With one worn under a semi-dry top [as OP] then the water in boat issue is less and they work wet or dry.
dave

gp.girl
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by gp.girl » Mon May 29, 2017 8:38 pm

I have got a drysuit but it gets to a point I'd rather not wear it out and the boil in the bag effect is not fun! Like the look of the lined top. Today I started with 3 layers and finished with one, it was a flat water canoe trip so at least its easy to get rid of layers. Back on mostly flat water now but got to get back on the moving stuff :)
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Chalky723
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Chalky723 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:55 pm

"Dress for the swim" is one way to look at it. If you're good at rolling & are unlikely to swim, then Shorts & Cag (plus baselayer) is the way to go.

Or if you're likely to swim, but it's at Lee Valley/HPP & the consequences of you getting cold, tired & miserable are minimal - fill your boots.

But if you're likely to swim & it's going to affect your performance, morale & the morale of your fellow paddlers, then I'd suggest a drysuit with a single layer underneath - I wear a baselayer top & walking trousers. I've rarely been cold in the UK Summer whilst paddling & being a bit warm/sweaty is a price I'm willing to pay for comfort when swimming...

You can always have a cheeky roll/Eskimo rescue in between features if you get too warm....
gp.girl wrote:Today I started with 3 layers and finished with one, it was a flat water canoe trip so at least its easy to get rid of layers. Back on mostly flat water now but got to get back on the moving stuff :)
I'm surprised that you had 3 layers on today on flat water. It's shorts, rashvest & BA weather - 3 layers is madness!!

D
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Jim
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Jim » Tue May 30, 2017 12:13 am

Chalky723 wrote:I'm surprised that you had 3 layers on today on flat water. It's shorts, rashvest & BA weather - 3 layers is madness!!
As many layers as that? One of those items I don't use for most FW sessions anymore (still use for Polo and WW sessions and Sea). I think BC say you need to be 16 before you can make such a judgement though.

feedbackproblem
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by feedbackproblem » Tue May 30, 2017 12:14 pm

An upgrade to a dry cag will probably keep you pretty dry but I'd also recommend checking out an O'Neill Thermo-X top (or something similar). It's a sort of fleecey stretchy material that fits like a compression top so you'd use it as a rash vest but it's much warmer and is great at wicking moisture away from your skin. Much less constrictive than going for a neoprene top and although it won't keep you as warm in the water it'll probably feel warmer if you're not in the water either pre or post swim.

TheEcho
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by TheEcho » Tue May 30, 2017 7:32 pm

As many layers as that? One of those items I don't use for most FW sessions anymore (still use for Polo and WW sessions and Sea). I think BC say you need to be 16.
This weekend there were hordes of under-16s (mostly under-10s) paddling around and jumping in wearing just 2 items - shorts and BAs!

gp.girl
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by gp.girl » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:43 pm

TheEcho wrote:
As many layers as that? One of those items I don't use for most FW sessions anymore (still use for Polo and WW sessions and Sea). I think BC say you need to be 16.
This weekend there were hordes of under-16s (mostly under-10s) paddling around and jumping in wearing just 2 items - shorts and BAs!
Did have to get rid of 2 layers on Sunday, thankfully easy in a canoe. Tried that on Thursday, I'm fine until I 'fell' in but if it had been anythng other than the end I would have ended up cold and miserable. Fine if I'm canoeing but not going to work in a kayak as I should do something upside down even if it's just a bit of hip flicking. Might try the shorty next time.

Due to being female just a B/A doesn't go down very well!
Roll sort of back.

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Jim
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Jim » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:52 am

Had 2 swims yesterday, one in long sleeves, one in shorty (I did change into a spare set of dry shorty kit after the first swim because I had an hour or so to stand around on the bank). I was not bothered by the cold, but it did wash the midge repellant off :)

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ion
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by ion » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:49 am

One of my favorite pieces of gear for cold water in summer has become a pair of Sweet shorts that have a full length neoprene liner.
They are just past the knee in length. Not cheap I know, but they work great and look a hell of a lot better than old fashioned neoprene "Plum Huggers" (For the lads)
https://sweetprotection.com/sp_no/white ... 40#217=199

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davebrads
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by davebrads » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:43 am

So I can buy a decent pair of neoprene shorts for £30 or I can pay double that for some Neoprene shorts with some cloth attached so that I can wow the ladies when I am hanging around the river bank.

Hmm.... let me see

Fool ... money ....
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

feedbackproblem
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by feedbackproblem » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:46 pm

davebrads wrote:So I can buy a decent pair of neoprene shorts for £30 or I can pay double that for some Neoprene shorts with some cloth attached so that I can wow the ladies when I am hanging around the river bank.

Hmm.... let me see

Fool ... money ....
On holiday a couple of years ago I found a shopping bag with a pair of those expensive Sweet shorts in my car boot. I asked around the group of paddlers I was with who had bought them and left them in my car and it turned out it was me. Concussion, credit cards and kayak shops are a bad combination. They don't even fit me properly but they do look nice.

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ion
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by ion » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:07 pm

davebrads wrote:So I can buy a decent pair of neoprene shorts for £30 or I can pay double that for some Neoprene shorts with some cloth attached so that I can wow the ladies when I am hanging around the river bank.

Hmm.... let me see

Fool ... money ....
OK I'll bite. They are made from Yamamoto neoprene, are longer than normal neoprene shorts so the knees are well protected, use a durable material exterior that protects from wear and tear, have a way better fit and fastening system than a ratty piece of string, have a pocket, and are a bright safety oriented color. I have no problem paying for a well designed piece of kit from a small company in a country where all workers take home a decent wage and benefits. I appreciate not everyone has that option.

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DaveBland
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by DaveBland » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Each to their own but I probably use mine more than my drysuit. Well it's close either way. I think they are 4 years old and are pretty worn, but as they are well made still function great.
Even if I had cheaper pair of "plum huggers" [love it], I'd probably buy another par of cloth shorts to wear over them so I don't scare small children and grannies with my basket of plumbs when I'm wearing them around people. So that adds to the cost if comparing.

But the main benefit is the extra length that covers the knees. "Those few extra inches are always worth the money".
dave

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Chalky723
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Chalky723 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:39 pm

Back on topic, OP says that she swims on WW & gets cold unless it's warm.

As she's paddling in the UK & swims like a fish by her own admission, sticking with a drysuit with some nice wicking baselayers would surely be the best option....

All the neoprene shorts & shorty cags in the world won't keep you warm in the average UK WW river over multiple swims. It's not just about the OP, it's about the people she's paddling with too & keeping their experience enjoyable too...

D
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Jim
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Jim » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Hmm, regular neoprene shorts....

Advantages:
- Inexpensive
- Quick to cange into/out of
- Help grip the seat of my kayak(s)
- Act as seat cushion on composite seats
- Stop above the knees so don't cause problems paddling C1 or OC1
- Most, including the Peak ones I use, are designed to fit well when seated, i.e. the back is longer than the front.

Disadvantages:
- I'm not the ideal shape and when dry they seem to descend a little when walking around
- If I had anything to reveal, they probably would

I have to admit I have often wondered if I need neo shorts at all or just board shorts (would be ideal in C1/OC1) but then I remember the cushioning and grip and stick with them.

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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by SimonMW » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:05 pm

My advice to keeping warm in summer is to jump in. The water is like a bath.

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morsey
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by morsey » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:46 pm

Skins for the win.

gp.girl
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by gp.girl » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:30 pm

SimonMW wrote:My advice to keeping warm in summer is to jump in. The water is like a bath.
I noticed ths but no-one hands me a nice warm towel when I get out! Will see how it goes next time I'm out :) Got a day at LV coming up soon mght see if I can beat my 5 hours record....
Roll sort of back.

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Jim
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Re: Keeping warm in summer

Post by Jim » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:15 pm

morsey wrote:Skins for the win.
Sun's out, guns out.

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