Tawe Hassle.

South of Severn/ Rheidol catchment
tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by tawe boy »

Just mine.

User avatar
christompzn
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:33 pm
Location: NE Scotland- Elgin/forres

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by christompzn »

tawe boy, why are you even on here? I have read your comments you started off as if you wanted to negotiate now all you do is want to annoy people leave paddlers alone as we lave fisherman alone I always paddle to the other side of the river and paddle past fisherman if and when I see them.

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6278
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by morsey »

Lots of rain in Wales today. The Tawe is calling :-)

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6278
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by morsey »

tawe boy wrote:They have been directed by the local police to simply inform them that they are tresspassing and take names, car rega=istration numbers etc.
I do not believe the Police would officially issue such a directive, especially the part about recording vehicle details.

Steve B
Posts: 5699
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:36 pm
Location: Taunton, Somerset
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Steve B »

morsey wrote:
tawe boy wrote:They have been directed by the local police to simply inform them that they are tresspassing and take names, car rega=istration numbers etc.
I do not believe the Police would officially issue such a directive, especially the part about recording vehicle details.
It's possible that the police might advise that they can do no more than that. In no time at all that becomes twisted into "directed by".
Steve Balcombe

User avatar
AlexHolt
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by AlexHolt »

Paddled Glyntawe to Abercraf at the weekend, no hassle

boom
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by boom »

Low levels today.
We were met by the local Constabulary whilst packing our kit at the get out.
He was responding to a complaint of 'a group of canoeists about to illegally access the river'.
He was very pleasant, and we explained that we had actually just got off the river and had accessed and eggressed from public rights of way. He quite happily admitted that he hadn't a clue regarding the access/paddling laws and said that he didn't see what the issue was.
We briefly discussed the letter from Dyfed-Powys Police to Llandysul Paddlers, Caffyn's work and the vandalism of kayakers property in the past.
With that he wished us well and cleared off.

User avatar
Kayak-Bloke
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: (Ever Wet) South Wales

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

Paddled down to Abercaf today.
Prior to setting up shuttle we got warned against parking in layby (next to take out bridge) by friendly guy in car.
We weren't going to park there anyway but appreciated the bloke looking out for our tyres.

Upon completing the run a fat bloke, wearing a camoflage jacket and driving a 4x4 pulled up and started the usual tripe.
"Didn't you see the signs?" Etc, etc.
He went on to make veiled threats about having people shoot at us next time we ran the river.
He went on to say he was going to park up and note our regstration numbers. We told him to crack on.
He parked up in field under the layby and by time we'd done the shuttle 2 more 4x4s had turned up and more tripe was issued.
We sorted out shuttle and left.

Great morning's paddle. Some minor hassle at take out.
Gotta love the Tawe. Looking forward to running it again soon.

Might see if they have any spare Osprey body armour in work for the next run though...

Sam Williams
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Sam Williams »

Had much the same story on wednessday. Two old big guys in 4x4's one clameing to be the fishing club secerity.

much the same responce

Great paddle. Some minor hassle.
Love the Tawe.
Looking forward to running it again soon!!!

User avatar
Kayak-Bloke
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: (Ever Wet) South Wales

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

Should have added: The tree on the bend after the 10ft fall has moved left (towards the gorge wall). There was plenty of room and time at yesterday's levels but in high flows you'd have to be on the ball.

boom
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by boom »

Kayak-Bloke wrote: He went on to make veiled threats about having people shoot at us next time we ran the river.
Did you phone the local rozzers?
Surely they would be very interested in threats of violence with a firearm?

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6278
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by morsey »

If you haven't phoned the Police, do so ASAP.

Think of it like this; if you drove into town to go Christmas shopping and some guys were hanging around the car park, putting out the feelers and then laying on the threats, would you call the Police? Exactly.

MK123
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Dundee

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by MK123 »

morsey wrote:If you haven't phoned the Police, do so ASAP.

Think of it like this; if you drove into town to go Christmas shopping and some guys were hanging around the car park, putting out the feelers and then laying on the threats, would you call the Police? Exactly.
Dont think he ment it as a threat, He said "theres people shooting down there if you want to get shot". Which I took to mean, your "tresspass" may result in you accidentally being shot by people who are shooting near the river. But perhaps Im being nieve!!

ShaneOHara
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by ShaneOHara »

Paddled the Tawe on Boxing Day from Glyntawe to Abercraf and saw this sign on the approach to the first main rapid:

Image

We even had a passing police officer wave at us as we were loading our cars at the get out.

Great day, amazing river, can't wait to get back on!

inthedrink
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Bridgend, Wales

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by inthedrink »

Hello all - I've got insomnia so I've read all the posts. I'm not a great mathematician (or river kayaker) but I've been doing sum sums...I reckon it takes roughly 10 seconds to pass an angler, give or take.

Given that:

Say that angler sees 6 groups of kayakers pass him in a day, (unlikely but bear with me), that means that s/he will have had a minor disturbance for 60 seconds on a days fisherying. Say a days fisherying is 4 hours then the said fishist will have only actually seen a kayaker for 0.04% of the time spent fisherying.

2 questions occur to me: if your out fisherying, how many times are you 'bothered' by kayakers compared to the days when your life is kayak free? (and if you work this into the equation then the percentages become incredibly small) And number 2: Bois bach, is 60 seconds of minor hassle really worth all of this silliness? Let's all just shake hands, say we're sorry for calling each other horrible names and play nicely together.

As for paying to use a river, what would we be actually be paying for - to float? If someone wants to build me a nice little ramp to slide my kayak into and from the water so I don't get stung on some nasty nettles then please feel free and I'm happy to pay you a reasonable sum of money to do so. Last time I went on a river I cut myself on a thorn so a wooden or concrete ramp would be much appreciated.

Finally, I'd like to thank my wife for my calculator for Xmas. She thought it would be useful for working out how many brownie points I needed to go kayaking but I've found a betterer use for it. ;-)

User avatar
bombproofgoblin
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by bombproofgoblin »

Good points.
If we have our way, we effectively maintain status quo, minus the attitude. The status being that everyone gets to have a crack at what they like doing. Whereas if the fishists have their way kayaking is banned?! It seems unfair to suggest that drowning worms is a more valid past time?
I think it all eventually boils down to money though. The fishest being angry that we pay none. However, they're only paying money as it is necessary to maintain what they do, which simply isn't, and never has been the case, with kayaking.

inthedrink
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Bridgend, Wales

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by inthedrink »

More thoughts have occured to me since...if a registration system were to be used, say like a car number plate thing then a mini kayak/canoe DVLA would have to be set up to monitor and run the system. This would roughly cost...erm...loads. Surely the money would be better spent leaving us alone and to pay for maybe more police to laugh at the fishists when they phone them up to report the major crime of floating going on. Or for a special teacher that goes into schools and shows the kids HOW TO SHARE.

Seriously, any registration system would not be economically viable due to how few kayakers in reality actually use the rivers so the only way of paying would be when getting in - which, as I have mentioned before, for a reasonable sum is fine by me providing that suitable facilities were included...and that would include not only a nice rampy thing but also the river to be cleared of all nasty stuff and changing rooms - which would incur further costs etc.

There are 2 distinct arguments here - 1: should we pay to just be on the river and 2: should we pay to get in/out of the river. If a kayaker has to pay for either of these then they would be well within their rights to then demand a certain level of facilities - just as the fishists have with re-stocking etc. If that's the case then the landowners would be hard pushed to make any kind of profit as they would price themselves out of the market.

Basically, if anyone suggests paying for the right to float then they really need to consider the logistical and financial aspects of their argument before pursuing it as all it would lead to would be landowners paying for a whole bunch of Health and Safety stuff and then not making any money so then passing that loss onto the fishists.

...yeah, we should pay to be on the river ;-)

PS - sorry for using the dreaded H&S words. Now there's a bunch of nobbheads that should be shot with their own sh*te.

User avatar
morsey
Posts: 6278
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: West Country :-)
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by morsey »

inthedrink wrote:a wooden or concrete ramp would be much appreciated.
There is no reason to manufacture concrete ramps on natural rivers. Wooden ramps need maintenance, and metal fixings are not ideal for wet environments. The majority of access points are at historical crossing and access points, and require no fabrication of landing stages. If you must, locally sourced boulders, well placed so as to not get washed away and not to appear at odds with the location. By creating a need for landing ramps, the fishing folk are trying to invent financial requirement to back up their argument of required payment for access.

inthedrink
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Bridgend, Wales

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by inthedrink »

Er...think you might have missed the point a bit there Morsey!

Steve B
Posts: 5699
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:36 pm
Location: Taunton, Somerset
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Steve B »

inthedrink wrote:Er...think you might have missed the point a bit there Morsey!
I don't think he's missing the point at all. You're saying you'd be willing to pay if facilities such as concrete ramps are provided. Morsey is saying they are not needed so we'd be paying for something we don't want. Morsey is obviously right.
Steve Balcombe

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by tawe boy »

Take your Kyaks, concrete ramps, locally sourced boulders and anything else you deluded clowns dream up and put them where the sun doesnt shine! Paddlers are illegally canoeing on the tawe and all other Welsh rivers, till you galvanise yourselves into some kind of group and get proper sustainable access agreements in place the hassle will continue!!

AndyBucs
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 8:25 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by AndyBucs »

Why post this on a discussion thread tawe boy what does it do other than try and cause an online argument?

paddletastic2
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Coventry
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by paddletastic2 »

tawe boy wrote:Take your Kyaks, concrete ramps, locally sourced boulders and anything else you deluded clowns dream up and put them where the sun doesnt shine! Paddlers are illegally canoeing on the tawe and all other Welsh rivers, till you galvanise yourselves into some kind of group and get proper sustainable access agreements in place the hassle will continue!!
Thanks for the threat.

And your true colours.

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by wezzzy »

It's been a while Tawe Boy, glad to know you're still here keeping an eye in us.
4 trips on the Tawe so far THIS YEAR with no fish botherers to be seen.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8070
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by MikeB »

tawe boy wrote:Take your Kyaks, concrete ramps, locally sourced boulders and anything else you deluded clowns dream up and put them where the sun doesnt shine! Paddlers are illegally canoeing on the tawe and all other Welsh rivers, till you galvanise yourselves into some kind of group and get proper sustainable access agreements in place the hassle will continue!!
Nice. Always interesting to read posts made late in the evening. Quite often one's true personality is revealed, as indeed certain politicians have demonstrated while Twittering late at night, quite possibly after a few libations too many.

That there is no legal precedent to support your assertion really, really weakens your case. However much you might like to believe your own biased and unfounded opinion.

What is interesting is the confirmation from "tawe boy" that a "threat" does exist. Personally, I'd be wary of putting such things in writing, in the public domain. The perception that one is anonymous may not be as watertight as you think it might be and finding out exactly who someone is is remarkably easy. Certainly well within the powers of the Police were they of a mind to wish to investigate what is clearly a threat being made against paddlers.

Go canny, lad. Mike.

chriscw
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:35 am
Location: Basingstoke
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by chriscw »

Tawe Boy, I do not suppose you would care to spell out what you mean by hassle would you?
Chris Clarke-Williams
Location Basingstoke

Paddling Interests:
Touring, Coaching Beginners (I am an L2K), Surf White water trips, Weir Play (I'm not good enough to put freestyle!)

Allenkayak
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by Allenkayak »

Tawe boy you say kayaking / canoeing is illegal, but you are able to actually substanciate that by quoteing or referncing the law that says that ? I can answer that one for you NO.
The CLA and fisheries have very substancial funds behind them and the CLA is run by clever people and with all that money and resources available they have not been able to find one. They just keep quoteing quasilegal things like riperian owners rights. Which is the other reason anyone is yet to be taken to court, despite all teh threats to do so.
However if you are able to find something then take it straight to the CLA as I'm sure they will pay you a nice tidy sum.

Until then I'll paddle, you fish and kids will play in the rivers.

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by wezzzy »

I heard today that a high up police officer has been in contact with the Tawe Anglers and informed them that they should stop calling the police to deal with this issue as it is a civil issue not a criminal one, they still say to call if people are threatening anyone or if there is any criminal damage.

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by tawe boy »

Just to clarify by Hassle I mean being constantly approached and bothered by people from angling club! I have expressed my views on vandalism earlier in this thread.

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: Tawe Hassle.

Post by wezzzy »

Your "hassle" sounds like harassment to me.

Post Reply