Tawe Hassle.

South of Severn/ Rheidol catchment
Post Reply
cobra
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:52 pm

Tawe Hassle.

Post by cobra » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:12 pm

The local fishermen are hassling paddlers again, after some years of peace and quiet. wish they had something better to do.

boom
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by boom » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:40 pm

We got it today as well. Got on at Craig Y Nos country park where a fat man with a camera told us that we shouldn't be paddling as the WCA hadn't renewed the 'voluntary access agreement'. I briefly explained the WCA's position on unrealistic access agreements.
After returning from the shuttle I walked in on the tail end of a debate between some of my paddling mates and a gut who said that he was the Tawe Angling Association bailiff. I obviously missed the start of the conversation (which is a shame as I do love an access issue debate with fisherfolk) but towards the end he was saying that 'private-no canoeing' signs had been put up and that any future paddling would result in the police being called for trespass. He said that TAA had had a meeting with the local police who had agreed to 'attend' any 'incidents' on the river. He wasn't aggressive at all and even said that as a club we could seek permission to paddle from the TAA (though it may not be granted!) and that he didn't want to call the police or for us to recieve criminal records. When I asked what for he said trespass to which I pointed out that trespass was a civil, not criminal matter. As you can imagine that fact that he was now faced with a paddler who had full intention of paddling the river again and new the law regarding trespass sent him into a bit of dither with lots of 'yeah, but, no, but'. I also mentioned that if the police were called then we should probably discuss the vandalism of paddlers cars that has occured in this particular location in the past. This saw him scurrying along to note the number plates of a couple of cars parked at the bridges in Abercraf.

jmmoxon
Posts: 5724
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:12 pm
Location: Sometimes Sunny Somerset
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Contact:

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by jmmoxon » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:55 pm

The situation used to be really bad with tyres getting let down whilst paddling etc, then the Anglers got a large grant which included a clause for them to provide access so things have been pretty quiet for the last few years if you were paddling within the "season". The Taff has also been a problem river for a long time.

Mike
http://kayakworldguide.forums-free.com Links to websites with info on white water, touring, sea & surf.

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by wezzzy » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:07 pm

I'm still angry about them having a go at my pregnant girlfriend.

I am so tempted to go and park on the bridge at Abercraf with my roof bars on and wait for the abuse.
(My GF would kill me if I did though)

cobra
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by cobra » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:58 pm

I'd heard through the grapevine they're putting new signs up, I've noticed 2, 1 at the top end of abercrave , and 1 at the penwyllt bridge upstream. It'll be interesting to see the positions of anymore, as I assume they can only put sign on their own patches. They claim to control the whole river., but i know that this not the case as there are still patches that are still owned by farms,local authorities and other individuals. We will wait and see what develops.
I don't know what the fuss is about anyway, nearly all the paddling takes place off season during the winter. Also I know of some other times during the summer when the water levels are too high to fish anyway.

I think it's down to financial resentment. They think we are getting something for nothing, whilst they have to pay for a rod licence.
It doesn't matter that millions of tax payers money goes to the Enviroment agency to support their sport.
I think they should take a different approach and negotiate free rod licences, then they would have to find something else to get wound up about, like the kids swimming in the river during the summer.

jmmoxon
Posts: 5724
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:12 pm
Location: Sometimes Sunny Somerset
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Contact:

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by jmmoxon » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:54 pm

They may well control the fishing rights over the best sections of the river even without owning the land.

In the summer fishing is apparently best as the river drops off again - which is exactly the time most paddlers get on it. Off season is actually the salmon breeding season, which for various reasons are getting rarer, so they think they also need to reduce disturbance - not that there is any proof that we do disturb fish.

Mike
http://kayakworldguide.forums-free.com Links to websites with info on white water, touring, sea & surf.

cobra
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:52 pm

river tawe

Post by cobra » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:20 pm

A rumour has been circulating that the angling club were thinking of playing the 'spawning card' i.e. it is a criminal offence to disturb spawning fish.
We have contacted the local Environmental Agency with this concern. They stated catagorically that paddling does not interfere with spawning, also, there are no specific areas on the tawe or it's catchment that requires special treatment during the spawning season. So paddle on if this ploy is attempted.

_Rheanna
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:31 am
Location: Wiltshire

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by _Rheanna » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:22 pm

Paddled the Tawe today, no more signs and no fishermen. One interesting thing was a conversation with a few locals and pub owners who seem to very much support paddlers in the whole access debate and don't seem to have any time for anglers at all anymore.

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:40 pm

As a member of TTA I have been reading many of your comments with great interest. Although a reasonable and fair arguement can be presented for being able to canoe where and when you like this is no longer a reality, the recent ruling by the welsh assembly tipped the balance overwhelmingly in favour of anglers. Canoeists using the Tawe are knowingly tresspassing and breaking the law of the land, although as many of you point out tresspass is a civil matter it is only a matter of time before somebody is prosecuted.As a member of TAA i would just like to put accross my point of view, TAA own the river and its banks from source down to the bridge at Pontardawe. We have paid for this right and spend a substantial amount of money on maintaing access points, the committe of the club also spends a lot of time on river clearance during the close season. I am aware that there was previously an agreement in place with the WCA which allowed canoeing during the close season, in my opinion this was a good workable agreement which allowed us to co-exist. Unlike many anglers i dont believe the rivers should be exclusive to us alone, however i dont think you should be allowed to just turn up anywhere you like and canoe free of charge. "But we dont take anything out of the river", I hear you say. This argeement does not hold much weight anymore as most anglers (I included) return what they catch, This does not permit me to just walk onto the Tywi or Nedd and just fish where i please.
Canoeing during the season is not workable due to the size of the river, however there should be no problem during the close season.
Hopefully the 2 parties can get round a table and sort something out because things cant carry on the way they are, with vandalism and intimidation not being acceptable.
Who knows maybe in time you canoeists could join us when we are cutting back trees and removing obstructions from the river!!!

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by wezzzy » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:39 am

Tawe Boy, please be aware these are MY views and not the views of the paddling community
The argument about who "owns the river" will continue, as far as I am concerned you may have the right to fish but you do not own the river, we get on from public land and get off on public land.

Until last week I have been tolerant towards anglers and turned the other cheek to the insults and threats but seeing one of your members finds it acceptable to verbally abuse a pregnant woman I have changed my stance on the subject. If ANYONE comes to me, my group or our drivers and tries to stop us doing our chosen pass time I will not agree quietly and listen to your arguments, if you think the police are needed then you had better call them.

Hopefully your club will do their best to find out who verbally abused my pregnant girlfriend on the 1st bridge (just upstream of the hatchery) while his wife was sat in the car and do something about it.

User avatar
Gupster
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Poole
Contact:

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by Gupster » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:00 pm

tawe boy wrote: "But we dont take anything out of the river", I hear you say. This argeement does not hold much weight anymore as most anglers (I included) return what they catch,
The catch that you return, would that be the fish that's been put there at great expence through fish stocking? If that is the case then whether you return your catch or not, is a moot point.

All we need is rain, see you on the water.

User avatar
Strad
Posts: 1885
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:27 am
Location: The Beautiful Borders of Scotland
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by Strad » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:24 pm

tawe boy wrote: Although a reasonable and fair arguement can be presented for being able to canoe where and when you like this is no longer a reality, the recent ruling by the welsh assembly tipped the balance overwhelmingly in favour of anglers. Canoeists using the Tawe are knowingly tresspassing and breaking the law of the land,
Tawe Boy, while many of us found the WA's decision disappointing from a canoeists perspective, in that they chose not to clarify the law with with respect to unpowered access to waters, they in fact didn't clarify the legal precedent in either direction. Therefore as far as I can see the law with respect to legality of access is as it was before the WA petition, as you state canoeists now know that we are breaking the law, could you provide the evidence where the legal precedence was set for this belief and why you believe the law has changed. I for one haven't spotted any proofs or reasons yet....


(edited to reword / clarify my original post)
Old School?? I miss my AQII..
Graham Stradling

Allenkayak
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by Allenkayak » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:39 pm

Tawe Boy - hi

In response to your comments, the Welsh Assembly made no ruling, just a series of recommendations, that they point out that they have no legal powers to bring in. Their recommendations certainly did not tip the balance in favour of angling, and certainly did not support the misifomed idea that either the riparian owner or the holder of the fishing rights owners or controls the river. In fact I notice that no pro-angling notices concerning the legal issues ever quote any statute or case law.
Concerning paying for your sport, well you pay teh EA for a Rod licence, however this contribution still leaves a 15 million pound shortfall in teh amount the EA spends on fishery activities, so your not really paying the full cost. The other amount you pay is to a private individual or organisation so taht you can use their fishing rights and cross their land. They can only charge what you guys are prepared to pay.
The work that fishermen do on teh bank is realy to improve your fishing experience, remember we can't access the bank on private land. An removal of obstructions in teh river is the riperian owners responsibility (infact calling it riparians rights is quite funny because there really are more responsibilities that benefits).
However I do agree that it would be good if the relevant bodies could get around a table and come up with a nationally agreed method to enable the sharing of rivers that is satisfactory to all users.
Final note - a question to you Tawe Boy. If, as you believe that being on a river without an access agreement, then how come one of the bigger fishing associations or even the CLA are not keen to try an prosecute a paddler with all their finacial resources ? I believe quite simply because they do know the law (but won't amit it) and that any attempt to get a prosecution would fail. They are happy with the idea of a legal threat rather than the reality.

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:33 pm

I was interested to read many of your comments and some fair and good points were made. However it is simply a fact that if you all want to paddle in peace on the Tawe the WCA will need to re- negotiate an agreement simular to the one which was in place a couple of years back, where you were paying a moderate price (far less than anglers), until that is done unfortunatly we are going to continue to hear of confrontations of various kinds taking place. I for one feel that the sooner an agreement is reached the better it will be for all concerned.
Before anyone responds to this post in relation to the post about stocking the river, admitedly the tawe is stocked with fish, however many angling associations own unstocked wild stretches of river and still anglers are prepared to pay an average of £10 a day to fish them.
I would also like to clarify that canoeists both enter and leave the river tawe at abercrave by both bridges at private access points.
Before I go I would like to present you all with a scenario which is in no way meant as a threat, more for the purpose of debate. If a group of canoeists were entering the river at Abercrave and an official of TAA released a dog on the group and a canoeist was badly bitten how would this be viewed in the eyes of the law?? I dont know the answer but am eagerly anticipating your responses.

Ps. Wezzy, look forwad to seeing you and your "group" on the river and engaging in some good old fasioned debate.

User avatar
DaveBland
Posts: 3657
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Calgary Canada
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by DaveBland » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:59 pm

tawe boy wrote:...the committe of the club also spends a lot of time on river clearance during the close season...
Who knows maybe in time you canoeists could join us when we are cutting back trees and removing obstructions from the river!!!
As a matter of interest, if some well meaning canoeists accessed/exited the river by public land to clear the river during close season, would that be seen as a good thing or unwelcome trespass?
dave

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by wezzzy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:08 am

tawe boy wrote: Ps. Wezzy, look forwad to seeing you and your "group" on the river and engaging in some good old fasioned debate.
I think you must have missed the part where I said "If ANYONE comes to me, my group or our drivers and tries to stop us doing our chosen pass time I will not agree quietly and listen to your arguments"

I will ask them to leave as I will be doing nothing wrong, if they believe I am then they should contact the police and get them to come and sort it out.

I will not stand by and be verbally abused, threatened or harrassed and if I need to I will contact the police.

Don't misunderstand this, I will do everything legal to continue to doing my chosen sport and will not be a victim of bullyboy tactics.
I have no problem at all talking to the police about my sport and the civil act of trespass, I have no problem in identifying threatening and illegal behaviour towards others and I do know when threatening behaviour warrents the use of proportianal force to defend myself and others.
This is not a threat, it is a statement of fact.

If you think I have made a threat or comment which you find offensive then please contact the police, get them to contact me on here and get them to ask me to go to the local police station and I will contact them from there.

dj42
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by dj42 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:36 am

I think all this debating is useful but at the end of it all im still going to paddle the river whether it pisses people off or not.

chriscw
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:35 am
Location: Basingstoke
Contact:

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by chriscw » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:04 am

tawe boy wrote: If a group of canoeists were entering the river at Abercrave and an official of TAA released a dog on the group and a canoeist was badly bitten how would this be viewed in the eyes of the law?? I dont know the answer but am eagerly anticipating your responses.

You would need to make sure the dog was not one that its owner loved as dogs which bite people are normally destroyed. People who set dogs on other people are usually arrested and normally go to prison so I suggest you also choose a dog owner who your members do not like.

Tawe Boy threats of violence like this are actually illegal and could be also regarded as procuring violence which is also an offence that carries a jail sentence. However much you hate to see other people out exercise their ancient rights of navigation I recommend that you learn to control your typing fingers.

Paddlers generally love to see anglers out enjoying themselves and most of us will go out of our way to help you. If your angling club would like boat based assistance with any river maintenance I suggest you ask the local paddlers some of them will certainly be up for it, especially if it involves collecting rubbish and otherwise clearing the navigation or improving the environment for the local wildlife.
Chris Clarke-Williams
Location Basingstoke

Paddling Interests:
Touring, Coaching Beginners (I am an L2K), Surf White water trips, Weir Play (I'm not good enough to put freestyle!)

Allenkayak
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by Allenkayak » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:28 pm

Hi Tawe Boy

You mention that you and Anglers believe that paddlers should pay. May I ask What would they be paying for ? and who would they make payment to ?

On the dog thing the law is quite clear that you must at all time be in control of your animal. So even if people are on private land if you know this then you need to contol the dog. Fortuanatly mosty dogs won't bite.

Regards

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:59 pm

Mr Clarke Williams,
You obviously have some kind of difficulty understanding some of the simple wording in my previous post where i stated "this is in no way meant as a threat, more for the purpose of debate". You really are challenging the stereotype that people with double barreled names are educated!
I have said in my previous posts that i do not condone any form of bullying, violence or vandalism.
As I have said previously I have no objection with canoeists using the river and previous access agreements allowed both parties to co exist in relative harmony, however the WCA pulled out of this agreement as they were pinning their hopes on a simular law to the one which is in place in scotland being passed in wales, it went to the assembly and things did not go the way the canoeists would have hoped so I think it is time for the WCA to come back to the table. Some form of agreement is better for both sides as im sure many canoeists are staying away as they simply cant be bothered for the hassle.
Out of curiousity, are most canoeists affiliated to different clubs or bodies around the country or are most of them just gangs of mates who get together? This is not a loaded question of any kind, more to satisfy my own curiousity.

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:04 pm

WeZZly,
"Reasonable and proportional force" is allowed to prevent people from entering private property, if you wish to take thins down that path ;-).

boom
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by boom » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:24 pm

tawe boy wrote:Mr Clarke Williams,
You obviously have some kind of difficulty understanding some of the simple wording in my previous post where I stated "this is in no way meant as a threat, more for the purpose of debate". You really are challenging the stereotype that people with double barreled names are educated!
I have said in my previous posts that I do not condone any form of bullying, violence or vandalism.
As I have said previously I have no objection with canoeists using the river and previous access agreements allowed both parties to co exist in relative harmony, however the WCA pulled out of this agreement as they were pinning their hopes on a simular law to the one which is in place in scotland being passed in wales, it went to the assembly and things did not go the way the canoeists would have hoped so I think it is time for the WCA to come back to the table. Some form of agreement is better for both sides as im sure many canoeists are staying away as they simply cant be bothered for the hassle.
Out of curiousity, are most canoeists affiliated to different clubs or bodies around the country or are most of them just gangs of mates who get together? This is not a loaded question of any kind, more to satisfy my own curiousity.
Hi Tawe Boy,
Well done for coming on the forum and condoneing bullying, violence and vandalism. However, the fact of the matter is that paddlers have been bullied and had cars vandalised whilst paddling the Tawe (and it ain't by other paddlers!). I know of no other river in South Wales were so much grief and bullying/vandalism has taken place. A search of the forums and the river guide highlight this. And as the posts of Wezzy the intimidation of a heavily pregnant NON-PADDLER is way out of order!
Most paddlers are affiliated to a club, some (not all) will have paid for their WCA membership. Others are just groups of mates that get together to paddle (and again may, or may not be WCA members). With this in mind this is why it would be impractical and unrealistic for any/all groups of paddlers to request the 'permission' from the TAA.
The main section paddled is probably the Glyntawe-Abercraf section, which at grade 3-4 (more in high water) isn't a river where large groups of club paddlers are going to descend due to the technical difficulty of the river (I personally have never seen a group bigger than 6 on the river). Paddlers just want to, and will, paddle the river when there is sufficient water so as not to cause enviromental damage, mostly this is outside of fishing season and there is no need for our paths to cross. All paddlers want is the ability to enjoy their sport without the constant grief from fisherfolk, and in essence it's simple, in general we are only interested in rivers when there is plenty of water in them, fishermen when there is less water in them. Also most paddlers have the respect to let fishermen enjoy their sport in peace. I would put money on the fact that no, or very few paddlers would paddle this section outside of the closed season unless the water was high and fishing unlikely to be taking place.
Personally, I will continue to paddle this fantastic river when water levels dictate.

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by wezzzy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:43 pm

tawe boy wrote:WeZZly,
"Reasonable and proportional force" is allowed to prevent people from entering private property, if you wish to take thins down that path ;-).
Firstly, is it not disrespectful to use someones name incorrectly? My nick on here is wezzzy (most people think it is wezzy but that is a different person entirely), please use it.

I do not want to take things down any path, I am just stating that I know my rights and I know the law.
Saying this though you had better be 100% sure yourself that you are in the right when you try to use force against anyone.
Just because you think someone is tresspassing on private land does not mean you have the right to eject them, if it is not YOURS then you have no right to use physical force unless you have been given authority by the OWNER, I am assuming that everyone who owns the river bank (Not just have the fishing "rights") has not given you thier authority to patrol the banks (This might come under "Manned Guarding" regulations and need an ISA lisence.)

If you have the authority to partol the numerous properties you had better know where the public footpaths are in the area, we ALWAYS gain access to the Tawe from a public footpath at Glyntawe and ALWAYS leave the river on a public footpath on River Left (Thats on the right as you look up stream) at the 1st Abercraf bridge.

I will leave this discussion now as I do not need to say any more.

SEE YOU ON THE RIVER :)

waynebrown
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by waynebrown » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:37 pm

hi tawe boy

let me just clarify where i am with this situation, i am both paddler and fisherman and deem it on myself not to pay for any rod licence or licence that the wca might in the future deem fit to issue to anyone that requires access to any river, the way i see it is that i already pay the government a small fortune in taxes each month so why should i pay any extra because i want to do something that i really enjoy, neither fisherman nor paddler should have to pay any fee to use the water because it falls from the sky, eskimos, indians and my fore fathers etc never had to pay so why should we, im all for a "membership" fee but it should be entirely up to the person whether he or she should buy one, i spend enough on my equipment, more so on kayaking gear so why should we have to pay the so called river tax to use it

another arguement i have regarding this is the environmental effects each sport has:

you will find that fishing is far more damaging to the environment than kayaking, the risks being that lines break with hooks still attached which bird will swallow if bait is still attached, dont tell me this doesnt happen because i have had to rescue many swans from a local lake for the rspca and rspcb, the latest being where a hook had been swallowed by the swan and the weight was still attached and the line had wrapped itself around the beak, we all virtually throw our left over bait into the water and in a lot of cases with the container that had the bait in some of this can be very harmful to all wildlife, lets not forget the litter you leave on the river bank and the damage to the bank while your sat there

paddlers on the other hand follow the country code, we use gates and styles where available, 95% of the time we take our rubbish home with us, we never paddle in shallow areas because we simply do not like shallow water so killing off spawn isnt a problem, we normally get into the water at public egress and access points so destroying banks etc is very minimal, i know fishermen that dont like eels purely because they wrap themselves around their lines so they cut the heads off and leave them for dead, im pretty sure that the eel is a dying species and yet you all still do it

if it was down to me i would stop all fishing espeically considering the decline in some if not all species, get yourself a kayak and have a go you dont know what you are missing i bet after a month or two you would soon change your tune about the sport, im pretty sure you would start saying up yours when you got into the sport

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:46 pm

Boom, firstly i would like to say that it is good to hear the views of a canoeist from the south wales area. I would also like to say that you have raised some fair and valid points. I am making this my last post as i think it is fair to say that both sides could go on arguing forever.
I think it is fair to say that it would be a good thing for both parties if an access agreement could be reached allowing some common ground to be reached. I have heard on the grapevine that TTA are prepared to enter into negotiations with the various canoeing bodies to allow paddlers to use the river during the angling close season provided canoes are clearly marked and identifiable to the oranisation to which they are affiliated. I for one hope that these negotiations have a successful outcome as I think we can all agree that the Tawe is a cracking river which should be enjoyed by everyone.
I would also like to repeat that I do not condone any violence, intimidation,vandalism or abuse of any kind and find in inexcusable that a pregnant woman was verbally abused, although maybe Wezzzy you should have steered clear of a situation so compromising with your heavily pregnant girlfriend in your company.

SPL
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:23 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by SPL » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:02 pm

Like many kayakers i have been fortunate to enjoy many rivers around the uk, europe and wider afield.
During these trips i have come across many anglers who 99% of the time wind in their line if the rivers narrow and watch us paddle past. They smile, wave, cheer us on, laugh at our mishaps and engage in pleasant conversation.

Guess where the other 1% can be found.

tawe boy
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by tawe boy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:03 pm

waynebrown wrote:hi tawe boy

let me just clarify where I am with this situation, I am both paddler and fisherman and deem it on myself not to pay for any rod licence or licence that the wca might in the future deem fit to issue to anyone that requires access to any river, the way I see it is that I already pay the government a small fortune in taxes each month so why should I pay any extra because I want to do something that I really enjoy, neither fisherman nor paddler should have to pay any fee to use the water because it falls from the sky, eskimos, indians and my fore fathers etc never had to pay so why should we, im all for a "membership" fee but it should be entirely up to the person whether he or she should buy one, I spend enough on my equipment, more so on kayaking gear so why should we have to pay the so called river tax to use it

another arguement I have regarding this is the environmental effects each sport has:

you will find that fishing is far more damaging to the environment than kayaking, the risks being that lines break with hooks still attached which bird will swallow if bait is still attached, dont tell me this doesnt happen because I have had to rescue many swans from a local lake for the rspca and rspcb, the latest being where a hook had been swallowed by the swan and the weight was still attached and the line had wrapped itself around the beak, we all virtually throw our left over bait into the water and in a lot of cases with the container that had the bait in some of this can be very harmful to all wildlife, lets not forget the litter you leave on the river bank and the damage to the bank while your sat there

paddlers on the other hand follow the country code, we use gates and styles where available, 95% of the time we take our rubbish home with us, we never paddle in shallow areas because we simply do not like shallow water so killing off spawn isnt a problem, we normally get into the water at public egress and access points so destroying banks etc is very minimal, I know fishermen that dont like eels purely because they wrap themselves around their lines so they cut the heads off and leave them for dead, im pretty sure that the eel is a dying species and yet you all still do it

if it was down to me I would stop all fishing espeically considering the decline in some if not all species, get yourself a kayak and have a go you dont know what you are missing I bet after a month or two you would soon change your tune about the sport, im pretty sure you would start saying up yours when you got into the sport
I would just like to say mike firstly I have no objection to canoeing as a passtime, im sure its great fun. The notion that paddlers follow the country code and anglers dont is rediculous, there are good and bad in both sports. I know all the anglers I associate myself respect their quarry and place great emphasis on conservation. As I have said in previous posts most of my fish are returned to the river, especially salmon. I know that if somebody was seen doing what you say they do with eels on the Tawe they would be banned from club waters indefinately.
As for the rod licence thing you are breaking the law and leavin yourself open to prosecution and a hefty fine, bet thats your porogative.

boom
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by boom » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:13 pm

tawe boy wrote:
I would also like to repeat that I do not condone any violence, intimidation,vandalism or abuse of any kind and find in inexcusable that a pregnant woman was verbally abused, although maybe Wezzzy you should have steered clear of a situation so compromising with your heavily pregnant girlfriend in your company.
How is this Wezzzy's or his girlfriend's fault?? The way I see it is that last time I checked it was perfectly legal for a pregnant woman to be sat in a car on a public road (presuming the road fund tax had been paid!!). Whether or not she was waiting for her paddling boyfriend is besides the point, kayaking is not a crime and for that matter being an accessory to kayaking is not a crime.

waynebrown
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by waynebrown » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:24 pm

tawe boy if a bailiff did catch me on the river without a licence that man would have no power what so ever, i never carry id with me so i could give the guy a name such as joe bloggs and a fake address in say glasgow for instance, that guy would have no way of ever knowing, another thing is the myth about the bailiff being able to take my equipment from me, the guy doesnt have a leg to stand on, without a warrent or court order he cannot remove gear from me and if he tried or made a grab me im 100% sure he would take a lovely swim, i know my rights and i know ways around the law, i have been caught in the past and i still had a good days fishing in the same spot

answer me a question, why is it that i need a rod licence to fish in a river but i do not need a licence to fish from a beach into the ocean

User avatar
wezzzy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Blairgowrie, Perth.

Re: TAWE HASSLE.

Post by wezzzy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:04 pm

boom wrote:
tawe boy wrote:
I would also like to repeat that I do not condone any violence, intimidation,vandalism or abuse of any kind and find in inexcusable that a pregnant woman was verbally abused, although maybe Wezzzy you should have steered clear of a situation so compromising with your heavily pregnant girlfriend in your company.
How is this Wezzzy's or his girlfriend's fault?? The way I see it is that last time I checked it was perfectly legal for a pregnant woman to be sat in a car on a public road (presuming the road fund tax had been paid!!). Whether or not she was waiting for her paddling boyfriend is besides the point, kayaking is not a crime and for that matter being an accessory to kayaking is not a crime.
Thanks Boom, that saved me a long and probably abusive post to Tawe Boy.

Post Reply