River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

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Mark R
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River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Mark R » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:50 pm

Last edited by Mark R on Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mark R » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:15 am

New photos being added today.
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Re: RIVER TAMAR (Horsebridge to Gunnislake)

Post by El3ctrofuzz » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:09 pm

Paddled today! (03 Sept 09)
Good day out!

Few things, Big tree and WIRE across Pop out weir. Tree Sprawled across the entire river right shoot. And a small tree/debris in the left shoot by the little wave, Also WIRE goes into this part (Left), it is tied to a tree and enters the water into the run. Was high water today and it was near the surface, so it would possibly be chest height in normal water!

Be careful!! :)

Several trees along the way, not hard to avoid but caution should be taken as they would not be nice to be in!

Thanks

Tom Bunn

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River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake - Access

Post by Dawlish Paddler » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Having refered to the UKRGB I have called the telephone number given for the current River Adviser. I have been informed that there is no current River Adviser and access arrangements have to be made direct with the riparian owners. Does anyone have any additional information that may be of use?
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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake - Access

Post by aarondaeche » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:18 pm

i used to live in gullworthy and paddle a lot there is know problme with accese just get on

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Re: RIVER TAMAR (Horsebridge to Gunnislake)

Post by mosseee » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:36 pm

There have been some issues regarding acsess up at Horse Bridge, the Lammerhoe estaes what you to get permission from them, you need to speak to Mr Forest on 01822 870231. This only affects the Horse Bridge to Latchly section, so getting on at the Latchley ford is unaffected and gives a better trip if you can get down the lane.

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Re: RIVER TAMAR (Horsebridge to Gunnislake)

Post by morsey » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:53 pm

mosseee wrote:There have been some issues regarding acsess up at Horse Bridge, the Lammerhoe estaes what you to get permission from them, you need to speak to Mr Forest on 01822 870231. This only affects the Horse Bridge to Latchly section, so getting on at the Latchley ford is unaffected and gives a better trip if you can get down the lane.
Standard rules apply: If you access from public land you have no need to ask anyone for permission.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by josh sparrow latus » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:30 pm

is this river any good in a play boat???

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River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by bobforfish » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:07 am

The river Tamar is privately owned from Lamerhooe, past Latchley to below Gunnislake Weir, which includes, as recorded in titles at Land Registry, the river bed, water and the river banks on both side, by Lower Tamar Fishing Club Ltd. You should seek permission from the Club Secretary before attempting to canoe on this stretch, contrary to some of the advice on this website. The fishing club currently does not permit canoeing at any time; the time when least damage and upset would be caused is outside the fishing season, i.e. between 15 October and 28 February. Below the Weir the river is tidal and so open to public navigation, however the banks are privately owned so there is no landing, except in an emergency and certainly no launching / retrieval. Please respect the property of others and maintain the good name of responsible canoeists.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Mark Gawler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Thank you for your input. This site encourages paddlers to sensibly and respectfully enjoy their river heritage on Britain's rivers, including the River Tamar. I am sorry to hear that you seek to exclude others from sharing in our river heritage.
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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Chas C » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:52 am

Would be interesting for to see this claimed title held at the land registry, perhaps bobforfish could post it here for all to see, I looked at the land registry site and the ownership is based upon solid land not the water that flows over it.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by bobforfish » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:22 pm

Many thanks for posting my comments on this site. The relevant titles are CL219431, CL218531, CL219424, CL219432 and can all be accessed from Land Registry. They all share a common statement which I quote from CL219432: "The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the above title filed at the Registry and being Part of the River Tamar, Gunnislake. NOTE: Only the bed, soil, banks, riverside strips and water of the River Tamar are included in the title." Our ownership dates from a conveyance in 1976. The place advertised on this website as a canoe retrieval site (above New Bridge at Gunnislake) is on our land - we own the bank and a 5 yard strip from the river edge; it is a designated public swimming area, not for landing or retrieving canoes, boats or similar. We would have less issue if canoes, by prior agreement, used our bit of river between mid October and end February. Our members have invested considerable capital to own a share of the property, they pay annual club subscriptions plus an annual rod licence to the Government. Lower Tamar Fishing Club Ltd spends a lot of time, effort and money looking after the river including bank repairs and removing trees and other debris that gets washed down. I think you will understand why our members expect to be able to enjoy their property and the fishing that goes with it. Passing canoes do not just disrupt the solitude, peace and quiet which is a significant part of the enjoyment of fishing for our members; they also alarm the fish, making them uncatchable or even chasing them from their lies. This effect is particularly apparent for sea-trout which are very skittish. We control the fishing by allocating fishing days to members. This might be the only chance that month for the member to fish the stretch in question, so you can imagine the frustration this might cause. Also we have to guard against poaching and a canoe is a good vehicle to conduct a river recce. This post is longer than I had planned but hopefully helps to explain our position. Thanks for your time reading it!

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Chas C » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:16 pm

Many thanks bobforfish.

I have read the title from the land registry that you recommended and I do think your misreading the way in which it is written, I will post up later my comments and maybe a download of the title you mention.

I will leave others to respond to your comments regarding canoe's disturbing fish as I'm pretty sure there's plenty of evidence that this is not the case.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Chas C » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:43 pm

Here are my comments on CL219432.

Section A describes the areas covered by the land registration part 1 of section A states

A: Property Register

This register describes the land and estate comprised in the title.
CORNWALL
1(12.10.2005) The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the above title filed at the Registry and being Part of the River Tamar,Gunnislake.NOTE: Only the bed, soil, banks, riverside strips and water of the River Tamar are included in the title.


The main part is that this is a Property Register - for LAND, section 1 just confirms that the freehold LAND that is registered is highlighted in an attached map in red, again the main part here is its talking about LAND.

The later parts also talk about the registered LAND.

If you look at the rules for Land Registry it clearly states that it only covers LAND and not free flowing water, there are some rules for man made waterways but not natural ones and it provides no ownership for free flowing water.

It does look like this has been misread/misunderstood by the previous poster bobforfish.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by John K » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:19 pm

That's what I thought, but the explicit reference to water seems a bit strange. Any thoughts on why it's there?

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by bouncyboatbloke » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:38 pm

Interesting interpretation from the danglers rep, I wonder if after extreme weather events perhaps people who have suffered structural damage or loss caused by [ their ] river water flowing downstream of the location of the water in question would like to launch a legal claim for the damages inflicted on their property by the lack of control exercised by the said owners of the water asset which has been allowed to flow downhill causing said damage??
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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by Chas C » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:45 am

John K wrote:That's what I thought, but the explicit reference to water seems a bit strange. Any thoughts on why it's there?
I'd assume its an attempt to clarify that the river bed is part of the registered Land in the front section where it talks about the scope of the area covered by the registered "Land", but its very clear in the rules that free flowing water on a waterway is not covered by any land registry.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by John K » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Chas C wrote:its very clear in the rules that free flowing water on a waterway is not covered by any land registry.
Have you got a reference for this anywhere? I've been looking but can only find Land Registry information about watercourses where they form property boundaries.

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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by stonercanoe » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:25 pm

My understanding of riparian ownership is the landowner owns the river bed halfway across if they own 1 bank. No one owns water in a river.
Bobforfish please don't be worried by responsible canoeists/kayakers. Several years ago the Environment Agency funded a report on paddle sport and fishing/fish stocks. This was done by researchers from Brighton University and the conclusion of the report was that there is no evidence that paddle sport affects fish/fish stocks in any way. In fact there is anecdotal evidence that you are more likely to catch a migratory fish after a boat has passed through a pool.
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Re: River Tamar - Horsebridge to Gunnislake

Post by bobforfish » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:36 pm

I'm no legal expert but I believe the principle is that if you own land you own whatever is above that land. The title specifically mentions "water", which is fairly clear.

I agree that canoeing does not damage fish stocks unless the fish are driven from their spawning area, which is not the case in the lower river. I agree that sometimes a salmon can be woken up by a canoe or dog passing over it and that then it may take a fisherman's fly. However they often lie in shallow water and if disturbed will be driven into deeper bits. Sea-trout behave very differently and are many times more skittish than salmon. A passing canoe would ruin the chances of catching a sea trout in that pool, especially if the fish is driven from the pool completely. So there is disturbance when a canoe passes and that may end the chance of catching a fish in the pool.

Thank you for your consideration.

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