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River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:11 pm
by Mark R

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:34 pm
by Red
Access agreement is handled by Brookbank Carlisle (formerly Carlisle Canoes).

Call +44 (0) 1228 531 703.

They recommend you book for larger groups at least 3 weeks in advance.

River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:24 pm
by darbinotley
Anybody from over Cumbria way have a idea of current levels on the Eden. We have tickets for Sunday and was wondering whether it was high, very high, huge, or just plain silly.

Judging by the state of the Wharfe and Ure over here in Yorkshire, I'm guessing it is quite big indeed.

All information gratefully accepted.

D

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:31 pm
by mole
Penrith angling types website says

Members and visiting anglers can check the water levels for the River Eden prior to their visit by calling the Environment Agencies 'Rivercall' on 09066197733

I'm sure other peeps could use this info, even if it is premium rate.

Gotta love the Eden in spate, mahoosive wave trains and beautiful surroundings. Have fun.

Neill

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:38 pm
by Poke
Wow.
Didn't know they still did tickets!
Who are you supposed to get them from, and what do they threaten if you don't!!

You might be able to use the wheresthewater graphs for the Nith or Border Esk as indicators of the Eden level (click on the corresponding dot for the graph).

You could also check rainchasers "River observations" page (linked from here), though I've not seen the Eden level appear on there for a while. Maybe post on their forum - they're mostly Lakes' locals.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:47 pm
by darbinotley
Tickets! Yeah it's just like the Grand Canyon you know!

When I say tickets, I that under the amazingly easy to work and generous access agreement with the Lazonby estate, they are allowing me and up to 9 friends to paddle the Eden from Lazonby to Armathwaite this Sunday. In order to get this priviledge you have to book in advance, as I'm sure many of you know. It is a very nice little trip though.

I was just a bit concerned if was in the 'monster huge' bracket as we were going to have a couple of beginners with us.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:04 pm
by kris
Currently high and rising, if the forecast is correct it will hit silly thursday through friday, dropping back down to high flows for the weekend

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:10 pm
by Jim Pullen
darbinotley wrote:Tickets! Yeah it's just like the Grand Canyon you know!

When I say tickets, I that under the amazingly easy to work and generous access agreement with the Lazonby estate, they are allowing me and up to 9 friends to paddle the Eden from Lazonby to Armathwaite this Sunday. In order to get this priviledge you have to book in advance, as I'm sure many of you know. It is a very nice little trip though.

I was just a bit concerned if was in the 'monster huge' bracket as we were going to have a couple of beginners with us.
Just paddle it when the water levels are right for you! This is a key example of why access agreements which require advance bookings don't work! Is this agreement still endorsed by the BCU? It certainly doesn't sound like it adheres to their current policy.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:20 pm
by mole
last time I was there it was a club trip and tickets had been booked but it still didn't stop one of the gamekeepers driving down to us, gesturing down stream and then following us in his jeep for quite a distance to keep us moving, words were had before he desisted. Un-Frickin-Believeable!

less bother than the Kent on the first day of the fishing season though :)

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:35 pm
by darbinotley
As far as I am aware the BCU do endorse this access agreement. It is mentioned in the BCU 'English White Water' guidebook, and 'Cumbria Canoeists' website, and on the description of teh trip on this site. I also know the BCU NW Region paid for the steps at the get-in.

If you go the Cumbria Canoeists site and follow the links through the 'access' and 'rivers' section, you can view the full agreement. It requires all paddlers to be in the BCU and display their number, and it very strict about how you paddle the river and where and how you egress.

I aprpeciate that this agreement probably took ages to set up and it was the best that could be got, and at least it allows some access, so please don't take this as criticism.

Despite not beleiving that voluntary access is a practiable way forward, I do think that where VAA's exist, they should be adhered to. I just think that the Eden one is particular restrictive.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:37 pm
by Jim Pullen
I suspect (hope) that all these are out of date.

The English White Water guide was published 5(?) years ago now. Cumbria Canoeists website shows a link to the 08/09 season access and as for this site, the guide hasn't been updated since 2004, and I'm happy to stick any comments on it by people who've paddled it more recently.

The latest Canoe England policy which I linked to above, was only finally announced at the start of this year and I suspect some local access agreements haven't yet been updated to reflect this.

Maybe Jim Wilson could shed more light on the situation?

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:36 pm
by darbinotley
Well, as far as I know the agreement is still in force. i.e. when you ring up Carlisle Canoes (Brookbank) they 'book you in' and send you the stuff. I've not heard differently, but again I will defer to anyone who knows better. However, given that people who have complied with the agreement attract attention from the estate, I'd guess that those who haven't complied are likely to get a bit of hassle.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:52 pm
by MattBibbings
Jim Pullen wrote:
Maybe Jim Wilson could shed more light on the situation?
Don't think Jim comes on here much (at all?) but I will ask him and see if he can update the situation. One of our trainees used the 'call and book' system this week and it seemed to work.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:59 pm
by Kayacb
The Eden flooded the Fish n Chip shop in Appleby yesterday and it's proerbly still rising as even the smallest ditch is paddleable at the moment!

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:35 pm
by MattBibbings
With reference to the above questions about acces to the Eden, I have just had a copy of the up to date details of the Eden Access agreement (Restrictions?) from Jim Wilson. I have them as a Word document so here is the copy and paste.
British - Canoe - Union

18 Market Place Bingham Nottingham NG13 8AP
Telephone: 08453 709500 Fax: 08453 709501

RIVER EDEN: LAZONBY TO ARMATHWAIT WEIR (NUNNERY RAPIDS
CANOEING AGREEMENT 2008/09
FOR B.C.U MEMBERS AND AFFILIATED GROUPS

This stretch of river is noted for its beauty. It is also a sensitive area. Over 5 miles, covered by the Agreement, the river generally runs at grade 11 with grade 111 in parts (notably the nunnery rapid). The combination of valley scenery, river features, wildlife and rock carvings make this trip a unique experience. The river is a notable salmon and trout fishery with game shooting along its banks. It is essential that canoeists recognise the sensitivity of the wildlife and other sporting interests. The restrictions to our passage are intended to safeguard these interests.

1st April to 15th April
No Canoeing
16th April to 31 May
No canoeing except in spate conditions as defined
1st June to 31 August
Canoeing on weekdays and 1st and 3rd weekends in each month, Saturday being the governing day. Launching from 1200 hours to 1500 hours. All canoeist must be clear of the river by 1700 hours.(subject to booking conditions)
1st September to 15th October
No canoeing except in spate conditions as defined.
16th October to 31st March
Canoeing can take place subject to booking and conditions relating to access and egress and no landing except in emergency.
Spate conditions: When the river is above 3 feet at Lazonby Bridge, canoeing is permitted.
Access point: Public car park by Lazonby Bridge left bank. Vehicles must not be taken into the fields.
Egress point: Is on the left hand bank just above Armathwaite Weir where a small stream joins the river. Follow the red marker signs behind the first building, over a stile and continue alongside the wire fence to a second stile. Go over this and proceed to the recessed iron gate at the road. This is a public footpath. Do not deviate from it (Canoes must be carried to preserve pedestrian status). Take great care not to let animals out of the field, or damage pasture, fences, walls, gates or hedges. Don’t use the private farm road near Mill Farm or the farm precincts, or the old route along the river bank past Armathwaite Castle. Be ready to show B.C.U. membership card.



Procedure for Canoeing
• Write to the local Eden Access Office, C/o Carlisle Canoes, Unit F7, Kingmoor park North Carlisle, Cumbria CA6 4SP - e-mail carlisle@brookbankcanoes.co.uk - telephone 01228 531703. At least three weeks beforehand. Enclose a S.A.E. and details of your group and date(s). (Include an alternative if possible).
• The confirmation of date will enclose a postcard. This card must be sent to the keeper of the principal riparian owner with details of the party. It will not normally be acknowledged. Do not send letters or telephone.
Conditions of the Agreement
It has always been an important part of this agreement that the fishing interests are
safeguarded. To ensure its continuing success canoeists must observe the following:-
o The agreement makes no facility for commercial groups.
o The agreement is not intended for introducing people to white water canoeing. Groups must be capable of completing a trouble free passage.
o Disturbance to water must be minimal, especially in pool below rapids during the fishing season. During the fishing season this will normally require a straight passage down river.
o No landing on any banks except in emergency.
o No carrying boats back upstream or paddling back up rapids to play in pools.
o No more than 2 parties maximum 20 canoeists in any one day.
o B.C.U. numbers must be displayed on all canoes.
EXTRACT FROM THE WATER SPORTS CODE
Keep a sharp lookout for fishermen. Keep away from banks being fished. Give a hail if you think your approach has been unnoticed. Comply with any signals they make to indicate whether they wish you to wait a moment or to pass. Keep clear of lines, do not loiter in fishing pool and cause as little disturbance as possible.

An otter haven has been established on this part of the River Eden. Its management requires, amongst other things, that disturbance is kept to an absolute minimum.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:16 pm
by nina
The river had burst it's banks, covering the fields on either side at Lazonby bridge and encroaching on the road when I spoke to my dad yesterday. There's flood warnings covering Armathwaite too.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:45 pm
by callwild
Yep Eden is at Silly levels today with it in the fields and The Eamont from Ullswater which is a main feeder still keeping the road closed at Eamont Bridge.
May calm down by more rain forecast for Saturday so would think not advisable.

As for the agreement. what a joke. It forgot to add that you are only allowed to use left handed paddles and face backwards at all times.
AFAIK the agreement is no longer adhered to. The Lazonby estates may wish otherwise and their gamekeepers will continue to intimidate and harass but you do not need advance permission to paddle from Lazonby to Armathwaite.
The Eden Owners Association took fright at the current trend to ignore agreements and published statement in Autumn 2008 in the Cumberland News stating that canoeing was banned without permission and that Legal action would be taken against anyone disobeying this.
I replied to them with this statement and never received further correspondence.
Following your recent post in the announcements section of the Cumberland News we would like to draw you attention to the fact that no blanket legal ban can exist under current legislation and the right to navigation and free passage down the water has, we believe, been proven by recent research and that the announcment is nothing more than bully tactics designed to threaten those that do not understand the intricacies of the law
Therefore

"To whom it may concern. TAKE NOTICE that the River Eden recreational users hereby declare that no right exists to stop people using stretches of the River Eden in Cumbria and that any person seeking to prevent access to or prevent travel upon such stretches of the river regardless of what express permission they feel we should have, should provide evidence that they can and do have the right to stop peoples enjoyment of the natural environment before threatening legal action that they deem appropriate."
Also the supposedly advised egress above the weir at Armathwaite and the suggested trek across two fields is a complete joke. Especially with either disadvantaged groups or open canoes, and considering that this stretch is encouraged to be used by disabled groups as steps have been put in place at Lazonby. A much better egress is found under the road bridge 300m further on to a public footpath on the right bank. The road at this point is quite wide and can cope with quite a bit of parking. However the weir on the right side should be treated with caution as their is a dangerous hole in high water. Left side is usually OK and if portaging the weir avoid the private garden which includes the rocks on the left bank and go around by the marked footpath.

Stuart Miller

Sean McGrath uses this section of the Eden regularly for his coaching courses without problems as far as I know.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:55 pm
by Jim Pullen
Interesting to hear your views Stuart, which I agree with entirely.

It does seem strange, however, that according to Matt's post, the local BCU guys still seem to be operating the booking system?!

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:05 pm
by callwild
yeah. I'm surprised as well. What are people afraid of?
It will remain as long as people keep doffing their hat and letting the Owners association think they can control it but in the real world they can't.

Re: River Eden level

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:00 pm
by Rockrat
The Eden in Carlisle is out of its banks and I imagine it'll be like that higher up as well. There are a couple of pictures of what the state of the Eden is like around Carlisle on my blog. Link in my signature.

The classic section is going to be big if the picture on the BBC's site of the bridge at Lazonby is anything to go by. Armathwaite Weir could be very interesting, or even washed out.

Re: RIVER EDEN (Lazonby to Armathwaite)

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:54 pm
by jmmoxon
River level webcam at Kirby Stephen http://www.kirkbystephen.net/eden/live.php

Includes new ones on Tyne & Tees.

Mike

Re: RIVER EDEN (Lazonby to Armathwaite)

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:40 pm
by madmick
A foot note on Brock bank canoes websites infdicates that theyare in administration sothat ads a further twist to those trying to access "permits"

Re: RIVER EDEN (Lazonby to Armathwaite)

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:31 pm
by Saira Kenwei
Hi Does anyone know what the levels are like for this river at the moment and as we cant get access rights can it be paddled anyway?

Re: RIVER EDEN (Lazonby to Armathwaite)

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:58 pm
by callwild
Saira Kenwei wrote:Hi Does anyone know what the levels are like for this river at the moment and as we cant get access rights can it be paddled anyway?
Levels are given on this gauge
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/ho ... ionId=5058

How these equate for paddling are given here from a local instructor who paddles the section regularly.
Eden Lazonby Armathwaite Wetherall gauge
0.7 15/12/2010 low level. Possible to get down without hitting rocks. Will go lower
0.95 17/11/2010 good low level
1.1 18/02/2011 top of low , perhaps medium
0.8 31/12/2010 Speeder run good low, no scraping
1.18 22/12/2011 medium penty of wave trains Weir at good level right has big hole
0.88 23,8/12 top end of low, magnetic rockcould go over it. Either side weir ok, perfect 4 star assessment


and here on rainchasers
0.55 scrape
0.95 low
1.5 high
http://rainchasers.com/river/eden/lazonby-armathwaite

As for access.... just do it. Public land/footpath at both Lazonby put on and Armathwaite Bridge egress. What else do you need? Some rich landowner insisting he controls rights over the river is to be ignored. Never had a problem and how could there be a problem?

Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:39 pm
by andypagett
Paddled this last Friday. Tried to contact Jim Wilson by email to ask about the current 'arrangement', but got no reply. Website links in EWW are defunct, as is Brookbank. Sign at put on says canoeing only in accordance with access agreement, but doesn't say what the agreement is. Gave up, paddled it anyway....

Never saw a single person until Armathwaite weir (who we then disappointed by going down the left hand side - we decided that with only two of us, one open and one kayak, we probably weren't geared up to sort it all out if it went tits up on the right hand side).

Level was 0.77. High enough for no scrapes, rapids all quite fun, scenery amazing. Great day.

Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:02 pm
by Jim Pullen
Looks like there's been little change to the "official" CE access agreement, this is dated 2013/14:

http://www.canoe-england-cumbria.org.uk ... S_2013.pdf

Ho hum.

Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:41 pm
by callwild
there are so many parts of this so called agreement that can not be taken seriously that it beggars belief !!

what are the dangers that it is for canoeists safety?

still persisting in suggesting disabled paddlers cross several hundred yards of rough field when public footpath with good access is available at the bridge.

Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:50 pm
by Wadhamite
Lulz at the otter bit - we have otters in Cambridge, and the hundreds of punts don't seem to put them off...

Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:46 pm
by Jonny1982
Had a great trip down here on Sunday at 0.9m on the gauge. Found 1 fisherman casting directly into the main flow of a rapid approx 1 mile in where the river bends to the left. I got everyone to eddy left upstream of the individual to wait while he finished casting, don't think he saw us above the rapid. The tirade of abuse sent our way was pretty spectacular, I asked if we were ok to continue downstream past him... 90 seconds of abuse and I advised the group to keep heading downstream. Can't help some people. Rest of the trip was great, lots of interest for beginners and lower level paddlers along with some swirly eddy lines and a few surf waves. Remember if you portage the weir to get on downstream again and paddle to the bridge... it's a long walk.

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Re: River Eden - Lazonby to Armathwaite

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:04 pm
by jamiemagee
Just to balance that out we did the same stretch on Saturday. Saw two people fishing together who gave us no bother but we didn't engage with them at all.



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