History of Slalom boats

Marathon, Freestyle, Polo, Slalom, Sprint, WWR, Surf, etc.
Richard Moss
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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:28 pm

C1s
I remember paddling the Gaybo Elite, which I guess would have been from the early 1980s
The club had an Extrabat, made by Nomad around 1987/8
For a while I had a Devastator C1 but can't remember the manufacturer.

K1s
Wasn't Pyranha's Image called the Premier Image (1987 I think, after the Prem IV)
Nomad Pro 84k in ... 1984, followed by the Pro Am (in '85) and the Pro Am Extra which then became simply the Extra
North Shore Delta was 1987/8 ish

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Croft
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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Croft » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:02 am

In 1976 P&H produced a stiletto kayak (name ???) to compete with the Gaybo/Letmann 'Perfekt' (swordfish in GRP). The P&H version was particularly ugly and had droopy points (this was well before the invention of Viagra). I remember a juvenile Richard Fox paddling it at Augsburg 1976. Regardless, it did not sell very well. Wasn't there also a kayak called a stiletto? P&H also made the Phaser II - which was like a Phaser but with 'wings'.

Re Fibo: the Epee would have been 1973 or 4, and the Epee XS 1976.
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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by andya » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:33 am

Croft wrote:In 1976 P&H produced a stiletto kayak (name ???) to compete with the Gaybo/Letmann 'Perfekt' (swordfish in GRP). The P&H version was particularly ugly and had droopy points (this was well before the invention of Viagra). I remember a juvenile Richard Fox paddling it at Augsburg 1976. Regardless, it did not sell very well. Wasn't there also a kayak called a stiletto? P&H also made the Phaser II - which was like a Phaser but with 'wings'.

Re Fibo: the Epee would have been 1973 or 4, and the Epee XS 1976.
Thanks for the updates ... would that P&H pointy boat be the Hartung or Sting??

Stiletto, was made round by us by Avoncraft and is on the list ...

Thanks for the other updates ... all added.


Any more memories out there ...?? still missing a lot of dates ...

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Croft
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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Croft » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:08 am

andya wrote:would that P&H pointy boat be the Hartung or Sting??
Dont think so but could be wrong - I seem to remember it having an ugly name too.

Waffle: Great memories of the first UK Perfekts being used at Builth Wells about 1975 - the boys from Gateshead had em and of course the pointy bit was soon broken off - to be repaired with a glassed over tent peg. Also Bala Mill team event circa 1976 Martyn Peters putting his Perfekt point right through the hull, seat and arse of John Shakleton in a break out - oouch!.
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Richard Moss
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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Richard Moss » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:20 pm

Nomad kayaks - the Extreme came after the Extra.

The Elite C1 was made by Gaybo and probably pre-dates the 'max' series of boats.
In the New Museum Exhibits section of www.cboats.net there's some info that may be of use. Click on 'see all' then filter for C1 or C2, Race, and Slalom to find a fair few other C1s and C2s
eg.the Pirogue and Pyrog - designed by Patrice Estanguet
The Superglide C1 is listed as a Davey Hearn / Jon Lugbill design 1997 by Upstream Edge
A Roock-Schmidt C1 from 1975
Some bits may be incomplete or inaccurate as relies on user submission

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:04 pm

andya wrote:
Thanks for the updates ... would that P&H pointy boat be the Hartung or Sting??
I don't think the Hartung could ever be described as pointy.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:13 pm

The Pyranha Premier Image was not 1987. I bought one in 1984. I suspect late 1983 may be about right.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Andy Pt » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:41 pm

The Ferrara was a Baron (I'm sure Baron was spelt with one 'r') and there was one at Shepperton this year, which must be the last one afloat!
The Ferrara was replaced with the C,D and E types which were all different volumes of the same boat (I think Baron were the first to cut boats for different volume/paddler sizes). The Barons were great boats, really well made, but they did'nt sell in huge numbers like the Pyranha's and Gaybo's.

I had the first Pyranha Premier, a great boat in its day, but the build quality was crap - they were all the same - after a season of Thames slaloms (no rocks!) it had more holes in it than swiss cheese.

I have'nt seen any mention of Shadows? can't remember the model names but our club (Millbrook) had loads of them.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:17 am

My Image was built by Palm. Very solid. Took me 11 years to destroy it.

The Shadows are on the list.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by davebrads » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:37 pm

Richard Moss wrote:The Elite C1 was made by Gaybo and probably pre-dates the 'max' series of boats.
The Elite C1 was Pyranha (as were the kayaks), I had one which I ended up using for river running for a while. That is not to say Gaybo didn't make it under licence.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by rockmouse » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:07 pm

andya wrote:I've still got an Electra81 ... made in Nov 1980.

The snipe was much earlier ... I had mine in 1977, it was an old heavy boat having been built for the Grand Caynon in 1976.

I'm guessing the Snipe design is 1974 maybe 73? Was probably around that time that full hull rocker came in for the first time.

Prior to that it was the Gaybo Olymp series that were the most used "slalom" boats, and low Telemark turns the order of the day.
I still paddle a snipe but it clames to be made by prjon??? any idears what it copuld realy bee, yes hes is heavy but strong and still sound, but not to slow copaierd to the culbs fleat of fox boats i can poast pics

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:18 am

davebrads wrote:
Richard Moss wrote:The Elite C1 was made by Gaybo and probably pre-dates the 'max' series of boats.
The Elite C1 was Pyranha (as were the kayaks), I had one which I ended up using for river running for a while. That is not to say Gaybo didn't make it under licence.
You're right Dave - it was a Pyranha design, although I'm fairly sure the one I used was made by Gaybo, it was over 20 yrs ago so my hazy memory could be wrong.
I saw a Pyranha Elite for sale on ebay a few weeks back, the description said made in "about 1979".

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by davebrads » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Last time I paddled at HPP (about 3 months ago) there was an old guy (that is, even older than me) paddling an Elite C1, rather usefully too. He had an old GB Ace helmet, but I didn't recognise him, turned out he was a GB WWR C2 paddler back in the day.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Chris Bolton » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:45 pm

Some C1s - Gaybo had a series of which the first I know was the Cudamax, probably mid 70s. The Supermax followed in the late 70's, and the Superbat in about 1982. It was called the Superbat because it had "bat-wings" - thin wings projecting about 2cm at the widest point. In the UK these were made by Gaybo.

Nomad picked up the name, perhaps towards the end of the 80's with the Extrabat (followed from the Extra but had batwings) then the Batmax, and then in the mid 1990s the MadMax - the "Mad" being Mike Dalton's initials, nothing to do with madness (allegedly). Somewhere in the early 90s was the Fanatic, which I think was made by several builders - probably a Davy Hearn design?

The Madmax was part of the family of Mike Dalton designs which included the Madjiic C2, early 1990's. I think there was also a Madjic K1. In about 1994 there was the Razor K1.

While thinking about C2s there was the Gaybo Duo, 1970s - the moulds were imported from Germany and the hull shape was so symmetrical that there were rumours that the first Gaybo boats were built with the deck back to front. In the mid 80's there was the Nomad Pro-Am C2. I think all the Nomad boats that year were called Pro-Am, the K1 and C1 as well. There was the Force2, made by (?)Leicester Canoes - not many of them were made. In the early 90's the C2 to have was the Mack, a French import.

Chris

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:53 pm

This thread has gone a bit quiet. Anyone got any further info?

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by andya » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:01 pm

Terryg wrote:This thread has gone a bit quiet. Anyone got any further info?
"this thread" is also running full steam over on the canoe slalom forum.
:¬)

I need to do a update to the front thread soon, just waiting for a decent "batch" of info to do the revision.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by jamesl2play » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:47 pm

I seem to remember paddling a slalom boat manufactured by Kirton Kayaks.
There were two models a high and a low line version but I cannot recall the name of them (it was forty years ago)
I have a Nomad boat on the garage roof and I am sure it is called a Mystery but I cannot see it on the list.
I can also vaguely remember a mate of mine paddling a Lettman Kriesel which I think was the fore runner of the Olymp series.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by El Pres » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:42 pm

Hi
I had a SPATE with a very funky glitter deck, anyone know anything else about this boat I dont know who made them ?

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Strad » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:46 pm

I'm sure I bought my Starmaker in 82, it was also followed by a starmaker II in around 85 ish...

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Peterbedingfield » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:18 pm

I have an old JC - Les Saunders says it's a Streaker - with a sticker on it "1979 Visiting Competitor Shepperton". So I gave it a 30th anniversary outing complete with wooden blades and orange BA. Highly retro but was almost as fast as in my 3.5 Vajda. Hmmm...... :-)

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by dailaffin » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi there
I don't know if this thread is still fubnctional but the following may be of use

as a kid I was told the first Keith white kayak was the Hunter. a flat decked hull very similar to a canvas kayak.
The hunter was a biscuit tin construction. Culham college had a mould and the PE Dept used to make them as their project. Unfortunately the hulls were stored shiny side up and had warped which meant the biscuit tin didn't close.
I was told his second kayak was the "supreme" a longer slalom kayak with "but" seams.
The KW3 was notorious for its flip up thigh grips and letter box foot rest.
the KW4 was a touring / fast / slalom kayak.
KW5 was a White Water racer (i was fold there were only 5 of these made).
KW6 was a WW racer with high deck - there were many of these.
KW 7's were very very popular and had the lowline version before someone put on those funny knee bulges. Kissy K had a carbon fiber cage inside one.
never heard what happened to the KW8
but the KW9 was a WW racer - and I believe the last KW.
KW also produced the KW C2 a a fairly unstable boat and then the KW Strike as paddled by the witter Bros, Woods and Brown and Court and Goodwin.

Mendesta - I believe from Spain) made the 42 and the smaller 400. They also made a C2 - very wide at the front and tapering sharply to the rear (end cockpit of course).

Pyranha made the Vedel 65k and the Vedel SS. We borrowed the mou;ds and made them in a classroom at school. good stuff that acetone.

Soar Valley produced S V Specials that dominated the lower ranking events.

Bob Vardy made the Gnat

Jaycee made the Cougar, Cougar 2 (higher volume), merano and wildcat. They also produced the JC Champ C2 as paddled by the Harber couple. They also produced the 80 cm Cobra C1 (great on surf).

Prijon had the Inn which became the Isere (the best) then the Olymps 1V, V, and V1. and finally the Olympia which always wanted to turn.

My first paddle was in a klepper AK 62 folding boat - but I don't suppose you want to go back that far.
all the best and i hope these ramblings are of use after this time.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Chris Bolton » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:29 pm

Pyranha made the Vedel 65k and the Vedel SS
The Vedel was named after the German word for very short radius linked turns on snow skis, pronounced "vedel" in English but actually written as "wedeln" in German. Instead of being impressed that the British slalom team had boats with a German name, the German slalomists fell about laughing - spelt "Vedel", it actually means "broom handle" in German.

Chris

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:54 pm

dailaffin wrote: Bob Vardy made the Gnat
Bob Vardy = Avoncraft
Prijon had the Inn which became the Isere (the best) then the Olymps 1V, V, and V1. and finally the Olympia which always wanted to turn.
The Olymps were Klaus Lettman boats (did 1, 11, & 111 ever exist?).

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by BigMike » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:19 pm

Chris Bolton wrote:Some C1s - Gaybo had a series of which the first I know was the Cudamax, probably mid 70s. The Supermax followed in the late 70's, and the Superbat in about 1982. It was called the Superbat because it had "bat-wings" - thin wings projecting about 2cm at the widest point. In the UK these were made by Gaybo.
Cudamax was '81, then it was the batmax ('83), then superbat ('85), extrabat ('87), fanatic ('89), then into the 90's first came the stealth.

I had Jons "Aramid Charger" for a while (superbat). Still the best boat I ever had. Just shows what amazingly generous people there are in the sport. From Jon it went to Martyn, then to me, then back to Jon etc.

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by foggybear » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:57 pm

i started my slalom career in a leicestershire canoes FOX then went on to get my much loved concept designs Ziggy Flyer then the Ziggy Top
i then started to paddle c1 and had a number of leicestershire canoes Devestators . these from the mid 80s
ah the memories

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by Terryg » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:17 pm

Anyone got any further info?

How do we achieve the original aim of making this a permanent reference, rather than it disappearing down the pages into oblivion?

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by madcanoeist » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:27 pm

From memory, the boats produced by Ralph Childs of Haze Enterprizes;

1977 ish - Shadow
1978 - Shadow 79
1979 - Shadow International
1980 - Shadow 81
1981 - ?
1983 - Shadow 2000

Many of these boats built in the 80's are still going strong, as Ralph knew how to build a boat well. he even grafted a Shadow 79 nose onto the front of my Electra '81 when I lost the first foot of the bow, due to a collision with a dry stone wall while competing on Washburn.

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Re: History of Slalom boats - FiBo

Post by Croft » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:15 am

Digging into my old photos I found these 2 pictures of FiBo Epees in action.

FiBo Epee (photo taken off Hells Mouth 1976)
Image

FiBo EpeeXS (MCC Goyt site at Marple about 1976)
Image
the boat in the gate top right is a Pyrahna Elite
Ian Beecroft - old-timer amateur boater

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andya
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History of Slalom boats - how to update .../

Post by andya » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:53 pm

Just to let folks know .. I've not ignored this. But since the forum change, so you can't edit posts. It makes it difficult to run a "long updated" thread like this.

We can't keep copying the list everytime an update comes in, the thread would quickly get unmanageable.

Anyone got any thoughts on ways round this?

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Re: History of Slalom boats

Post by sandylaner » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:11 am

Croft wrote:There was a radical slalom kayak called the 'Treska' (aka Trashcan) in the early 70s - but cant remember who made it - White Water/Hawksworth? (maybe thats the same one Malcolm refered to above).

And lastly wasn't there also an 'Olympia' by Letmann (as opposed to the Olymp series).
My first post on this board - almost got tears in my eyes with the waves of nostalgia washing over me!

The "Treska" was a design out of Chester. Back in the 70's, there were actually TWO canoe clubs in Chester - the main Chester Sailing & Canoeing Club, and the upstart club that was part of Chester YMCA.

The guy that ran the canoe section at the YMCA (Tony somebody I think) designed and manufactured the Treska. It was a piece of junk in my humble opinion - bad design and even worse construction. They would often be seen in pieces littering the banks of the Trywerwyn. I don't think the design was ever licensed to any mainstream manufacturer. Thank God.

Gaybo did manufacture the Olympia range - there was an Olympia "S" and an Olympia "H". The "S" stood for Sattler - as in Norbert Sattler, and the "H" stood for Horn, as in Siggy Horn. Horn and Sattler won the Gold and Silver medals respectively at the Munich olympics slalom at Augsburg in 1972.

Mike Thomas (Manchester) paddled the Olympia "S" I recall, and the only person I can remember paddling the "H" was Paul Wood of Chester. Mike Thomas was famous for manufacturing the "MT" spraydeck popular in the 70's. Paul Wood was famous for being a thug. (He gave up slalom to take up Ice Hockey - says it all really).

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