I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Marathon, Freestyle, Polo, Slalom, Sprint, WWR, etc.
merijnwijnen
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:53 pm

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by merijnwijnen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:25 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your contributions. Quite an international happening here.

I am wondering about the Accelero. It seems quite a fully fledged racing boat, with generally a stability 1 or 2 rating. Normally that would be quite out of my league. To have it compared to a Civet cat (that is similar to my current Zedtech TT) is outright amazing.

Locally a Kirton Tor popped up. That is a boat I am comfortable in, especially with the low 2-pin seat. I know the Tor is a bit slow regarding top speed, but I am tempted to go for it, and work on technique and longer distances for a year.
And afterwards maybe stick with it, or move on to something faster. I am a bit worried about ruining my technique by moving to quickly towards wobbly boats. I know how difficult it is to get rid of bad habits.

I will be in the UK in a couple of weeks, and the Eta still interests me, also because it is available with a low touring seat. In my experience just a cm seat height can make a considerable difference, even in the same boat. Any opinions about how the Eta compares to a Tor, stability-wise and speed-wise? I will probably have to decide on the Tor before trying the Eta....

Regards,

Merijn

Hengle
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Hengle » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:42 pm

Hi Merijn
I wrote the review of the Eta that appeared in Canoe Focus and on the Marsport Website, I have had 2 plus a Zeta and have another Eta on order when I get round to telling Marsport exactly what I want.
Its a fast boat that does give you a second chance more like an old style boat but retaining all the good parts of a modern shape.

The Accelero I found to be exceptionally tippy, the Supersonic 1 was more stable but still not as stable as the Eta.

for my experience I can race a top end K1 but sometimes find myself upside down for no apparent reason, and since its impossible to win a race upside down the Eta is a great compromise.

Currently I am using a Marsport Alpha which with its seat in the lowest position is similar to having the seat towards the top of the Eta but being able to sit high and therefore put more power on is a great advantage.

Hengle

merijnwijnen
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:53 pm

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by merijnwijnen » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:07 pm

Although the Eta / Zeta still are faily interesting, the decision has been made.
My wife decided I should stop doubting, and just bought a second hand Tor for me (whithout me knowing).
On Friday a clubmate was at the door carrying a beautifull Tor, with a huge pink ribbon.

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 1955_n.jpg

I am very happy with it, and will be using it for at least a year, and then decide if it is worth moving on to more wobbly craft.

Regards,

Merijn

michielv
Posts: 128
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by michielv » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:43 pm

Hi Merijn,

Funny, I noticed the add too an was thinking of you right away. When I got round to sending you a PM it was already reserved so I figured it wouldn't help. Chances are it was your wife who actually got it reserved ;-)

Congrats on your new toy and I hope you will enjoy your new toy!

Cheers, Michiel

alphasports
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:01 pm

Wow, this is "the thread that won't go away" ! As the OP, I have not really progressed on the original post from last summer (probably because it's been around -20C most of the time!) but with Spring theoretically just around the corner the paddling season can't be far off, can it???!

I was thinking of selling the Classic and just paddling the Viper but I think I still have another season's worth of self-abuse in me to try and make some progress. Honestly I find the Viper too docile (but great for gale force outings) so I really need something a bit more challenging, perhaps a Tor at some point down the road.

Then again it all might click this season in the Classic (won't bet my house on it...my tent leaks!)

Cheers

Grouchmonkey
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Essex

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Grouchmonkey » Sat May 03, 2014 5:18 pm

Sorry, bit late the party on this. I was in a similar position to the OP and got a Carbon/Kevlar Macros (wonder if it is the same one as earlier in the thread….?). Found it tippier than a Raven and I think the "4" rating is a tad generous but certainly an option for the heftier paddler in the XL version as it has a lot of buoyancy.

There used to be a very useful Stability Ratings chart on a website for one of the clubs on the south coast (was it Southampton?) but I can't seem to find it any more. If anyone can post an up to date link, I'd be very grateful.

Hengle
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Hengle » Mon May 05, 2014 9:03 pm

The stability chart has moved from the Southern Region site to the Norwich Canoe club site!
Cheers
Heng

Grouchmonkey
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Essex

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Grouchmonkey » Mon May 05, 2014 9:44 pm

Thanks, Heng
Here's the link for anyone interested

http://member.norwichcanoeclub.co.uk/ma ... ility_body

BTK66
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Location: Salisbury

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by BTK66 » Fri May 16, 2014 12:58 pm

I bought a Knysna Jacana earlier this year. I had an Eta which I loved but at 90/95 kg I struggled in waves and portaging. The Jacana has a bit more secondary stability which means I can paddle harder through chop etc. It's also got a bigger cockpit which means I can actually get in and out without rolling!

My boat is Epoxy vaccuum and weighs less than 8kg with an overstern rudder. I got the overstern because I can't use a tiller bar anymore (bad knees) and it also has the advantage of accomodating my size 12s with shoes.

alphasports
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Wed May 21, 2014 6:48 pm

I figure I may as well keep this thread going since it's the beginning of another paddling season here in Montreal...

I've still got my Viper 51 and my Vanquish Classic; took the Viper out a couple days ago for the first paddle of the season and all went predictably fine since it's a ridiculously stable boat. I'm now eyeing the Classic with a confused mix of emotions, but I'm starting to think a bit more seriously about selling it for a Tor. This is Season 6 for the Nelo (albeit with never more than 25-30 outings per season which is not enough to master that kind of boat) so I think the writing is on the wall in terms of exhaustion of any fun potential. I'll take it out one of these days and see what happens, but I have made a "test drive" request to Mississippi Kayaks for a Tor in the next couple of weeks and the outcome of that will likely determine my next move.

This is the time of year to sell a used boat so I don't want to miss that window if I decide to proceed.

Stay tuned!

PFC
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by PFC » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:15 pm

I have read this string with interest and have a lot in common wit a number of contributors.

I started kayaking two and a half years ago at the age of 51. My first boat was an Elio Cobra which after the initial wobbles I got on quite well with. Listening to members at my club who insisted that to go faster I needed to be in a more unstable boat. After nine months I moved into a Kirton Tor. Initially I fell out a lot but persevered and eventually was able to cope with most conditions and gained promotion to div 5.

It was at this point that I again listened to the "to go faster you need a more unstable boat brigade" so ordered a high volume Kirton Typhoon which arrived last November. At first I got on quite well with it but after a few hairy moments and several very cold swims in the Grand Union Canal my confidence, technique, speed and general enjoyment had ebbed away. Unfortunately I had sold the Tor so was stuck with the Typhoon.

It was after doing Waterside C and somehow managing to stay upright going through the tunnel (which was by far and away the scariest moment of my padding career) that I came to the conclusion that unstable boats may be fast for some but this particular paddler was far happier in a more stable boat where full power could be applied. The writing was therefore on the wall for the Typhoon.

Talking to Paul at Marsport and explaining the basics of my predicament I asked him for suggestions. After a trip down to Reading to try a number of boats I have ordered an Epsilon which is due to arrive next month. I may well paddle the Typhoon from time to time on nice warm days but am happy with my decision as I don't think my general stability is going to get markedly better as I get older.

Grouchmonkey
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Essex

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Grouchmonkey » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:04 am

Hmm. PM me if you want to sell that Typhoon.......

alphasports
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:01 pm

Well here we are on the last day of July 2014 and I've come to the conclusion that my love affair (or perhaps "ego affair") with my Nelo Classic is over. After re-reading this entire discussion there is some great insight, and the common denominator appears to be the error of having chosen a boat 6 seasons ago that was (and remains) simply too much boat for the amount of time I have to invest in it (25-30 outings per season). After recently buying a BIG new paddle (Bracsa II Min) and promptly falling out of the Classic within a few hundred meters, I took my Viper 51 out for a spin yesterday and realized that while it may be a bit of a whale, I get what I am seeking, which is exercise and enjoyment and the ability to selectively focus on various specifics of paddling.

For the last 5+ seasons in the Classic all I've accomplished is a very rudimentary and highly volatile level of (in)stability accompanied by a very defensive and thoroughly poor technique. So we're done with this nonsense.

The Classic is now for sale here in Montreal, and when it sells I might look at a Tor or perhaps the new Viper 48 which finally seems to be a boat intended to fill the very large hole in the nelo catalog that exists between the Viper 51 and the Classic.

In the meantime I'll be the guy out on the Olympic Basin with the smile on his face!

Cheers

alphasports
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:20 pm

To officially close out this thread (and perhaps herald in a new era!) I am delighted to announce that I sold my Nelo Vanquish Classic last week. AT some point I will test drive a Tor but for the remainder of this season I`ll be enjoying my time in my Viper 51.

Best to all, see you soon!

Leesonn
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Leesonn » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:21 am

Great thread and lots of useful hints at choosing an appropriate kayak. As a result I have gone through the learning curve over the past 18 months:

Pyranha Speeder– coming from a white water background this was ideal with great secondary stability but with a slim enough profile to use blade paddles effectively. Tended to track a little poorly until you dialled yourself into leaning the boat over as per a WWR. Was a great mixed boat for sea, river and canal if a bit heavy!

Elio Cobra – great starting out Platform for k1 racing and took me from Div 9 to 6. Once my technique and fitness improved though I could feel it,s sluggishness and wanted a more challenging boat.

Marsport Epsilon – this was a real step up and I spent many a time swimming the canals in the North (definitely a summer time activity). But this boat taught me stability and being quiet in my movements and allowed me to develop my paddle stroke. Having a platform seat was a real benefit. Being 13 stone with size 12 feet my toes were cramped and I could not see my way to paddling this at dw all day long so had to think long and hard about what to replace it with.

I had also paddled the clubs Tor with a low seat and found it to be a little more tippy than the Epsilon and potentially a little faster however for me the Tor sat deeper in the water than the Epsilon and felt more predictable; the Epsilon is quite shallow bottomed and feels skitty to me in the wash and slow to turn around.

So thoughts went to buying a Tor or moving up to next level.

After much deliberations I have found myself in a Macros and took it out for its first run yesterday _ gosh what a great choice. Lovely and roomy for my feet and it sits well in the water for my weight. It reminds me of the Tor with fine balance required for the initial stability point(still a step up from Tor) but my what great secondary stability, almost immediately I was putting her on the side and zig zagging down the canal Image should be a real benefit on the turns. Has a great turn of speed and comes up to pace within a few short strokes and in this boat I can feel the glide. Impressed.

Already thinking on next step:

Eta
Sipre Tevatron LX
Zedtech Freelancer 85
Zedtech Predator VS3 85
Roman Master
Knysna Jacana
Knysna Lacer Cx Maxi

Great links:
http://www.kajakinfo.dk/
http://member.norwichcanoeclub.co.uk/ma ... ility_body
http://www.purplepaddler.com/racing-kayak.html

alphasports
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:03 pm

OK guys, I'm back! It's been a bit less than a year since I happily sold my Vanquish Classic and kept my Viper 51. I've only been out a couple times this summer so far here in Montreal but we're not done yet.

The big news is I think I am poised to finally jump into a new Kirton Tor, as previously mentioned over the course of this discussion. There's one for sale nearby that is quite well priced and has a nice paint scheme (or lack thereof...it's mostly clear carbon with a couple of yellow deck stripes!)

Anyway, I've been convinced that the Tor should be MUCH less yippy than the infernal Classic, yet more "interesting" than the Viper. Time will tell.

Carry on and paddle safe! WIll update if/when the Tor happens.
Andrew

alphasports
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Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:56 pm

OK so I just bought the Tor...I mean, it's June so no time to waste right?! Don't have it yet and actually not sure when that might happen. Need to drive to Ottawa to pick it up (1.5 hrs). I suspect that'll happen sooner rather than later though. Will let you know what occurs when I deposit myself in it and attempt forward motion...always amusing (for some).

Cheers
Andy

alphasports
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Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:49 pm

Just picked up the new Tor yesterday (Aug 10 2015)...a bit later than expected due to vacation etc. have not tried it yet but I hope to later this week. Boat certainly looks like it will be stable enough given the slight vee hull and very wide cockpit. Appears to be quite well built, looking forward to not falling out all the time :)

jamiemagee
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by jamiemagee » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:37 pm

Sounds like my sort of racing boat.

alphasports
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Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:06 pm

Had the new Tor out for the first time yesterday, and I'm still dry :)

At risk of sounding slightly insane, my brain kept trying to convince my body that the new boat was actually my previous Nelo Classic in disguise... I was quite tense and "yippy" for the first few hundred meters, but soon realized that this boat has much more secondary stability, tolerating poor technique (over-rotation) much more than the Nelo. Exactly what I have been looking for.

Bottom line this is the boat I should have bought instead of the Nelo; it sits exactly in the Nelo catalog space between my hyper-stable Viper 51 and very tricky ex-Vanquish Classic.... a space that no other manufacturer has apparently noticed.

Onward.

gkayak
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by gkayak » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:16 pm

Looks like this thread has been around for a while, and not posted to for a while. I appreciated reading all the responses.

I've been paddling a Kirton Tor for about 12 years. The first one I had was with a 2 pin seat. I found it very stable, which was a pleasure because my first experiences in even a Kirton Tercel involved swimming.(I started paddling when I was in my late 40s) When I got the hang of that, I tried moving up to a Kirton Trainer, which caused lots of swimming. It became a joke in my club - on a quiet summer day, there's the lone splash, and they all knew it was me going in. I never did well in that boat.

But the first time I sat in the Tor, I knew it was right, and I bought it new on the spot. (Back when I had money!) A few years after that, I upgraded to a Tor with a platform seat. I wanted to be higher to get more leverage in my stroke. I stared flipping again, a lot! But I stuck with it, and eventually got my balance, raced in it, and did well. It's a good boat.

This past summer, I've found myself wobbly in the boat again - after 10 years! I haven't been able to race in the last 4 years, for various reasons, but the main one being we don't have many races in the Northeast, US. I don't know if I will ever get much racing in again, as much as I enjoy it. So I'm thinking of moving to a slightly more stable boat - one that I will feel comfortable in wind and sidewaves - something we have a lot of on the lake I go to.

I used to get to Florida a few times during winter to visit a friend who paddles. When I was there, I used her Plastex Marathon Master. I remember feeling very comfortable in it. She has one for sale, and I'm considering buying it. But now that some years have passed, I'm wondering if my memory is serving me with it. I found a stability chart that shows the Plastex as less stable than the Tor, but that may be comparing it to a Tor with the 2 pin seat.

It's hard for me to get to places where I can try different boats for someone at my level. The paddlers in my club are all 'pros' and paddle tippy Nelos.

Any ideas, suggestions, experience with the Plastex Marathon master would be much appreciated.


Thanks!
G

Jon Wood
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Jon Wood » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:33 pm

I started this thread some years ago.
Due to various circumstances-change of work patterns etc. my marathon paddling has dropped off the proverbial cliff.
Eventually recognised that it would take some time to get comfortable paddling the Classic again (and losing enough weight to paddle it).
So I sold it on.
The buyer brought a friend, another Nelo Classic paddler, to take a look at his prospective purchase.
Straightaway he thought that the seat platform in my boat was set lower than in his later boat.
Something to think about, or a chance to compare if you find two or more of these boats together.

gkayak
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by gkayak » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:45 pm

Jon,

Thanks for your response. Hopefully, I'll be able to do that at some point. Clubs here in the U..S are far apart, so we don't see each other often. But I'll figure something out.

Thanks again.

wintermutt
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by wintermutt » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:58 am

interesting discussion. i generally paddle a westside wave exceed in an open class, but dabble in other classes. i have a south african cleaver x that is my only K1. i find that when i am cold i have enormous problems staying upright in my cleaver x. no idea why - but if i am even slightly hypothermic i will fall in for all sorts of reasons.

alphasports
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Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:23 pm

Hi all, me again...and a very Happy New Year (it's now 2016...this thread's been going on awhile!)

So the latest twist in my saga: the new 2015 Tor I bought last summer to replace my twitchy Nelo Classic started going badly after a couple of initially-optimistic paddles. I have no idea why, and there's no real physical reason for it other than perhaps awful natural balance. I can paddle my Viper 51 all day in gales, but I actually fell out of the Tor after a few outings. You might ask "why not just stick with the Viper 51?" but it's a shared boat and I'd prefer going back to one of my own. I've been looking at the new Viper 48 as the (perhaps delusional) perfect balance between the Classic and the 51, but having been bitten by the normally-docile Tor I'm reluctant to step up to yet another boat I can't try before I buy.

I have until the end of January to formalize an order for a new boat in time for May delivery to Canada. If I order anything it'll be a 48 or a new 51. Wisdom anyone?

Cheers, all the best for 2016.

alphasports
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:30 pm

I got lucky and sold the Tor in December, now ordering a Viper 48 this month for May delivery. Done.

Cheers!

kvin
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Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by kvin » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

I just happened across this thread again - then realised I posted on it back in 2008. Crivens. And I still have my tor, and I still occasionally fall out of it (I suspect with a surprised expression on my face). And I still have canoes - having done DW in a Jensen 18, a Wenonah J203 and a pro boat. This year we're aiming to do DW again in the pro boat. The only way I got the tor up to a fairly steady 6mph was to lose 2 stone in weight last year, so I reckon on keeping it and trying to get stable this summer. That'll make it about 7 years of practice.......

alphasports
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:01 pm

kvin wrote:And I still have my tor, and I still occasionally fall out of it (I suspect with a surprised expression on my face). so I reckon on keeping it and trying to get stable this summer. That'll make it about 7 years of practice.......
Hah! Sounds familiar. I just ordered a new Viper 48 in the hope that it is my ideal boat once and for all (5th boat in 7 years even though my Vanquish ate up 5 of those years, though I haven't lost much $$$ despite all the transactions). I still have and will keep my Viper 51 "all weather" boat. I just hope the new 48 is just slightly less docile (though I fear it might be a handful).

2 1/2 months until spring thaw :)

alphasports
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Location: Montreal CAN

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by alphasports » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:29 pm

Another update: I delivered my unused Tor to its new owner on Monday and took delivery of my new Viper 48 the same day. I took it out on the water yesterday...stable as a rock. Winds were quite gusty and swirly so it was hard to gauge speed compared to my Viper 51, but I'm happy with the boat. Very happy to be back with a Nelo again with their excellent build quality, fit and finish, and innovative designs, qualities the Tor was missing.

Conor Buckboy
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:59 am

Re: I've just ordered my first "Masters" marathon K1

Post by Conor Buckboy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:31 am

Bit of reviving this thread but some people in future might want to read this. I'm currently paddling an ancient Kirton Espada, and God is it stable, just the perfect match between stability and shape, unlike any of the training K1s where the stern deck is huge and flat and wide and just slow. The Espada is arguably Kirtons first Fibreglass racing K1 and while no where near the boats of today, it can still kick the pants of any other training boat. The only issues I can think of is due to its age not only is it super rare (I've only seen one and that's mine) but it shows in its performance, it simply doesent have the cruising speed (comparable to a Kirton Lancer). Where it excels is the amateur Short Marathon races (1 to 8 miles) where it can put down the speed as a stable platform for putting in 100% compared to more tippy boats. Had a lot of success on choppy estuary rivers in WWR races and amateur K1 races. Even took it to Waterside series last year for the 23 mile marathon. Not going to lie, it didn't match up but did get a few friendly words and notice from the older paddlers. While not the fastest boat out there, it is a stable sprinter and a unique one too. Happy to say I've never fallen out of a racing boat (apart from one time paddling an unknown K1 with a C1 paddle and attempting a stern rudder).

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