Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

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lexdon
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Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

I recently purchased my first canoe second hand, 14ft, i repaired some holes and the second seat.
I took it down the canal but it just wants to roll over in the water. The baw is raised out the water and it acts like a rolling barrel impossible to sit and balance. It looks like its sitting on its belly and just wants keel over.
is this common for a canoe thats been sitting about. My thought is that it was made badly and i was sold a failed project, but i do hope not i spent some time repairing her.
Is there anything i can do to fix this issue?

Mal Grey
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Mal Grey »

Can you post links to any photos? It doesn't sound right, most open canoes are fairly stable & won't roll easily, even if they feel slightly wobbly to the uninitiated.

SandfordSailor
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by SandfordSailor »

If the bow is raised out of the water, is the stern as well? If so,it sounds like you have a crazy amount of rocker on the canoe.

If the stern isn't out of the water, is your seat placement correct? Ideally, if you are paddling solo you want you weight in the middle of the canoe (or thereabouts).

Finally, kneeling while paddling will make the whole thing seem a lot more stable.



(PS. If it has got a crazy amount of rocker, I'd fancy a go in it - I like a challenge ;-) )

lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

Thanks for your response :-).
The stern is out the water. i have tried to sit on the floor but it makes no difference where my weight is.
I rang my girlfriend to come along for some ballast. but that just got us both wet lol it makes a good game of its a knockout lol.
@Mal Grey,
I will take some pictures this afternoon but i suspect you are correct.
@SandfordSailor,
One seat was already in place and the other i placed where it looked like an old one was. I no nothing about canoes have no problems working with wood and fiberglass though. but there is some thing strange about this one i have bought lol.
Thank guys ill post some pics :-)


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Jim
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Jim »

The bottom is way too narrow compared to the height of the sides and the amount of flare, I'm not surprised it has been giving you trouble!

Also that Vee shaped bottom, will tend to want to sit with one side or other flat against the water, so the boat will feel tippy until it reaches the angle where one side ofthe bottom is flat, it would normally then feel a bit less tippy, but I think in a boat as narrow as it seems to be (could be an optical illusion, maybe the sides are very high) with as much flare (the way the sides slope out at the top) to get the paddle in the water your TCG is probably going to be well outboard of the TCB which means it will want to capsize.

I do think you have been sold someones project, whether it was failed or not depends on what they were aiming for and their skill level - maybe a marathon canoeist could keep something like that upright, but its a bad design for a beginner. My gut feeling its just a bad design.

Some aspects are similar to my brothers old school project canoe, except I know that is in my dad's shed and was never even finished or painted - no gunwales, couple of temporary thwarts and seams taped externally so he could paddle around for a bit in the pool and prove it worked (I understand his friends were disappointed that it floated). That boat was narrow, but not that narrow/out of proportion. I can't help looking at those photos and thinking 'school project'.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Adrian Cooper »

I'm surprised it seems to have had so much paint applied.

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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Mal Grey »

Hmmm. Yep, agree with Jim, its somebody's project that unfortunately hasn't worked out well, as they've not understood how to make a canoe stable (not that I am exactly clear on that either!!!), and I doubt there's much you can do to improve that, short of an outrigger. Sorry!

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Sickboy
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Sickboy »

I agree with all the above, who knows what the design idea was behind it. If you really want to use it, and especially if you want to have more than one person on board then you could build a outrigger set up Hawaiian style, have a search about for 'ama's, the most basic is a length of drainpipe blocked off at both ends and a couple of lengths of wood or tubing as cross beams (iakos). Would be shame to give it a viking burial without atleast giving it a good go.
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Whilst it looks a bit ridiculous for a canoe; the very bottom is not unlike some of the hard chines sea kayaks like the sirius. But with the high sides and the lack of a very low seat, it is never going to be easily paddleable.

lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

Thank you for the advice guys i agree with all above.
Jim you are right the canoe dose sit on its side in the water. I was thinking about some sort of outrigger.
Or stripping all the paint cutting it down the middle to try and reshape it flat on the belly.
where can i get out riggers lol.

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MikeB
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by MikeB »

Convert it - into a bookshelf / drinks cabinet?

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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by scottdog007 »

Putting loads of ballast in it will make it sink deeper, and as the sides are so tall there should not be any problem with water coming in. It is a very weird boat.

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Sickboy
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Sickboy »

MikeB wrote:Convert it - into a bookshelf / drinks cabinet?
or indeed
http://www.flickr.com/photos/abaraphobia/7632160596/
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lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

scottdog007 wrote:Putting loads of ballast in it will make it sink deeper, and as the sides are so tall there should not be any problem with water coming in. It is a very weird boat.
I could line a few points with some lead but seems very dramatic and i would never feel safe.
I may wait for the tide to go out and send it to Davy Jones' Locker.

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chris241
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by chris241 »

As someone has already said the bottom does look a bit sea kayaky. So you could always drastically cut the sides down, build a deck on it, put a seat in the bottom and see how it does as a sea / touring kayak.

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Dave B
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Dave B »

Turning it into an out rigger canoe looks to be your best bet. Or you could do what they did with the prototype morris minor, sawed it in half and made it about 4" wider.

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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by PeterG »

This is a Wharram Melanesia, http://wharram.com/site/catalog/buildin ... /melanesia
I built one in 2000, great fun, but you do need the outrigger -the more ethnic the better!

I used to race it with the OCSG http://www.ocsg.info/content/2003/dec/page1.html. You can even sleep aboard http://www.ocsg.info/content/2002/dec/p ... ommodation

Also done some touring in Scotland and around the Solent. Then turned to sea kayaks and tide races etc, so it has languished in the garage- must get it out again.

lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

@ PeterG
Thanks ever so much for your post peter. i am glad you had the time to post those links, they proved very helpful.
I have made some additions and will test tomorrow in the channel. Im am looking for another float rather than that long green thing.
Thanks
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1iuw1xp38g7i4j1/IMAG0084.jpg

lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

It Works!!! Thanks for the help everyone, Hope this may help some one else down the line.

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Yellow boat
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Yellow boat »

Just come to this post and seen the photos. I have a feeling this is not a canoe or a kayak at all, its half of a home build catamaran without the deck in place. A friend built one in the early 80's. His was small enough to be pulled apart and carried on the roof of a car.

I will see if I have any photo's

Paul

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Jim
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Jim »

Yellow boat wrote:Just come to this post and seen the photos. I have a feeling this is not a canoe or a kayak at all, its half of a home build catamaran without the deck in place. A friend built one in the early 80's. His was small enough to be pulled apart and carried on the roof of a car.

I will see if I have any photo's

Paul
Um, more like a proa than a cat according to the last few posts - sounds like the OP has it working nicely as a proa which is a good outcome. Self build yes - Wharram self build cats are reknown, some of them have been round the world!

lexdon
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by lexdon »

I am not sure about going round the world in it ha ha. it works great,I took it out last week on the english channel.
I had some directional problems but its very easy to adjust. I used four peaces of baton 1 b 2 and screwed them together so it has flex and strength.drilled some holes to past the pegs through and screwed those in to. only four screws and the pontoon rigging is off.I didn't feel the need for three struts as there is no sail. its very stable and good for fishing.

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Sickboy
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by Sickboy »

Good outcome indeed, it looks strangely like one being built out of ply here http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/ ... needed-lol more piroque than canoe, the same stability problems have already reared their heads and shes not finished yet...
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Re: Help! Bought Canoe acts like a barrel

Post by PeterG »

lexdon wrote:@ PeterG
Thanks ever so much for your post peter. I am glad you had the time to post those links, they proved very helpful.
Glad that you are enjoying it, they are a surprisingly dry boat even on the sea. Time to get a sail now.

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