VHF recommendations?

[seismicscot]

It's time to part with more of my hard-earned cash and this time the toy is a new VHF radio, preferably of the waterproof variety. Any recommendations or warning of what to avoid are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Clark

[tpage]

Clark, I recently bought a cobra from Richard at explore4- Fantastic value £130 and an excellent piece of kit. Waterproof and simple to use- I just stick it in my BA (no bag)..I have a friend who bought a Garmin last year (double the price) and he is on his 2nd replacement now! -Tony

http://www.explore4.co.uk/product_info. ... 055d8548c9

[sub5rider]

I found the knobless Garmin 725 very easy to use. All the oft used controls are on the front (except Tx). Did seem to go thro batteries (it's often sold with 2 Nicd and 1xNimh battery packs), tho' if it were mine I would use 2500mah AA NiMhs. Not cheap.
Whatever you get, do use an Aquasac, or similair, you really don't want the unit to fail. (See threads passim, re IPX7/JIS7 "waterproofing" standards)

[ChrisS]

The Entel HT640 is competitively priced, most controls are push-button (but not on-off, volume and squelch). Its waterproof and uses a Li-Ion battery which doesn't suffer from the memory effect other types of battery have. It lasts a long time on a charge too. The battery system was what sold it to me really.

[ian_newman]

Having passed the license assessment for VHF/DSC radio I too am also thinking of buying a handheld VHF - had my eye on the Silva S12 retailing at just under £100. On paper it appears to do the job, is waterproof, comes with all the accessories required. Any experience with this unit please anyone?
Ian

[Guest]

Does anyone have any experience/strong opinions on the Uniden Mystic which ahs built in GPS and is a handheld GMDSS (New standard) digiatl radio?

[capsized8]

Does anyone have any experience/strong opinions on the Uniden Mystic which ahs built in GPS and is a handheld GMDSS (New standard) digiatl radio?

I have been using a Uniden Mystic VHF/GPS/DSC for about twelve months. I find it to be an excellent piece of kit - everything in one box! It is perhaps a little heavier than most vhf units. It fits into my BA chest pocket and has a 3 year warranty for leaks. Would not hesitate to reccommend.

[Speciman]

Bought an Icom M-87 handheld VHF on ebay a few days ago for £165. Should be here in about a weeks time... I let you know how I get on with it.

With VHF its best to go for ones with a Li-Ion battery.. the battery doesn't suffer from memory effects and can be recharged at any power state.

The better VHF radios offer the ability to adjust the power of the signal.. usually 5 watts and 1 watt. On water with no obstructions expect about 1 watt per mile for signal detection. Aim to buy a 5 watt radio.

Needless to say operation of a vhf radio requires a certificate and a licence. If you don't have either make sure you at least know how to make an emergency call using the right procedure and don't use channel 16 for non emergency calls.

Don't 'be tight' when buying a VHF handheld - its not the kind of thing people will want to buy twice!

[Guest]

Bought an Icom M-87 handheld VHF on ebay a few days ago for £165. Should be here in about a weeks time... I let you know how I get on with it.
..,Needless to say operation of a vhf radio requires a certificate and a licence. If you don't have either make sure you at least know how to make an emergency call using the right procedure and don't use channel 16 for non emergency calls.

Don't 'be tight' when buying a VHF handheld - its not the kind of thing people will want to buy twice!

Great advice Spaciman- maybe youll get a chance to use it in you sit-on-top trip to the Isle of Wight.

[MikeB]

don't use channel 16 for non emergency calls.

For the sake of accuracy, Chann 16 is the "calling" channel - it's used for initial contact, not just for emergency calls.

Subsequent conversation will be directed to a working channel. The station called will indicate the working channel to use.

A VHF course includes details of acceptable channels and this stuff is also in "VHF Radio (Inc GMDSS) from RYA".

We used ours to good effect at Easter to get updates on forecasts from passing shipping (no C/G transmissions picked up). I like the Garmin 725 and (so far, touch wood) its waterproof. Gets washed off after each trip anyway. I would recommend applying a little Copaslip or other antiseize stuff to the screw thread though.

Mike

[Speciman]

- maybe youll get a chance to use it in you sit-on-top trip to the Isle of Wight.

Aha so people DID read that thread. - perhaps I will get to use my parachute flares, mini flares and handsmokes too!

BTW guest perhaps you would like to edit your post and change my name to Speciman -- the misspelling could be taken as offensive.

[capsized8]

As Mike points out, channel 16 is a calling channel, with DSC units you do not have to clog up channel 16 you can direct your call to known MMSI numbers ie CG. Saves a lot of repeat identity talk when calling.

[CCL]

good - glad that someone started this thread - as I too am thinking of investing in a VHF after talking to my sister on a long car journey about it - since she is a Major in the Royal Signals - its her bread and butter. She quickly persuaded me that maybe I should consider it an essential piece of kit (higher priority than GPS).
Am hoping that she can organise a training course too - so if you are based in the south and interested, let me know

Claire

[sub5rider]

.... most controls are push-button (but not on-off, volume and squelch..... a Li-Ion battery .......The battery system was what sold it....

Rotary knobs are not good with Aquasacs, and I'll not use a radio without. My main power criteria is for the unit to have the ability to use use AA cells, not all do, otherwise it's useless for week long trips - and I already carry a shedload for GPS & entertainment purposes

[Guest]

[quote="sub5rider My main power criteria is for the unit to have the ability to use use AA cells, not all do, otherwise it's useless for week long trips - and I already carry a shedload for GPS & entertainment purposes[/quote]

Do you have/use a portable solar charger by any chance? If so what one and how do you get on with it?

[Jim]

As part of my annual review, one of the competencies I am supposed to rate myself on is 2-way communication, as in with management (only ever 1 way), colleagues and customers. I wonder if I can somehow abuse this to make a case for the company putting me through a VHF course as one of my development needs - got to be a worth a try!

I too realised the worth of VHF on our Easter trip, the exciting part of which most of you have read about by now.

JIM

[Jim]

My main power criteria is for the unit to have the ability to use use AA cells, not all do, otherwise it's useless for week long trips - and I already carry a shedload for GPS & entertainment purposes

Do you have/use a portable solar charger by any chance? If so what one and how do you get on with it?

I have messed around with solar panels and my GPS but gave it up as the GPS needs a fair percentage of the voltage and doesn't really get on very well with rechargeable batteries.

From what I picked up last week VHF units are much the same, if 9v is specified (6x 1.5v alkaline AAs) then 7.2v (6 x 1.2v rechargable AAs) will not be sufficient. It doesn't matter how many mAh you have, if the voltage is too low the unit won't work. Some units are designed to run on rechargeable AA's, I think the one Nigel refers to is the same as my Dad's which is designed to take alkalines - the battery pack wouldn't be big enough to fit enough rechargeables in it. Maybe not environmentally friendly but most of use carry a couple of kilos of alkaline AA's to cover power requirements for GPS, VHF, headtorches, walkmans etc. and you can source them just about anywhere which is why they are No. 1 choice!

JIM

[Guest]

Thanks for your prompt and considered response, more food for thought as I try to develop an effective but minimum-impact approach to my paddling.

MUCH appreciated!

[Guest]

Our club has a fairly new, waterproof ICOM unit that I make regular use of (sorry I can't reacall the model just now).

The only downside is that I've found is that the battery runs down, even when not in use, so taking it out requires planning (when was I last out, was it charges etc.).

My understanding is that this is because it has 'soft touch' buttons to power on and off (rather than a mechanical dial) and these require power to operate.

[Dave Thomas]

Interesting - I have an Icom IC-M31 and am very satisfied with it apart from the fact that the battery discharges in storage more than I would have expected - this might be explained by a constant drain to power the push-botton 'logic'. Maybe it is worth removing the battery pack in storage.

As it is a Ni-Cd battery, I actually switch on and discharge fully then recharge periodically anyway, to try and minimise 'memory effect' capacity loss. This is the one disadvantage of the unit, though there is a parallel advantage in the inclusion of a standby alkaline cell carrier in the standard 'kit' as purchased.

The all push-button operation is good - I use an Aquapack (or similar - I forget which make) case as 'belt and braces' on waterproofing, and all buttons apart from 'on/off' (top) and 'press to talk' (side - under the left thumb when held in the left hand) are on the front and so readily accessible.

Dave Thomas

[willsc1]

If I may add my thoughts, for what they're worth.

I use a Garmin 725 which has served me well, but if I was to replace it now I would definitely look for a unit with DSC. The Coastguard in Holyhead are still committed to monitoring Channel 16 but I'm not sure if this will apply everywhere else in future. Also a lot of craft rely on DSC and do not maintain a seperate Channel 16 watch now, however, saying that I get by fine just using 16.

Buy a unit without rotary controls, I have seen a number where they have 'gunged up' to the point of being unuseable. They are also a pain when the unit is inside an Aquapac. Pushbutton controls are the way to go.

Whatever you get, put it in an Aquapac. Yes, it will take up a bit more space but it will be completely waterproof, will float(!) and will still be pristine after many years use.

My 725 seems fairly good on batteries, probably enough for 2 or perhaps 3 trips between charges. It came with a NiMH and a NiCD rechargeable battery pack along with an AA battery adapter. (Though no DSC!)

JW

[willsc1]

On the subject of slowly discharging batteries. The push-button logic may well require power even when the unit is off.

But along with this, the rechargeable batteries will also 'lose' their charge over time as rechargeables do. If you leave them for any length of time, even when not fitted to any equipment they will slowly lose their charge. re-charge before you go!

[MikeB]

Having passed the license assessment for VHF/DSC radio I too am also thinking of buying a handheld VHF - had my eye on the Silva S12 retailing at just under £100. On paper it appears to do the job, is waterproof, comes with all the accessories required. Any experience with this unit please anyone?
Ian

From a conversation this weekend with a Silva user it seems as though the battery life is very poor - the user commented that someone else he knows with one has the same experience with them.

The Coastguard use Icom kit - which probably says something.

The Garmin I have came with a Nimh, a Nicad and an AA tray - with the Nimh it gave 3 days use left on standby all day, with two or three calls to CG or shipping for trip logging and forecast requests before the battery read 1 bar on the display. Which would seem to tie in to what the makers suggest for realistic battery life.

Can't comment on the AA's but the Nicad will last about 1.5 days on the same usage cycle.

They are useful bits of kit and another weapon the safety armoury.

Mike.

[Douglas Wilcox]

MikeB

The Coastguard use Icom kit - which probably says something

The RNLI also use them in their smaller inshore RIBS.

I use a Icom M1 Euro V. It usually sells for abot £318 but Marine super store currently have it at £170.

Icom have a number of advantages over cheaper radios. the circuit board is marinised, it has 2 energy saving modes. It has LION batteries that last for ages. I have also been able to pick up the coastguard weather forecasts when other radios cant pick up the channel which the forecast is broadcast on.

I was also told to just let it get wet and avoid Aquapacs like the plague. Apparently condensation builds up inside Aquapacs on sunny days and hot water vapour gets through waterproofing more easily than cold sea water. My previous VHF (which cost £100 ) died inside an Aquapac in just such conditions.

The ICOM manual has a diagram of cleaning it by running it under the cold tap.

Lastly it has a very low power 0.25watt setting for local communications which again saves battery power.

Highly recommended.


Douglas

[seismicscot]

Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful feedback. The Uniden Mystik looks like a great bit of gear, however it a wee bit on the rich side and I already have a GPS receiver! I had been looking at the ICOM M1 and now that Douglas has found a place selling it for 50 quid less than anywhere else (is it about to be discontinued?) I think that's what I'll be chosing.

Cheers,

Clark

[Mark R]

avoid Aquapacs like the plague. Apparently condensation builds up inside Aquapacs on sunny days and hot water vapour gets through waterproofing more easily than cold sea water. My previous VHF (which cost £100 ) died inside an Aquapac in just such conditions.

Hmm, I wonder if this may shed any light on why my Silva S12 VHF is playing up.

One possibility I that I'm not charging it properly...I have so many flipping chargers that I don't know which is right.

Anyone know where I can buy a new mains or car charger? I've searched and failed myself.

[MarkB]

Apparently condensation builds up inside Aquapacs on sunny days and hot water vapour gets through waterproofing...

That'll be why they've started supplying them with a free sachet of silica gel then, I guess ?

[Douglas Wilcox]

Icom M1 EuroV v Cobra MR HH400 v XM 2000

Had a good opportunity to compare these over three days in the summer Isles.

Only the Icom and the Cobra were waterproof. the XM needed the suppled "Aquapac" clone and its rotary controls were very difficult to use. The Cobra's waterproofing was not tested. The Icom not only waterproof, it is also milkproof. After my milk bottle broke in the same carrier bag as the Icom, I washed it in sea water then rinsed it in fresh water when I got home, no problems.

All were great for kayak to kayak coms, the Icom's 0.25watt v low power setting worked perfectly. The others low power was a hefty 1 watt (the Icom had (o.25, 1 and 5 watts the others 1 and 5 watts). The XM2000's Nicad battery died after a day and a half, the Cobra.s 6 AA NiMH and the Icom's LiOn were still going strong at the end of three days.

All picked up Stornoway coastguard on Ch 16 in open Water, on other channels, eg 24 and 67 the Cobra and XM needed a lot of squelch fiddling and reception was not as clear as the Icom. The Icom picked up both sides of some conversations when the other two only picked up the coastguard.

In poor reception areas amongst the islands the Icom was still getting the Coastguard loud and clear on all channels when the other two were not picking up anything.

In conclusion the Cobra and the XM are great value for kayak to kayak comms. The Cobra is £30 more than the XM which is worth it for the waterproofing.

The Icom is a lot more expensive but if communication with the coastguard (weather forecast, emergency) is your reason for having a VHF, clearly it is the best choice.

Icom supplied by Maximon Solutions £270

Cobra supplied by Explore4 £129

XM supplied by Duncan's Yacht Chandlers £99 with free waterproof case.

Douglas

[sub5rider]

..... but if communication with the coastguard (weather forecast, emergency) is your reason for having a VHF, clearly it is the best choice.Douglas

But, if you're out for a week then you'll also need a second battery pack (@£60) as this unit doesn't have an AA cell adapter. That, and the knob, puts me off. I know that you have one of these M1s, but you haven't really comapred like-with-like. I'm interested in how the M31 cpmapres with M1, for instance.

[Douglas Wilcox]

Hello Nigel,

Good points. I also considered the M31. I have not tried the M31 but I took advice fom Tony Wood the Solway Coastguard before buying.

The knob on the M1 is only used to switch it on and adjust the squelch once each day. because it is properly waterproof, it does not need to be kept in a bag. All other functions are buttons. I have done several rolls with my M1 under the deck elastics!

The M31 lacks the internal waterproofing circuitry and water intrusion warning circuitry of the M1 , although it has a power saving mode it is not so efficient as the M1 so it uses more batteries, it also has poorer reception.

I used the M1 every day for 9 days when on holiday in the Solway the week after Easter, I did not transmit but it was still on the original battery, I do have a spare. If I had been transmitting I would have been kayak to kayak at 0.25 watts so I would have used less power than the M31 transmitting at its minimum 1 watt. Both Icoms have a useful 4 level battery indicator. Having used mine for three days switched on from 0600 to 2215 and using a bit of 0.25w transmission, my battery indicator still shows the maximum symbol. Also the Lion battery has no memory effect so it can be charged now, the M31 is supplied with 6 nicads which have a memory effect, of course you could buy 6 nimh AAs.

Lastly do you really need to leave the radio on the whole time?

Douglas :o)