VHF

[MikeB]

I spent an interesting day on a VHF course last weekend - for the Marine short-range licence thingie.

Picking up on the point regarding range and practicality of hand-helds as per an earlier topic here, the Coastguard chap running the course said that they regarded a hand-held as a valuable aid in emergency situations. He confirmed that they had been involved in several instances of talking to kayakers on the sea (in rescue, or just passing on progress reports etc).

The point he made of course was that the Coastguard aerials are high enough to get decent reception so unless you're "shaded" by something like a cliff or some other obstruction they should be good for 5 miles or so. Most of the coastline I was interestd in has reasonably decent coverage he says.

Vessel to vessel is different, and inevitably a sea kayak is at a disadvantage in a big sea. However, he suggested that if you can see your intended contact (the trawler bearing down on you!) then you should be able to make contact which could be useful in those circumstances.

Much of course depends on whether the skipper you want to contact is "listening" of course!

For that "cry for help" - the mayday or pan-pan call, then I feel fairly confident that the big coastguard aerial will pick it up. If I'm sitting on a rock below a big cliff on the north west of Scotland, that would of course be dependant on whetehr the aerials on the western isles were within range - hmmmmm. Back to passing ships.

On that subject, a considerable amount of the course was given to the new DSC sets and the magic "red button" with its facility to send a data-burst with all the necessary info regarding vessel identity and (if linked to GPS) exact location. The process does ideally include sending a speech transmission as well though (time allowing), so maybe the coming removal of the head-phone watch in 2/05 isn't the terrible loss that I have heard it being described as.

Obviously the same limitations apply in that someone, somewhere has to be able to receive the emergency transmission.

Clearly there are implications for sea-paddlers though and I got the impression that although there is a liason between the BCU and the Coastguard on this subject, they (the Coastguard) might have to look at this further and might need to take more account of the potential difficulties faced by sea paddlers from the point of view of using GPS linked to DSC radios, and also from the perspective of the availability of suitably equipped hand-held sets.

The GPS interface may not be that critical in reality though as he suggested that even a manually input co-ordinate would give them a target area and was suggesting that this be done during the course of a trip. (Perhaps start - lunch - stop point?)

From the persepctive of learning the "procedures" and the appropriate channels to use (and, importantly, NOT to use - 70 for example) it was very worthwhile indeed.

Recommended. There is a good reference book available from the RYA on the subject which makes worthwhile reading.

Although I've just got a VHF (and know of someone else who has too) it was second-hand. I do wonder about the wisdom of buying a new set (close on £250 ??) just at the moment.

With all that, as long as 16 is monitored by vessels (not necessarily as a dedicated watch) then it will still serve its purpose and it is still used as the emergency channel for sending the speech transmissions and as the general calling channel.

These are just my thoughts as a total novice to this - are there any views/comments from the more experienced? Anyone?

When I get a chance to use the VHF "on the water" I'll be better able to comment - hopefully not to cry for help though :D

Mike.

[sub5rider]

A bargain ... ??

website.lineone.net/~phia...e/M198.htm

They have stock, carriage £6

Onioneer

[David P]

Mike: what's your understanding (or the advice from last w/e) regarding "ship licences" or IDs or whatever for handheld radios? I've always thought that you couldn't readily get a pukka user ID for a handheld. Not sure what "boat name" you'd give anyway! Does it make a difference? [i did the VHF course maybe 20 years ago but have probably forgotten very little!]

Nigel: Thanks for the link. Not the greatest radio, but a good price for a standby/emergency device!

Cheers,
--
David P.

[Jim]

"what's your understanding (or the advice from last w/e) regarding "ship licences" or IDs or whatever for handheld radios? "

I don't know the answer, but the term you are struggling for is "call sign" or "signal letters". I can't remember which authorities call it which now.

JIM

[MikeB]

www.radio.gov.uk/publicat.../ra364.htm has lots of info, perhaps this specific quote helps put it into context:

(start quote) "A Ship Portable Radio Licence covers the use of a portable, hand-held marine VHF or VHF/DSC radio with an integral power supply and antenna not covered by a Ship Radio Licence.

It can also additionally cover the carrying of either a 406MHz or 121.5MHz personal locator beacon (PLB). This licence is usually issued to someone who intends using a hand-held radio on more than one vessel.

It is issued with a T reference as opposed to a vessel call sign and it is usual using the vessel name as an identifier because of this." (end quote)

Elsewhere in the various bits of info is reference to the MMSI identifier which is issued for use with DSC kit.

Anyway - returning to the "real world", the instructor never actually mentioned "call signs" at all - all the examples, exercises and the test used the vessels name (MV Mary Rose / yacht Skippy) and (where appropriate, the MMSI number).

As the only sea-kayaker on the course, I was a bit of an oddity (yeh, yeh - I know I am an oddity :p ) and the instructor merely suggested either devising a name for the boat (or the group!) and using that as the communications identify when calling. He even said "just use the name 'sea kayak group'". I think I may be a little more specific if I do invent a name for a group I'm with, if only to avoid being confused with Jim's crowd in the Easter hols. :lol

Realistically, unless some other group comes on air using the same "name" then it is not going to be an issue.

As it doesn't seem that kayaks have to be registered anywhere, and therefore dont have to be either named or given a "call-sign", its probably a non-issue. On a purely personal note, it might encourage me to name mine now but I suspect that fancy gaelic, mystical interpretations might be somewhat less attractive, given that you might be asked to spell it phonetically!!!

IF I had a DSC radio, then obviously it would have an MMSI number allocated to it. I presume that the specifc craft details would be missing on the database, given that there is a specific licence for hand-helds.

As another "real world" aside, it could perhaps be suggested that, given the relative lack of radio detector boats operating in and around the costlines of this country, perhaps the issue of a licence is down to ones morals, interpretaion of the law and personal willingness to obey it.

Certainly the licencing course was very valuable from the persepctive of learning the procedures. And if you want to have an operators licence, thats a "one-off" cost. The "ships licence" is an annual fee, but it's hardly a large amount at £15 for a hand-held.

Mike. (Eskimo 1?)
:rolleyes

[Jim]

" Anyway - returning to the "real world", the instructor never actually mentioned "call signs" at all - all the examples, exercises and the test used the vessels name (MV Mary Rose / yacht Skippy) and (where appropriate, the MMSI number)."

Nearing contract completion I have had to fill out various bits and pieces of general information, or at least find the bits of information for the commercial people to put on official documents, I therefore know from experience that:

'MMSI Number', 'Call sign', and 'signal letters' are all different names for the same thing! Trust me I spent absolutely ages working out the MMSI (does it actually have 3Ms?) the first time I came accross it. None of our electrical and instrumentation guys had heard of it, the classification surveyor didn't know what it was, I think it was one of the ships crew that pointed me in the right direction eventually!

Trivia, All ships have an IMO number and also a classification society number, if the class is Lloyds they are the same, if not Lloyds it's different!

Also shipyards work with hull numbers (i.e. our own serial number), no-one else uses this number (well the on site surveyors do) and it's amazing how often people ask us about a ship by name and get a blank stare, or we refer to a ship by hull number and blank stares in return!

JIM

[MikeB]

" 'MMSI Number', 'Call sign', and 'signal letters' are all different names for the same thing! "

Emmmmmm - sort of. I suppose.

www.itu.int/ITU-R/terrest...index.html and the search page at www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/..._search.sh are all interesting.

Now then - how many "annie's" are there? - Wow!

Eskimo 1

[Jim]

"Emmmmmm - sort of. I suppose."

OK so they are assigned together if not physically the same.

Under what circumstances is MMSI required?

Unfortunately my job has been gradually changing (for the worse) over the last few years and I haven't been involved with this stuff for ages, and probably never will be again. It's got a lot less interesting :-(

JIM

[MikeB]

Ahhhhhhhh. Yeh, work sucks. Still, much though I hated my "old" job (well, aspects of it anyway) I did like the income and various other bits.

MMSI = a "must have" for all big boats, registered fishing boats and boats licensed to carry more than 13 passengers. Thats now.

Its the magic bullet that sends out a data burst with all the relevant info - if you have one of the craft above, you HAVE to have the new DSC radio and that means you get allocated an MMSI.

The MMSI is unique - the database contains all the info on the craft and is accessed when the distress comes in so the rescue contre knows who you are, where you are and all sorts of other clever stuff. Sounds good.

Must be better than trying to work out your position as your 40ft sailing boat sinks under you in a force 10, on a dark and stormy night in the middle of somewhere.

Its advisory for the rest of us. Now, how do I fit radar, EPIRB, GPS and a 25wt DSC radio on the Quest?

Mike.

[sub5rider]

So, Mike, in the month since your last post on this topic have you actually used your vhf whilst in the boat ?

I ask, because The Guru is arranging a VHF course and I've put me name down for it.....

Just curious.

Cheers 'n' Beers

For those interested:
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISA...2420596038
currently £101, rrp£199
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

[MikeB]

Well, as you ask - "sort of" is the answer! I say that because I've hardly done any paddling since getting it and the licence.!

That said, I have taken it with me on the two outings I have managed.

Certainly I got the weather forecast update on one and did a bit of listening.

This weekend I took it on an outing to the Farnes and asked for a radio check on the way back (I knew it "worked" but was kind of loath to call the C/G just for a check - seems a bit "CB'ish".) Anway, "loud and clear" was the response - probably about half way out at the time - also was able to monitor a lot of "traffic" just for the fun of it and I suppose it would have been useful had the pleasure-boat who seemed in total ignorance of our right-of-way :b really been a danger to us.

Once the novelty wears off I'll probably carry it in the deck bag but I must admit I do like having it with me.

Enjoy the course - Mike.

[sub5rider]

It's official, I'm a smooth operator and have a leesonce to prove it,

For all those vhl-less folk out there Garmin now do a model (725E) without any rotary controls - which makes operating it in an AquaPak an absolute cinch.
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

[pizak]

I've been thinking of doing the VHF course as well. While you can call the Coastguard on your mobile, they seem to think that VHF is the right way to do it!! And at 17 and a half feet I reckon my boats as long as many a mariners :b

The only thing putting me off is finding a decent waterproof VHF handheld for anything less than a small fortune.

Paul

[sub5rider]

Waterproof, or not, you'd be sensible to use it inside an Aquasac anyway. It seems that the J7(?) "waterproofing" standard is inadequate for us sea-kayakers.

See the GPS threads...

I reckon we must have heavier water in these parts - I blame Sellafield...
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer