Devizes to Westminster - 2009

[Eliza Dolittle]

Last weeks bruises haven't faded yet, but when I went down the club this morning there were 2 fresh faces who wanted training for next years race.
The DW horror stories (past and present) didn't dissuade them, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that I'd do it again. Only 370 odd days to get them into shape.

[jamesl2play]

I was wondering when someone would start this thread, is it only 370 days to go? We have two new crews here for next year. We actually went out for a run over the sand dunes today as a way of saying 'it starts here'

Just need two k2s, I feel a trip to Marsport coming up.

[CaveGirl]

Kevin (Hilton) and I started training for DW 2009 in December. Looking for a new boat now as 5.16 mph is the fastest we can get our old Ardeche to go :-( But we had fun in Watersides B and D. Looking at a possible Kirton Pacer K2 (second hand) but it doesn't look awfully stable.. does anyone out there know if this is a suitable DW boat ? Only got photos to go buy at the moment....
Christine

[Mike_M]

Christine,
A Pacer is a suitable K2 for DW. They were manufactured by Kirton from the mid 70's to early eighties. So this is quite a old boat but well built. In terms of speed the Pacer is quicker than the Mirrage which is probally the most common boat for novice DW crews.

As with all crews new to DW I strongly recomend that you get in contact with a marathon club. This will allow you try several different boats as well as getting some coaching.

If you have no experiance of race K2's you will probally find the Pacer unstable. But with a year to train you should be able to master a Pacer before the cold of next winter.

Good luck

Mike

[CaveGirl]

Thankyou Mike - sound advice. I don't suppose you have any idea how much a boat like this (with a few good scrapes on the hull) would be worth (she is being sold with V bars though I already have some - but these would be handy to put on a second car for roadcrew etc..) - how much can we reasonably expect to pay ??

[Beth_D]

Hello folks,

I've been following the DW messages with interest. A very heartfelt congratulations to everyone who had a go!

Alison and I competed in the DW this year, and had a good (but eventful!) race. Just wanted to say thanks to all those who smiled at us when passing, and at all the various support crews who clapped us on at the portages!

I'm still thinking about DW next year, but I'm going to carry on training over the summer at least. Anybody up North (Durham area) who wants to paddle with Alison and I, let me know!

Might see some of you at some races over the summer...not too many though, they're generally a long way from Durham!

Cheers,

Beth

[jamesl2play]

Thanks for all the advice Mike, I think you are going to be well used over the next twelve months ha ha.
The more I think about what you are saying the more I am resigned to the fact that this is going to be a two boat excercise. The first one needs to be a fairly stable second hand boat like a Mirage for instance so that we can master the technique and then a race boat some time in the future which may have to be a new one if we are to get the one we want. What is a typical delivery time for a new one?

If a Mirage is 5 on the tippy scale and a Stiletto is a 4 then a Marauder at 2 is going to be far too tippy. So what other boats are there around the 4 mark?

Christine, the price is creeping up, good luck with it.

[Mike_M]

Christine,
Regarding a price for a Pacer. It is difficult to estimate a price without looking at the condition of the boat. I would think it would be worth somewhere between £100 and £200 depending on condition.

James,
There are few boats with a similar stability to a Stiletto.

Falcon - Marsport
Maker - Kirton
Vitesse - Eclipse
George Oliver also builds a similar boat

The next step up from the Stiletto would be boats similar to a Regina

Boxer - Marsport
Regina - Kirton
Wisper - Eclipse
Vipre - Nick Pink

Some of the modern narrow designs are more stable than most people expect

Gamma - Marsport
Vajda
mustang - Kirton

Do not worry too much about having the latest K2 design for DW, comfort and stability is more important than sprint speed. Remember the record is held by Brian and Tim in a Maker.

Delivery of new boats is difficult to estimate. Typically it takes about a week to build a boat but it is best to give them three to four weeks to cure before use.

Good luck

Mike

[CaveGirl]

Thanks for this Mike. The price has gone over £460 so somebody must really want it. We were hoping for a cheap (but faster than our bathtub) K2 to continue our training in - so if we destroyed it, we've only lost a few hundred quid rather than thousand....then obviously buy much newer at the end of the year.
If anyone knows of a cheap, battered (ish) K2, please let me know.
Chris

[Eliza Dolittle]

comfort and stability is more important than sprint speed

I'll second this statement by Mike. I found that my balance/confidence in my balance decreased as I got colder and more tired. It's not such an issue on the 4 day race where you get a good nights sleep between stages.

[jamesl2play]

Thats great Mike, thanks for that now we have something to go on.

[OliNewman]

Hey everybody,
Im thinking about doing DW nest year, I did it back in 2004 and trained up for it in 2005, but A levels got in the way! Anyway im after a K1 to do some training in, but really struggling to find any second hand. Anyway, any advice as to what sort of boat I should be looking for, and any suggestions as to where to look would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much
Oli

[peebee]

Oli,

The most sensible option is to go and visit your local Canoe Club.If you are in Oxford that would be Falcon CC just upstream of Donnington Bridge. They specalise in marathon & sprint racing and will have a range of boats to look at & try. They may know of local boats for sale.

Other localish clubs that have strong marathon sections include Banbury, Reading (who have a good For Sale page on their website) and Wokingham(who conveniently have Marsport right next door) Marsport have a range of boats to demo, new & s/hand.

Paul

[Mike_M]

Oli,
I agree 100% with Paul get invoved with your local marathon / sprint club and try a range of boats before you spend your cash.

Chris,
£460 for a Pacer sounds very expensive it must be gold plated.
Makes me wish I had not trashed my Pacer on the Exe. Where are you based?

Regards

Mike

[CaveGirl]

I'm glad you said that - we bailed out and didn't put in any more bids. The boat wasn't ready to go anyway - it had a hole in it - and was missing a rudder. It was ok but had seen better days. I am based in Salisbury and Kev is based in Dorchester. I'm thinking of joining Southampton CC but they meet Tuesday evenings which is difficult for Kev after work. We usually paddle from Pewsey or Saltford on the river Avon near Bath. We're keeping an eye out for a second hand job and if none are forthcoming by the middle of the month, then we'll buy new and just hope we don't break it before next Easter !!

[Mike_M]

Chris,
I am sure that there are people paddling most days at Southampton not just Tuesdays. There are several paddlers who compete regually at Haslers and the Watersides. I am sure they will be willing to give you lots of help and support for DW.

Another option is Bradford on Avon canoe club who have a long and sucessfull record in DW.

http://www.boarc.co.uk/

Good luck

Mike.

[Hengle]

Hi Cave Girl
Southampton will be keen to help if we can, The club is just building in to sessions on Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat with a non club meet on Sundays.

However I will endorse Mike in that Bradford should be looked at as well.

Cheers
Hengle

[Hengle]

Hi Cave Girl
Southampton will be keen to help if we can, The club is just building in to sessions on Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat with a non club meet on Sundays.

However I will endorse Mike in that Bradford should be looked at as well.

Cheers
Hengle

[Hengle]

Hi Cave Girl
Southampton will be keen to help if we can, The club is just building in to sessions on Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat with a non club meet on Sundays.

However I will endorse Mike in that Bradford should be looked at as well.

Cheers
Hengle

[CaveGirl]

Hi
That's very useful to know. I'll have a chat with Kev and then drop the secretary another email. Thanks for all your help, I expect you'll hear me waffling again soon ;-)
Chris x

[kvin]

Bradford are doing training sessions on the Avon at 6 on Wednesdays and 2 on saturdays - this week they had 20 plus paddlers out on wednesday evening all in k2's and there's a variety of boats available. The club is on a mile plus stretch of the avon between weirs but only a hundred yards or so from the canal as well. I gather with the number of paddlers there are people out other evenings too.

[mharrall]

Cave girl,

eBay is not the best place to buy a boat, you'll almost certainly end up paying over the odds for one. £460 for any kind of K2 (even an old 80s model) doesn't surprise me in the slightest. You are better off looking through the adds on the reading CC website ( www.reading-canoe.org.uk/ ) and also the canoe focus website ( www.canoefocus.demon.co.uk/members.html ), these are the most likely places for K2s to turn up. They are difficult to come by though, and with prices for new ones starting at well over £1000 it's not surprising that they don't come up very often, usually they are sold within clubs and never appear on adverts at all.

I also wanted to back up Kevin's comments on BoARC. I think we had 12 K2s in an interval session on Wednesday, and there was a variety of boats ranging from the fairly stable to the very tippy. I'd recommend the Saturday afternoon session to begin with if you decide to travel up. Saturdays are more geared towards newcomers and beginners.

Martin

[CaveGirl]

Ooh, ooh.......all confused now ;-) Seriously, thanks for the advice and it's great to feel welcomed when we are starting out. We both felt a bit lost at the Watersides, not knowing anybody and people stared at our boat so we put it further away from the car so that nobody thought it was ours lol !!
I really do need to speak to Kev and see what he thinks. I'm in a lucky position that I work shifts so I can always do midweek and occasionally weekends. Kev works 9 til beyond 5 and has to travel from Dorchester which is most unhelpful. I'll see what he thinks and then come back.
I know K2s are hard to find, and we are kinda running out of time really - I wanted to be in a new boat by the end of this month to get the wobbling over and done with. Kev and I are both cave divers and are going on seperate expeditions in June (I'm away for 3 weeks) and August (he's away for 2 weeks) so that's a lot of training we are going to miss out on. I'd rather grab a boat on ebay than drift along for months without being able to find one. I'll look at Reading but we agreed that if nothing came up by mid-april, then we will just lump it and buy new.

[OliNewman]

Cavegirl,
There is a k2 currently on ebay, a Sprint k2 going for £250, thought you might be interested if you had not already seen it!

Thanks for the advice about visiting clubs, am investigating, but still after a k1 if anyone knows of nice boat going suitable for someone going into there first k1 after a while away from paddling.
cheers
Oli

[Mr_Lemming]

Kev and I are both cave divers...

Aha - I think that qualifies you with the perfect level of complete insanity required for DW...

There were times this year when being underwater out of the wind, snow, hail, driving rain etc seemed quite attractive... (and I was only on the towpath...)

[CaveGirl]

I suspect once we have a tippier boat we will be spending a lot more time underwater than we bargained for lol !!!
How unstable would the avoncraft be ? It looks dreadfully narrow upfront but flared at the back. It's on ebay, £250 no bids yet.
p.s It turns out I know the guys who bought the Pacer which was also on fleabay - they had not been told about the hole in it or that its condition was poorer than they were led to believe - so they got a few quid off. I should jolly well think so too!

[Beth_D]

Whilst April 2009 is a long way away, I thought I might post to see if anyone has any useful comments on my conundrum.

When I did the DW in 2005 I suffered greatly both during the race and for three months afterwards with tendonitis. I had never had this before, but 21 hours of continuous paddling was obviously too much!

So, in 2008 I was keen to avoid a similar fate. Therefore, I:
Made my paddle shaft thicker using a tennis raquet grip;
Worked hard on my technique so minimise bending of wrists;
Wore neoprene wrist supports during the race;
Took ibuprofen for 2 days before and during the race to reduce inflammation (on advice of my physio!);
Drank protein drinks during the race to help my body repair itself.

These things obviously helped because I had far fewer problems this year. However, my forearms are still sore after the DW, and I still had sore wrists (much better now though!).

So, given that avoiding tendonitis completely is going to be nigh on impossible, what else can I do to minimise it?

As a recreational white water paddler, I have occasionally borrowed other people's cranks. These I found very comfortable. However, the marathon world does not seem to use them.

So: Why do marathon paddlers not use cranks? And could they help my poor forearms and wrists?

Does anybody else get tendonitis? And what do you do to prevent it?

Thanks very much,

Beth

[mharrall]

Cranks in the marathon world are not completely unknown (read that as you wish :-) ). I had a set a few years back but didn't get on with them.

I had tinosynivitis (sp?) and cured it by a) enlarging the paddle grip, b) altering the angle of feather to about 30 degrees to avoid bent wrists completely, and c) switching from a carbon to glass shaft.

[jamesl2play]

We made our first trip to Marsport last Saturday and received a warm wlecome from Craig and Chris.

Ebay is definately not the place to buy a boat unless you know excactly what you are after and one just happens to appear, which seems very unlikely.

We tried a Condor first (wobble factor 8), this was very stable considering my Son had only paddled a K2 a couple of times previously and I had not been in one for 17 years and we have never paddled together.
We then tried a Toucan (wobble factor 4/5). The difference in speed was very noticeable. We wern't so stable but there were no support strokes.

So we now know we need to buy a 4/5 boat but not off Ebay.

Also, found out there is a club at Cardiff Bay which has members paddling Marathon & Sprint so we are off down there next Saturday. After listening to all the advice our plan is starting to come together.

[Eliza Dolittle]

Hi Beth,
The first set of cranks I saw belonged to a marathon paddler. Sea paddlers also do long distance work and many of them swear by cranks. Have a look at the sea pages for discussion of their merits. Many sea paddlers are also moving over to wings.
I had problems with an inflamed tendon on my right wrist at the end of 2004. I shrink wrapped an oval section onto the right hand which had the benefit of a) increasing the shaft size and b) relaxing my grip because I knew where the blade was. Tim Middlehurst (of Canoesport) supplied the oval section and the heat shrink wrap for a couple of pounds. My feather is also smaller than standard, I use 45 deg right, the same as my whitewater blades..
Interestingly, after this years race I had a sore left wrist. I'm not sure if this was due to a slight tendency to grip tightly in the cold, or whether I altered my technique slightly after bashing my forearm on a portage. It's OK now though and I'll be back in a boat later this week.