www.SustainableExpeditions.org

[tomthehaggis]

Dear Paddlers

Sustainable Expeditions
The website (see above) is finally up and running! It’s not completely finished yet…but will be by this weekend! When I first had the idea at the start of 2007, I posted on here, and received some useful and interesting comments. They contributed to the shaping of the organisation. SusExp is not operating to make a profit, and would be delighted to receive any form of sponsorship to help achieve the organisation's stated goals (see website). It might go on to something bigger, as it easily could because I think 'sustainable holidays' is a booming industry. However, just now, here's what it is...

In brief: I’m doing an expedition (mainly solo, but with some company here and there, up the Western Isles from Berneray (Barra Head) to the Butt of Lewis in May . The aim of it is to promote sustainable lifestyles by gaining as much media coverage as possible. On the trip I’ll be doing things in as many environmentally friendly ways as possible. For example, I’ll be cooking on driftwood and heather, catching fish, sleeping in a Bivvy under a tarp, staying in local hostels when available, will have a solar panel to charge GPS/VHF/phone, will be using Sphagnum moss and a trowel for sanitary issues, and wil be buying food from local suppliers, amongst other things.

Sponsorship
There are still things that I need for the trip that if I was given, would greatly appreciate and reward. To make this expedition attractive to sponsors, I have a wider media plan based around the trip plan, which includes interviews with local newspapers (the very local Guth Bharraigh – News of Barra, and the Stornoway Gazette) as well as Ocean Paddler being interested, plus the website, which has already achieved some interest, plus the coverage already on the UKRGB. So there’ll be all that coverage for people, plus photos, video footage, interviews.

So in short, if any of this interests you, or if you are part of a company you feel might be interested in promoting something like this then please get in touch. Or if you would just like to find out more, or of you want to help out… Things I’d really like are: a fibre glass (expedition volume) boat, if not a wooden one!

Looking forward to hearing from you! Kind regards,

[Simon Willis]

Hi Tom
Good luck with this. The hotlink to your website has a stray comma in it , so it's not linking to the correct url.
S

[tomthehaggis]

Thanks for pointing that out Simon. And if you feel like you'd like to help in any way more than you already have (i.e. your media plan idea), then please feel free :)

Hope all's well! Cheers

[MikeB]

- - is a not-for-profit, charitable organisation.

Then you need to have a Charities reference number! Don't see that noted anywhere. Just a thought.

Mike.

[al27]

Just curious; You mention in your website that you want to paddle in Australia, New Zealand, Scandanavia etc. Just how is jetting off to these places (I assume you're not paddling there) sustainable?

All the best, Al.

[ChrisS]

Sustainable Expeditions doesn't seem to be registered with the Charity Commisssion orOffice of the Scottish Charity Regulator but perhaps you can have a not-for-profit charitable organisation without it being a registered charity?

[MikeB]

- - perhaps you can have a not-for-profit charitable organisation without it being a registered charity?

Er, that would be a "no" according to the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005.

Seriously, you can't call yourself a "charity" Tom unless you are actually one.

Mike.

[AllanJ]

Tom,

re the website - change the colour - scheme bright blue on black it hurts my eyes and gives it a circa 1995 look.

As Al27 says, jetting aroud the world kayaking isn't any more sustainable than jetting about doing anything else. Maybe your emphasis should be on having minimum impact on the places that you visit rather than a blanket statement about the environment generally.

Unless you only ever paddle from your doorstep*, kayaking is always going to use a lot of energy transporting boats and paddlers.


"Expedition" that's when you try to get someone else to pay for your holiday :)

Cheers
Allan

* and not everyone enjoys that opportunity.

[Mark McK]

Hey Tom

Looks like your plans are going well, I hope you have a good trip. Unfortunately I've gone and got myself a real job so won't be able to join you!

If your still looking for a glass boat then I'm selling mine and could probably manage to get it to Oban/ Fort William for you. Let me know if your interested, details below.

Island Expedition For Sale

[tomthehaggis]

Good, I'm glad this has sparked some controversy and a certain amount of debate, because in the end, if SusExp provokes some thought, then it's done what I wanted it to do. Now, I'll try and deal with the issues.

Reply to ChrisS and MikeB
Ah yes, the charity thing, I thought someone would have brought that up, so I'll deal with that. I didn't try to make any legislatively correct statement when I said "not-for-profit, charitable organisation". Thank you for pointing it out though - sea kayakers all seem to be a pretty well educated bunch! So, for those of you that are unhappy with what I stated, then I'll change it to "Sustainable Expeditions is not trying to make any profit from any of it's activities, and although not a registered charity in any way, it is a 'charitable organisation' in the sense that it is willing to accept sponsorship."

Reply to Allan:
Thanks for the travelling comment Allan. You're exactly right about the blanket statement / specific activities debate. If you look on the website, the philosophy is that "...if we're going to do these activities, then why no do them with as little environment impact as possible" - so my argument isn't about not doing activties, it's about how you do them. I'll combine paddling in other countries trips I would be on anywa, with going away to see family, in Aus, and will take as many forms of transport that aren't jet setting on the way that are practically possible.

Taboo
Ok, so I think that deals with the questions, if not, please continue. Now, I'd like to bring up the taboo subject of sustainable debate, and would like to hear what people think of it. In my opinion, the most controversial and least discussed topic under the sustainable label is: the conflict between enjoying life without concern vs feeling concern and responsibility for the impact our activities have on the environment. It is my main conflict because the best thing that we as humans could do for the environment is to stay at home, now that we are here! But who wants to do that!!

Re the website, I like the colour, and various other people have told me they like it. It's got a black background because that uses less electricity than a white background, and to me it seems like there's less 'glare'. Sorry if it hurts you're eyes. I'll consider changing it there's widespread comment about it being awkward to look at.

Thanks for the comments/discussion - all welcome. Happy Paddling.

[al27]

The problem is Tom, that I don't think you're going to get much of a debate here, as you're pretty much preaching to the converted. I'm struggling to find any difference between your trip, and what we do pretty much every weekend; we camp, we buy local (easy if you dont have a large supermarket) or it comes from the garden etc etc. Thats one of the reasons that we do sea kayaking as opposed to motor racing. (OK forgive all the generalisations, I'm sure theres someone here who does motor racing as well...) Sustainability, environmentalism, call it what you want, but its hardly a taboo or ground breaking subject (to me, I can't obviously speak for others).

Al.

[MikeB]

- - although not a registered charity in any way, it is a 'charitable organisation' in the sense that it is willing to accept sponsorship.

Forgive me for splitting hairs and/or being excessivly pedantic (shades of UKRBP here) but you aren't a "charity". So why say you are? Receiving sponsorship has nothing to do with Charitable Status

Why not just say that you are not operating to make a profit, and would be delighted to receive any form of sponsorship to help you achieve the organisation's stated aims.

That said, there wouldn't appear to be any obvious reasons why you can't be a charity. But, the only obvious beneficiary would appear to be you! And that's not what charities are about. And it's for that reason I'm highlighting this as I can see how that could turn people off. It's all about perception.

Just a thought - Mike.

[tomthehaggis]

Mike, you're right, I couldn't agree more, it sounds great, and I couldn't have put it better myself! With your permission (?), I'd like to change my first post, to forget about any mention of charity, and say what you said!

Cheers,

[tomthehaggis]

The problem is Tom, that I don't think you're going to get much of a debate here

I don't think there's a problem, the topic has already caused a significant amount of debate (if you remember, I posted back in June 07 about SusExp).

...as you're pretty much preaching to the converted.

Firstly, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm preaching, I'm not trying too, I really just want to raise awareness of the issues with people, and provoke a bit of thought, that's all. Secondly, do you really think, the Sea forum are the environmentally friendly 'converted'? I'm sure there're lots that aren't 'converted', I also don't think it's as black and white as that, also I'm in no way trying to 'convert' people.

I'm struggling to find any difference between your trip, and what we do pretty much every weekend; we camp, we buy local (easy if you dont have a large supermarket) or it comes from the garden etc etc. Thats one of the reasons that we do sea kayaking as opposed to motor racing.

Good point, that's fantastic, I'm glad to hear it!

Sustainability, environmentalism, call it what you want, but its hardly a taboo or ground breaking subject (to me, I can't obviously speak for others).

I'm not saying sustainability, environmentalism whatever you want to call it, is taboo, far from it. I'm saying the fact that the best thing we as humans could do for the environment is go home and do nothing, is taboo. The whole sustainable debate is about how to make what we do more environmentall friendly, but not many people are prepared to voice, or act on, the fact that I just mentioned in the previous sentence.

I hope this isn't coming across as defensive in any way - it's really not. I just like raising the issues! On that note, I wish everyone happy paddling :)

[Twix]

I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but have you considered making your own wooden boat?

[MikeB]

Tom, if you think that what I've said is of any use to you, then I'm pleased to be of some help.

Regs - Mike

[Jim]

Perhaps because he wants your charity, in the English sense rather than the legal....

I think to be safe you are right to drop the word charity Tom, it could be more trouble than it's worth.

Jim

[al27]

Hi Tom

I think my main problem with your site is the absolute hypocrisy of having the words "sustainable" and "expedition" in the heading. Expeditions by their very nature (of flying great distances to carry them out) are not sustainable. (I don't mind the background colour). Its all very well saying that what we do should be done in a more environmentally way, but the hard truth is that we just need to stop doing so much of it (and as you say, just stay home a bit more). You may well go on a trip, burn driftwood, catch fish etc, but then to jump on a plane to the other side of the world (to see friends and family, go paddling, whatever the reason) and be responsible for burning a quatre of a tonne of aviation fuel makes me doubt your (environmental) motives. Its a bit like being a part time vegetarian. Comments like "I think 'sustainable holidays' is a booming industry" also do little to convince me of your (environmental) motives, and the level to which you have actually thought about this.
Glenn Morris' article in OP no.4 I found very interesting, as someone who had witnessed the impacts of our lifestyles and actually thought about the bigger picture, particularly his pledge not to fly after 2008; thoroughly commendable, and an example to us all (if he sticks to it).
Your site I found lacked both depth and substance (environmentally) short of saying "I'm going paddling" in a way that pretty much every paddler I know does, except you're asking me to pay for it. You must mix with a very different type of paddler to me (or perhaps it the choice of who I go paddling with... two sides of the same coin). Still, as you say, its not finished; I look forward to being impressed, because at the moment it just comes across (to me) as yet another example of someone whose jumped on the environmental bandwagon, without really thinking what it means. I also look forward to being proved wrong.

All the best,

Al.

40 years of oil left; 5,500,000,000 years of sunshine left. Choose wisely.

[Mark R]

I think my main problem with your site is the absolute hypocrisy of having the words "sustainable" and "expedition" in the heading.

I think it was right to point out the vague use of the word charity ... but I think that at this point I begin to disagree with those interrogating this fellow, especially the quote above.

One thing I've learned from my (minor) role on the BCU Expeditions Committee is that there are as many definitions and interpretations of the word 'expedition' as there are paddlers. It's one of those concepts that often has a personal significance which is lost or meaningless when explained or applied to others. One paddler's 'expedition' might be another paddler's holiday, or ethical campaign, or package tour, or folly, or personal challenge, or dayjob, or purgatory, or trip to the shops, whatever. This doesn't matter much; expeditions are usually a personal thing.

The guy has an idea in his head for something he wants to take on. It's a challenge to him and it has real meaning and value to him. If others don't get it, the problem is as least as much theirs as his. If he regards what he's doing as 'sustainable', who cares? It's his baby.

Have a great trip - let us know how it goes.

[tomthehaggis]

Hi Al

Thanks for the reply. I’m not going to write a big long winded reply to your post because I don’t think the discussion has gone in as productive a way as it could have done, it's more become into a bit of an argument, which I'm not interested in having. Instead I’d like to just write a few points.

Lots of valid points, but I think kind of what you’ve done, as everyone does in arguments/debate, is pick the bits that are good for you to use. For example, you mention that I said about paddling all over the world, yet you didn’t mention the fact that I said I would ‘take as many forms of transport to get there that weren’t flying’ (I guess that’s a bit what like Glen Morris says isn’t it?). Or for another example, you question “…sustainable holidays’ is a booming industry…”, but if you look at that more deeply than you have, it could be a holiday in Scotland rather than jumbo jet flight to Australia (when I go, it won’t be for a quick 2 week holiday, and I won’t be jumbo jetting). Okay two more points… One: I agree, the website does lack depth and substance - ‘…it’s not finished yet’. I should get some more done on it this weekend. Two: the sustainable vs. expedition contradiction. Again, I agree with you, it is a contradiction. And again, I’m not saying don’t go on expeditions, I’m saying that within the context of the expedition, why not try do what you can.

Lastly, for the UKRGB, from the website, “SusExp isn’t about taking a purist attitude” to environmentalism, it’s about the idea the “if you’re going to do…things, then why not do them with as little environmental impact as practically possible.” I apologise if people feel this is something that has dragged on a bit, or even if it’s something that didn’t need discussion. However, I hope that it has inspired a bit of thinking, and in that case, it has done its job. :)

Happy Paddling! Cheers,

[Jim]

I think you are part way to your goal - you have made people think about sustainability in order to spot potential flaws in your own methods for achieving it.

Clearly paddling to Australia is out of the question if your relatives will still be alive when you arrive, but you could sail using a craft built from sustainable sources. People have been doing that for thousands of years, society just needs reminding about it!

Jim

[Ceegee]

Hi Tom

Interesting!

Sustainable (IMO) - capable of indefinite repetition without external resources. Hunter-gatherer socities are "sustainable" (with the exceptions of hunting mammoths to extinction? etc.). Those that aren't (or any society that isn't, including ours) go extinct. A definition for Tom's purposes would be:

1. To set of at the start and finish at the end having met all (most) of his needs with what was carried aboard.
2. Ending with an equivalent stock of stores and equipment to that which he set out with.
3. Not significantly altering the envioronment on the way.

Clearly on point 2 I'm not advocating setting off with a cargo of tinned tuna and arriving with an equivalent of home caught and smoked mackerel, but you get my drift on the ability to self-sustain (fair wear and tear excepted). Picture yourself in the position of an Inuit hunter on an extended trip. Anything breaks or gets lost on the trip, he has to fix/replace from local materials, and he expects to arrive back with more food/resources than you set out with - the purpose of hunting, plus the seal population must not be decreased below sustainable levels by his actions.

Expedition (IMO) - discovering previously unknown facts whilst traveling to a new region. This doesn't mean that nobody must have preceeded you, but you should be prepared to learn something new, and share the same (even if just about yourself) as a result, and this should be the primary purpose of the trip.

How about combining the two to see if your trip can demonstrate (the expedition) the feasibility of getting from A-B without recourse to external resources or degredation of the environment (the sustainability).

Above all, enjoy the holiday.

Steve

[AllanJ]

I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but have you considered making your own wooden boat?

I built a' stitch-and-tape' plywood boat about ten years ago and I'd question whether it would really be a 'green' choice compare to other constructions;

# plastic (tupperware) boats zero maintenace and, ideally, re-cycled into new boats at end of life.
# composite: low maintenance but only good for land fill at end of life.
# plywood. Uses some hardwood and a fair bit of epoxy to build and a litre or so of very high VOC paint/varnish each year. Long life, but too impregnated with resin etc for the wood to rot down at end of life.

Anyone with a wood framed folding boat?

Allan

[tomthehaggis]

Hi. Sorry for the late reply (Twix), but I wanted to group together replies, rather than replying to everyone individually.

Twix and Allan J
I did consider buying/making a wooden boat, but the kits that I found were a bit out of my price. I've no experience building boats, but after doing a bit of research, I'm inclined to agree with Allan that plastic has good recycling options (DesMes offer a recycling service, and www.Recoup.org (recovery of unused plastic) list all the plastic reprocessing plants in the UK), but the source of it isn't (uh oh, here's that word again) sustainable, whereas wood is in some cases. Not sure about how some methods of construction of plastic boats using 3 different layers would work, but I'm sure it'd be fine for recycling.

It's pointless to try and state anything to be accurate unless it's really been properly looked at though. Something I've been getting into for work is Carbon Footprinting, which in short, defines processes and products in terms of their associated lifetime carbon dioxide emissions. So it could be used to come up with a measurement of each different boat's friendliness!

Jim
Good, I'm glad you think I'm part way there. In that case, I'm satisified. I'd rather things were questioned, than not. Maybe that gets us closer to the truth?

CeeGee
Interesting also! In answer to your post, I'll be doing both to varying degrees, where I can. I will be catching as much as possible, and buying things locally (I will have emergency food also). And according to the IMO definitions you gave - I have surprisingly never managed to get down to Mingulay (!) or ever seen the W coast of Lewis, so am very excited about that!

Just a thought
Just thought of environmental reason for expeditioning...when we're on expeditions, camping trips, whatever you want to call it, we are using a lot less energy (no PC, no fridge, no heaters, no TV, etc). So, no quantitative backing (yet), but I bet if you're away long enough, the reduction in energy consumption will outweigh the energy consumed to travel to the destination.

Cheers

[CaileanMac]

Tom,

Best of luck with your expedition and I look forward to hearing about it via your webpage or blog.

Don't let the 'UKSKGB interrogation squad' put you off...

Regards

CaileanMac

[Cameron]

This discusion reminds me of the film Being There by Peter Sellers.

Tom

Great idea for a trip which I would love to do sometime. Hope you enjoy it.

Whilst I agree that we should look at the sustainability of our lifestyles the fact is that for most of us it simply isn't and never will be. Furthermore what we do is largely irrelevant, on a global scale it is what 1 billion Indians and 1 billion Chinese do that will shape the future of the planet. More people now live in cities and generate 'wealth' to provide 'economic growth' than on the land growing food. The transition to a sustainable economy will never occur in a free market. Carbon Footprinting / Accounting is the first step to Carbon Trading and a Carbon Economy when rationing will come into effect. The rich and the politicians will continue to do what they want, making and breaking the rules, and the rest of us will continue to pick up the bill. What a depressing thought for a wet and windy Sunday afternoon.

Paddling the length of the Western Isles (while we still can !), now that's a much more pleasant idea. Good luck.


Cameron


How did the thesis go ? Disappointed not to meet you on Barra last May when I was paddling with Clearwater.

[al27]

but I think that at this point I begin to disagree with those interrogating this fellow, especially the quote above.

Having thought about it over the weekend, I stand by it.

If he regards what he's doing as 'sustainable', who cares? It's his baby.

I should probably clarify; I have no problem at all with Tom’s trip. I wish him all the best. I think he's doing it in a way that does us all proud, in a way that everyone I know would do it, and in a way that I assume everyone here would do it (I guess there isn't some anarchic underground movement amongst us that orders their expedition food from Bolivia and desecrates beauty spots on their trips). I’m struggling to see why this is worthy of sponsorship, but hey, if he blags a free boat, good on him. My problem is with this pseudo/commercial environmentalism, whereby putting the words “sustainable” “environment” “bio” etc. with a normal every day activity somehow seeks to portray it as sustainable or somehow good for the planet when it actually does no such thing. I think at this point we should all care, not so much for ourselves, but for the future generations who are going to inherit this mess. If people choose to go to the ends of the earth for an expedition, then that’s their choice, but lets at least be honest and admit that its nothing but bad for the planet. I fully get what you’re trying to do Tom, but it’s a bit like saying “I’m going to kill you, but I’m going to do it nicely”; at the end of the day there’s still a dead body. As opposed to encouraging people to make a negligible difference to their trip, why not try to encourage them to do something else with a significant difference. As for taking other forms of transport to flying; I think you’re missing the point. Boats, cars, coaches, trains, all at the moment use oil.
It gets back to what Steve was saying regarding the changing aims of expeditions, and its just as easy to find yourself, fulfil yourself etc. just round the corner as opposed to the other side of the world.

Furthermore what we do is largely irrelevant

It is if that’s what you believe. I don't disagree with you in that I think one person can't make a difference, but shouldn't we do our bit? I defy everyone not to be able, within the next 10 minutes, to do something to use less electric or oil, outside what you normally would. Turn a tele off standby, turn off someone else’s office light, go on one less trip (ok not in the next 10 minutes, but this year). Every crappy plastic Chinese toy we don't buy, hasn't had to be shipped thousands of miles, and used precious resources. It may make no difference, but it also might make you fell less depressed!!

As for bio diesel being carbon neutral… don’t get me started on that one…

Al.

[Cameron]

Al

I think you are right to challenge hypocrisy wherever you see it.

its just as easy to find yourself, fulfil yourself etc. just round the corner as opposed to the other side of the world.

Absolutely

shouldn't we do our bit?

Yes, because it is the right thing to do, but lets be realistic about the scale of the problem and effect we can have.

And don't get me started on hydrogen !

Cameron

[Mark R]

When all of those offering 'constructive' opinions here get around to accomplishing their own personal dream, I do hope that they'll be posting their plans up for scrutiny.

[al27]

I realised my dream this morning (as I do many mornings). I paddled round the Trompeloup tower as the sun came up. Strangly, I didn't feel the need to launch a website about it and ask for comments, but if you want to scrutinise it Mark, then knock yourself out.

Al.