french alps summer 2008

[Mark Allen]

I planning a trip for six grade 4+ paddler mates going to the french alps, what is the best/upto date guide book and what time of summer is going to be best? we are going to drive out there which is the best cross channel ferry crossing, we will all be heading fron the south west? any info please. thanks

[Stuart J Woodward]

The best UK guidebook still is Pete Knowles (Slime) "White Water South Alps". Nearly all kayak shops have them.

However many people like the French, "Alp-Dauphine" by Stephane Roux-Lionel Fine and Jerome Guerry the distributors are www.canotier.com

There has all ready been a lot of snow in the South French Alps. Big water late may early June can close off lots of runs. I would go for second week in June when the top end of melt has dropped a little and nearly all the runs are on. Also if this is your first Alps trip, you will need to be care full if you are just route finding out of a guide book.

I have tried every route possible to the French Alps from the UK. Most people in the Uk will go for Dover-Calais. But it is a long way to Dover from say Exeter when we have other channel ports close by.
Problem it’s a 6 hr crossing by normal ferry from Portsmouth 1 1/2 from Dover. Speed ferry can take 4 hrs from Portsmouth, 1 hr Dover.
But it’s around a 5 hr drive to Dover (from Exeter 2 hr to Portsmouth) on expensive UK fuel. It’s also about 60-70 miles further from Calais to the Alps rather than Caen or La-Havre.
However big advantage at Calais Auto Route all the way to Grenoble. These are fast roads around 10 hrs to Briancon. Friend of mine did it in a Fiat Pinot Farino to the Rab campsite in 71/2 hrs. Disadvantage more fuel more tolls (60 Euros each way), but cheaper ferry crossings.

Portsmouth route takes longer but you spend less on fuel and tolls. But you need better road navigation skills with some N roads to route find on. Big disadvantage ferries are more expensive, no cheap early morning crossings. But the total time difference from Exeter is not huge. It’s around 3 1/2. Big advantage from Portsmouth is you rest on the boat meal and beer, have a sleep and are fresher for the long drive.

Total travelling time Exeter to Briancon via Portsmouth is around 22 hrs. This route saves on fuel and tolls (tolls 30 Euros) but loose out on pricy ferries. Total travelling time Exeter to Briancon via Dover is around 18.5 hrs. This route is more expensive on fuel and tolls (tolls 60 Euros) but cheaper ferries and quicker.

Just get the calculator out. Don’t forget French petrol is not that much cheaper than the UK, but diesel is about 80 p per litre.

Best of luck with your trip.

Stuart.

[Mark Allen]

hi stuart,

we went to the alps back in "97"!!! a long time ago now, still got quite good memorys of most of the rivers, (I think!!!) I know rivers change but has any of the rivers changed alot in comparison? apart from the gyr.

thanks

[Stuart J Woodward]

Unlike UK Rivers, the rivers in Mountainous areas change all the time. In the South French Alps you will find a number of changes some for the good some not.

The main changes I have listed below.

Guil. The main changes here happened in 2000. I huge flood caused massif damage and resulted in the letter Box rapid being blown up. Leaving a 2 meter rocky drop

For a few years the whole river was a mess with eddies filled with gravel lots of tree problems and a Piste Basher (removed in 2002) jammed in the Chateau Queyras Gorge.

However over the years it has cleaned its self out, to regain its reputation as one of the best white water river in Europe. There are changes to the overall river but its grading and general structure is the same. The section from the Tunnel rapid (once the letter box) to the lake is still a joy.

The one negative is the Chateau Gorge, once get it wrong you were just flushed out. But know on high early season flows there is a nasty stopper just after the squeeze. Because of its location this feature could kill someone. At the exit there is know a steep drop that you have to run, trees or no trees? L' Ange Gardien is still about the same except the last main rapid, after 2000 the siphon problem here was reduced making the rapid much more fun.

Gyr. Always changing.

Onde. Big landslide on the Onde early season last year filled in the rapid just after the campsite bridge, by the normal put in. The river was a mess all season despite local guides trying to clean it up. Hopefully if we get a good spring melt it will help to sort itself out.

Romanche. The grade 5 rapid after the tennis courts at La grave is still a mess after a flood a few years ago no real line and nasty bits of metal became exposed. The rest to the barrage is about the same.

The Ubaye. The Race course is the same but there have been quite significant changes in the main Gorge and La Fresquieres. In the gorge the Lions Den is somewhat easier but the next two three drops have become harder and steeper. The rapid La Fresquieres late season 2003 had a big flood. The rapid above the bridge at the put became a lake. For a couple of seasons it was a horrible steep gravel descent very shallow, not nice. However it has cleaned its self out and is returning to it former self. The rapid close to the road on this section did not change that much.

No news of major changes around the Drac area. The last time we were here was in 2005. The last few years have not been there because of low water.

There are of course lots of changes taking place all the time. Like the Stair Case rapid on the Guil, one day a few years ago it changed course three time

All the best with your trip don't forget we have the best kayaker's campsite in the area. Drop in for a beer

If I can help please e-mail me.

All the best.

Stuart.

[Mark Allen]

thank you. very good clear advice.

we are going to stay at the a l argentiere la bessee because its central. but when we do the romanche or the rivers up your way we will pop in.

we are proberly going to go on the 21/06/2008 for 10 days maybe 14 days.

what do you think are the must paddle sections of the region?

[Stuart J Woodward]

There are many better campsites in the area than L'Agenteire. Just depends what you are looking for.

Negative's
Many paddles get dumped out in the shade less wind blown, hot dry and dusty area. Has a repatation for gear going missing. Very crowded and stuck between the road and railway.
Early season high percentage ratio campers to loo's.

If you can get an emplacement to the front under the trees not so bad. But nosy from traffic, not very alpine.

Later in the season gets plagued by young unpleasent, inner city youth groups.

Positives.
It's better than the Rabioux campsite.
Close to the slalom course.
Also does serve a great purpose for nosy groups who want to party all night.

I am not on the Romanche we are just 10mins away in the Gyronde Vallee.

All the best.

Stuart.

[Myles]

what do you think are the must paddle sections of the region?

Stuart mentioned most of the best sections in his previous post, describing the changes to the rivers.

With 10 days you will be able to cover most rivers. I would add the following:

Lower Guisane
Veneon (good on the way home)
Bonne (not that hard but just a different type of Alpine river)
Fornel (drops up above L'Argentiere. Good for photos)

[Tom_Laws]

L'argentiere La Besse will be hosting the most amazing couple of days of frivolity in June 08...

Friday 13th June - SlopeJam on the Fournel

Saturday 14th - Demo day, drop in coaching clincs, Student Boater X, and of course a sweeeet party.

Details to be announced in the new year....

[Mark Allen]

has anyone got any details and or photos of the fornel?

[Myles]

A few photos here
The last one on page 1 and the first few on page 2 are the Fournel. Pretty low water levels there though.

[Mark Allen]

nice 1.

does anyone now any good minibus hire companys in or around exeter?

[Bod]

Rentex Exmouth are your best best for minibuses

[Stuart J Woodward]

me and another of our pary member walked up the fornel looked good for some boofing action appart from the lack of water, would be amazing if it was caught right.

but if its your first time as mine was last summer its alot faster than anything I've paddled in england/wales

found that my paddling improved rapidly after as well.

The artificial drops on the Fournel are great for a structured introduction to running drops.

However in the early season this river can carry a huge amount of melt water. The vallee is very prone to winter/spring avalanches, this leaves lots of deep snow at a low elevation that melts off very fast. Its also very prone to flash flooding due to the vallee digging itself way back into the Massif Ecrin.

Alpine boating is all the better with warm/hot bank side temps.

Stuart

[Matt R]

Some more fournel pics for you. A great run and close / quick enough to do in an evening from argentiere.

[Stuart J Woodward]

Loads of snow in the South French Alps and further south in Haute Provence.

There has also been significant falls of snow in Corsica.

What a turn around from last year.

Tempetures in Nice is around minus 2c

Heavy snow cold tempretures mean a solid thick icy base is being put down. So at the moment looking for the summer.

Stuart.

[Mark Allen]

will most rivers still be runable in mid july?

[Andy H]

I was over there first week in July and most rivers was just going, however with the Snowfall at the moment its looking good for all summer 2008 enjoy

[Stuart J Woodward]

will most rivers still be runable in mid july?

It really is to early to make any valued predictions.There are just to many varibles related to snow fall and day and night time tempretures.

However if it keeps snowing as it is and tempretures stay low as they are, we can expect very big levels late May early June. This inturn should keep river levels up well into July. If we do have high levels, paddlers (out in early June) who have only the last 5 years low water conditions to base their experience on, need to consider carefully where they paddle.

On super high flows many of these rivers will bare no resemblence to what many UK paddlers over the last 5 years have seen.

However If the snow keeps coming what could be running in mid July.

Upper Guil, Middle Guil, Lower Guil. All the Ubaye, The Guisane, The Gryonde, The Gyr, The Onde?, The Claree? All the Durance except the Gorge? The Seveassie, The Drac, The Bonne, The Upper/Lower Romanche, The Veneon. The Biasse.

Many of the very higher sections of rivers will be losing water. The rivers further south in Haute Provence like the Var and Verdon Versubie should be very good in April.

Looking forward to another summer in the sun.

Stuart.

[JohnAllan]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good campsite for going to the French Alps with family groups with children (12 & 14yrs). We are looking to be able to paddle with them for one session most days, then be able to leave the kids to entertain themselves in the campsite/lake/swimming pool, or book them into outdoor activities such Ver Ferrata/Climbing or rafting etc. We'll padlle 4-5's whilst they do that.

I've seen the large campsite on the lake shore in Embrun - Does anyone have any experience of this one? - Is the lake warm enough for swimming?

Any other places that would be suitable, we prefer quiet nights - Something like the Campsite in Prutz, Austria would be perfect, but we felt France might have more interesting lower grade paddling and is a shorter drive from Devon.

We would be going end of July beginning of August - Other paddling families based around the SW of England (ideally) would be welcome to join us if we can work out a suitable location.

Childrens paddling ability ranges from around Grade 1-2 & Grade 3. I've paddled out there twice at Whitsun (End of May), around 10 or so years ago myself but did Grade 4-5+'s. I seem to recall there being plenty of easier low grade paddles though.

[Will K]

Hi There,

Ive been living and working in the French Alps for 6 years for the summer seasons and there are alot of great campsites in the area with alot of great rivers near by.

Basically at the bottom of the valley you have a very touristy area, Embrum. Which has a massive campsite with a lovely but busy town and very warm lake etc.

But if you want to experience the real Alps you need to head up the valley and aim for L'Argentiere Le Bessee where there are more campsites to choose from and smaller but less crowded lakes.

But stay away from the main campsite there as it is a popular area for UK uni groups and there is no shade and always really busy.

However, there is a great campsite at Canoe Control which is ideal for family's. There is a real sense of remotness as it is very quiet but a short walk though the woods and you reach the bar, pool and resturant.

Its a kayak guiding school so the staff there are always keen to give you advice on rivers in the area or even provide trips.

If you need any more info have alook at www.canoecontrol.com

Cheers Will

[BEEM]

Hi,
I went out with my young family, I couldnt get onto the main campsite by the lake, too busy. I stayed at one, La Veille Ferme which was good, their website is listed on the embrun tourist office.Which was about 10 mins walk from the lake and about 5mins walk from the embrun playwave.

[conoroneill]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good campsite for going to the French Alps with family groups with children (12 & 14yrs). We are looking to be able to paddle with them for one session most days, then be able to leave the kids to entertain themselves in the campsite/lake/swimming pool, or book them into outdoor activities such Ver Ferrata/Climbing or rafting etc. We'll padlle 4-5's whilst they do that.

This is a quiet and shady campsite which we have used often, though it doesn't have a pool or lake. It is at St Crepin, about half way between Briancon and Embrun. http://www.campingcabane.com/accueil.htm

[Beanz the Boater]

Canoe contol was a decent campsite< other ones I have use are the one near the put in for the sunshine run on durance. St clement.
very family orientated, got a pool etc.
Also have stopped at Guillestre there are a few there> close to Guil or durance.

What about an apartment.
Have stopped a couple of times at hotel la guisanne> on the take out for lower guisanne> make late afternoon runs sweet, drop off at put in paddle to take out>

[JohnAllan]

Sunshine run on the Durance?
Can you explain where this campsite is. Having a pool would be really good for the children. Also does anyone have any photos of the Canoe control campsite as that sounds a possibility.

Cheers

John

[Mark Allen]

does any one have details of the steep creeks and drops around the area?
names, levels, photos, etc all info please.

[Will K]

Contact Stuart Woodwood the owner of Canoe Control he knows the area very very well and can give you some great info.

Or better still stay at his camp-site when you visit the Alps so you can use his knowledge when needed. That what alot of people do.

You can't beat local knowledge

Cheers

[wiggles]

dont forget to stop off in Lyon on way down or way up for some fun on hawaii sur rhone. You will probably want play boats for this though!

[cathalferris]

Another underrated and under-used campsite in the region is the one behind the train station in Mount Dauphin. Large lake for the kids with lots of activities, a grade 2 section of the durance behind the campsite. This campsite is just upstream of the confluence of the Durance and Guil so you can get a quick look at the Guil gauge 1 min drive from the campsite. I've stayed there for the past few years in the quiet season from the end of May through the 3rd week in June.

It's on google maps as the area north of the lake and east of the Durance, at Mont-Dauphin-Gare on the road between Embrun and Briancon, near Guillestre

I don't have contact details for the campsite but I can probably find them with a bit of searching.

As for the rivers having changed, most of the main pointers have been covered above.
The Gyronde eddies are slowly clearing out the gravel that made things less than pleasant in the early years of this decade.
Last year there were works being done in the bed of the lake of the slide before the Briancon Gorge, and the dam was lifted and there was no lake.
The drop at the end of the Queyras Gorge is non-trivial at the levels that we saw it at over the past 2 years, and is nigh-on impossible to scout or protect. This makes the whole run that bit riskier, and you cannot really afford to swim.
When we were there last year (1st/2nd weeks in june) the lake at Maison du Roy on the guil was being emptied. That was an interesting sight, watching walls of black concrete-like water going through the Guil Gorge and having more flow than the Durance near the campsite. The lake was emptied a few time over the weeks to clear the silt out.

Try and get a drop or 2 done on the Biayaisse near its headwaters at the base of the waterfalls in the valley above Freissinieres, across from La Roche Du Rame. The river is a solid 5/6, but there are a few drops that look doable. This area is the front cover of Haut-Alpes - Ubaye guidebook that was printed locally there in the past few years )
That's about it from my memories from previous years

[jadedkayaker]

Never mind Hawaii sur Rhone, I would say by the sound of your group that the artificial course at St Pierre du Boeuf, south of Lyon, would be a good stop off (on the southern route via Gap). This is on the Rhone, with warm water, easy rapids (on a par with Nottingham) and a campsite.

Also, when we stayed at the lakeshore campsite south of Embrun (which was very busy), the lake was freezing and it has a layer of thick grey mud on the bottom - this was in July/ August. Traffic was an issue too, as was the heat.

Other activities to keep the troops amused included Bivvying out and hiking up a mountain (eg Glacier Blanc & Pic de Morgon), cycling (in the high valleys and forests - drive up, ride around and then let them cycle down) and Canyoning (eg at St Clement - although beware of summer storms: we did it in 1999 on the day that all the French papers carried news of a major tragedy in Switzerland).

Not sure where Stuart's campsite is, but there is a good one up in the Biayaisse valley near Freissinieres- high up so nice and cool, next to an easy bit of the river and complete with pool etc.

Hope this helps.

[Will K]

Stuarts campsite Canoe Control is 2min from L'Argentiere heading towards Valouise.

Its on the banks of the Gyronde making it a ideal place for a late run in the evenings.

It's his very own private section on a huge campsite for UK paddlers to come camp.

It is a super nice place to stay and super cheap and better still having wifi on site.

Cheers