Which VHF?^

[Zoe Newsam]

It turns out that my VHF (Silva S12, 3 years old) is unreliable, and so I'm looking into replacing it. What do you all use/ recommend?

I've got half an eye on the Icom IC-M71 at the moment...

[Mark R]

Mine is somewhat unreliable, seemingly losing charge if left alone for a couple of weeks.

I will be upgrading next year also.

[Zoe Newsam]

Isn't yours the same/ similar to mine, Mark?

[Mark R]

Same model.

[Dave Thomas]

My ICOM M-31 loses charge over a period of time - but someone (Chris Bolton?) pointed out in an earlier thread on such matters that this is because there is a constant small power drain if the battery is left in the unit. I just recharge it as a matter of course before a trip out.

M-31 seems to be OK - and later ones would be better still as they now have a NiMH rather than a NiCd battery. However, the M1-Euro V (??) came down in price to be not much more expensive than the M-31 shortly after I bought mine. Is it still available? It seems (or seemed) to be regarded as the 'industry standard'.

[Zoe Newsam]

What I'm particularly interested in is the overall length of the unit. It must be small enough to fit in my BA pocket- which I think the Icom M71 is.

How important is Power, for our purposes? Ie 2W versus 6W?

[savegemountains]

I've got an IC M71 thingy and it has been excellent so far. Relatively small, easy to hold/handle (fits fine in the front pocket of an old peak sea zip BA without getting in the way), easy to use, excellent range and good battery life. Seems like a winner so far.

[Dave Thomas]

How important is Power, for our purposes? Ie 2W versus 6W?

I think every little extra which you can get in an acceptable-size unit is probably worthwhile. There are several places in N Pembrokeshire where, surprisingly, mine will raise the coastguard when on land and 5-10m above sea level but not when afloat 200m away.

Having said that, I thought virtually all hand-helds were 5w at least (with a 1-2W low-power setting).

Dave Thomas

[wave skier]

Standard horizon about £90 is definately worth a look.
harry.

[Yakingmad]

How important is Power, for our purposes? Ie 2W versus 6W?

Zoe 6w will carry further than 2w but more important is the aerial, the better quality the further the signal will travel also the hight of the arial ASL makes a huge differance, if you could fit a marine antennae to your boat the differance would be quite noticeable above the standard helical aerial of a handheld transmitter.

Transmission distance at sea is basically the horizon (21 miles'ish) ASL depending on the power output of the transmitter, by rising the hight of the antennae it extends the range, also a helical aerial on a handheld is not the most efficient as there is no gain to the aerial, in fact they tend to be about -3db down so a 2w transmitter will actually only be putting out 1w ERP so half what you started off with, this also acts in reverse as to the signal strength of a received signal.

You can get a small folding marine antennae for about £60.00 which has 3db gain so infact doubles the receive/transmit range of the radio and it can be connected direct to your handheld by a simple twist lock connector so you have a double option.

Batteries of the rechargeable type always have a slow discharge property and it is quite normal for them to discharge when not in use, I would suggest that the cheapist option is to replace the battery pack rather than the radio if it works OK otherwise. The best thing to do is completely discharge the battery simply by leaving it swithed on untill it goes flat and then recharge it and see how long it lasts on standby, do this a few times and it may stay charged longer, if not buy a new battery.

[cswalker]

I have a Raymarine 101 handheld waterproof VHF. Has been excellant. I have also just got the new McMurdo DSC / GMDSS handheld set which is excellant for emergancies.

A note on the batteries, I can't remember which is which but some have batteries that almost have a memory and must be de-charged fully before re-charging otherwise they only half charge and do all sorts of weird things.

I am not sure whether the new McMurdo sets will be availible to civilians in the UK but is what the RNLI, MOD, Spec Forces across the world are starting to use. They will also require the registration for an MMSI number and whether that is possible for a sea kayak I don't know. I did email the MCA to enquire.

Look up DSC / GMDSS on the Wikipedia if you want clarifacation why that may be useful, I certainly think so.

[CaileanMac]

Zoe,

I've got a Icom M71 and would second Savagemountains recommendation. Solid, quality and reliable piece of kit which fits neatly in a Peak Sea Zip buoyancy aid (new style). Having a 6 watt output was the final selling point for me - the more wattage the greater the transmitting distance which on West Coast of Scotland is critical for me.

The Icom M1 Euro radio is standard issue to Coastguard Rescue Teams around the country. We regularly use (abuse) our radios during rescues and searches and they are mega dependable. The battery life is great as well - one battery lasted me over 20 callouts over the summer without a charge. Haste to add I've always got a spare battery on my person as well! The battery type you want is lithum ion - they don't suffer from developing a 'memory' and seem to hold their charge for a very long time. Also with lithum ion battery you can just plug it in for quick charge before a weekend away - i.e. doesn't develop a memory which is really handy rather than having to completely drain battery before charging up. Rumour has it one day the Coastguard Rescue Service will change to M71's radio's when we finally knacker the M1 Euro's and budgets allow.

Icom = Volkswagen or Rolls Royce standard of VHF marine radios in my opinion.

CaileanMac

[CaileanMac]

Photo's showing the size of a Icom M71 are here and here. Blog entry here.

CaileanMac

[MarkB]

Replace %20 with a space in CaileanMac's post for the URL's to work.

[Zoe Newsam]

Transmission distance at sea is basically the horizon (21 miles'ish) ASL depending on the power output of the transmitter

On a calm day, yes it is. However if I need my radio it is more likely to be in a big sea, where the 'line of sight' doesn't necessarily cross the tops of the waves. My question is, really, does more power help get around this problem?

You can get a small folding marine antennae... and it can be connected direct to your handheld by a simple twist lock connector so you have a double option.

Ever tried connecting that whilst bouncing around in a tide race with a swimmer clamped on the back of your boat, where you can barely take one hand off the paddle, let alone two? A flare would be my second option, not a fiddly gadget-thing.

Batteries of the rechargeable type always have a slow discharge property and it is quite normal for them to discharge when not in use, I would suggest that the cheapist option is to replace the battery pack rather than the radio if it works OK otherwise.

I'm not sure whether the battery is the problem on mine. I've had a few occasions where I've transmitted and then heard the reply on someone else's radio, but not mine; I've heard the weather broadcast on someone else's but not mine; and I've transmitted to the Coastguard and not been heard, but when someone else tried, they were. It has had an active life and probably ingested a fair amount of salt water, as I keep it in an Ortlieb VHF bag which lets in a tiny bit of water. I think it may just be in need of retirement...

I've got a Icom M71 and would second Savagemountains recommendation. Solid, quality and reliable piece of kit which fits neatly in a Peak Sea Zip buoyancy aid (new style). Having a 6 watt output was the final selling point for me - the more wattage the greater the transmitting distance which on West Coast of Scotland is critical for me.

The M71 measurements seem to fit in my BA (River ba with a big pocket), and it's certainly the only 6W handheld I've seen.

Thanks for the info folks- keep it coming.

[savegemountains]

Zoe, admittedly it was not in a big sea at all, but I have had a range of about 19/20 miles with the M71, so I owuld say the 6W makes a difference (compared to a previous icom handheld vhf which was not as good). I agree with your line on useability (is there such a word??) keep it simple with a decent handheld rather than lots of gadgets. Having said this I have seen some people using a small mike extension clipped to the BA which could be useful if it really is hitting the fan.

In terms of the salt water etc, the advice I got back from icom was to not use a bag of any kind, but simply to rinse the unit in fresh water after every trip. Its been ok so far.

[Zoe Newsam]

In terms of the salt water etc, the advice I got back from icom was to not use a bag of any kind, but simply to rinse the unit in fresh water after every trip. Its been ok so far.

Wow- that's good to know. Did they give you any other handy hints?

[Dave Thomas]

The M-71 does look a good bet - clearly it's the update of the M-1 Euro V - and still a very competitive price.

I liked the absence of rotary controls on the M-31 etc - easier to operate in a drybag - but I think it is probably this feature (ie electronic rather than mechanical on-off switch) which leads to the constant small current drain - in addition to the inherent loss of charge over time with rechargeable batteries.

The order of choice (and of cost!) for batteries is Li-ion followed by NiMH followed by NiCd. Replacing a battery is rarely worthwhile, as with mobile phones - they are priced at a significant proportion of the cost of a new set. I did investigate getting a NiMH for my M-31 and it would have cost around 50% of the current price of that set with NiMH..

[savegemountains]

That's all I asked of them. Here was their full reply, interesting on the warranty:

The IC-M71 is waterproof to a new higher standard of IPX8, 1.5m for 30 mins.
All other waterproof radio's on the market are the IPX7 rating, 1m for 30mins.

We recommend with all of our radio's that after use you flush the radio with fresh water.
This can either be under a running tap or in a bucket of fresh water.

Our units come with a 3 year warranty, this covers water ingress though normal use.
So should your unit let water in within the first 3 years and it has not been abused or neglected we will replace it.

[markpawley]

Hi Zoe,

I've been very happy with my icom IC-M31. An AA battery pack is available as an extra and with six NiMH rechargeables it lasts half as long again as the standard pack. ( My AAs are 1800mAh, the standard pack 1150 mAh) so this is a good option for a long trip.

Take care not to leave the radio sitting in a pool of water in your tent as the contacts on the standard pack corrode away very quickly (overnight on Jura this summer).

Mark

[ChrisS]

Perhaps an EPIRB /PLB would make a more reliable first-line option for sending a distress alert in difficult conditions? It sends a signal to a satellite which alerts the Coastguard and tells them your position. It also emits a homing signal which lifeboats and helicopters can use to find you.
If considering one make sure it has 406Hz and on-board GPS like this or this. They seem to be coming down in price but are still 4 times the price of a VHF radio.

[Owen]

Perhaps an EPIRB /PLB would make a more reliable first-line option for sending a distress alert in difficult conditions? It sends a signal to a satellite which alerts the Coastguard and tells them your position. It also emits a homing signal which lifeboats and helicopters can use to find you.
If considering one make sure it has 406Hz and on-board GPS like this or this. They seem to be coming down in price but are still 4 times the price of a VHF radio.

I asked the coastguards about theses at the Perth show and was told that PLB's are being phazed out. EPIRB's are great for offshore but thay could miss the satellite on first pass so you may have to wait for it to come back. Also there's a degree of inaccuracy in them but I can't remember what the figures were; so there not worth the cost unless your doing something very adventurous.
With VHF you can speak to the coastguard and tell them what's wrong; and they can still DF your VHF set.

[Bertie..]

Zoe, I use the M71 Icom radio, though as with anything rechargable I worry about battery life. I chose Icoms after seeing how well they stood up to abuse in the hands of beach lifeguards.

I currently in the process of replacing the battery in my laptop as it has died, and it seems common practice to replace laptop batteries periodically. This makes me think that I shall be looking to replace the battery in my VHF soon as it's a few years old.

I tend always to carry the cradle which allows me to use a set of standard batteries, and a fresh set as backup, when I paddle just in case, though in the conditions you describe I woulnd't want to be swapping the batteries over.

As for not keeping it in a bag, I'd agree that it's better to not and to rinse it out after use. I keep mine in BA pocket when I'm paddling.

I have had one leak once, when it got caught between two kayaks in rough water whilst performing a rescue. Unfortunately, it was crushed breaking the hard plastic shell rendering it useless. Icom were very quick to replace it with no questions asked.

[Zoe Newsam]

I have had one leak once, when it got caught between two kayaks in rough water whilst performing a rescue. Unfortunately, it was crushed breaking the hard plastic shell rendering it useless. Icom were very quick to replace it with no questions asked.

Wow, that's superb customer service. I think I'm sold on an Icom...

[ChrisS]

I asked the coastguards about theses at the Perth show and was told that PLB's are being phazed out. EPIRB's are great for offshore but thay could miss the satellite on first pass so you may have to wait for it to come back. Also there's a degree of inaccuracy in them but I can't remember what the figures were; so there not worth the cost unless your doing something very adventurous.

They must have been talking about the obsolete 121.5 MHz only sytem which is indeed being phased out and has the disadvantages described.

I was talking specifically about the current 406MHz system and units equipped with built-in GPS. Alert is within 5 minutes and the GPS provides an accurate position fix. The MCA maintains an EPIRB registry so if you set one off the coastguard will also know exactly who you are.

The difference is explained in detail here.

[allatsea]

From past experience you may find oceansafety.com a cheap supplier of ICOM products and EPIRBs if your after one

[Bertie..]

Wow, that's superb customer service.

I was certainly impressed. For me, this type of customer service speaks volumes about the quality of the product also.

[Yellerbelly]

After a trawl using Google found a good price here. £170
Just placed an order. Apparently delivery tomorrow !
(Not just a copy cat. Was looking at these last week and was listening into the little Anglesey incident through one off RAF Valley as the helicopter took off)

. .. . . Ben

[stripper]

Hello Zoe
I got myself an IC- M71 when I needed a replacement. It fits nicely in my bouyancy aid pocket upright. I thought I'd spend the extra pennies on a quality piece of kit as I sold it to myself that it needs to work when ultimately required. I don't use it in a bag , and it's open to dunkings. If its as good as its says on the tin it 'shouldn't' need to. I do rinse it after every trip as recommended. It has slightly clouded inside the screen once but icom assured me this was down to a drop in temperature and if it happened again (which it hasn't) to lightly smear vas on the screen. I bought it from my local supplier who was advertising it at the retail price. I explained I'd much rather buy from him locally rather a faceless online company and he was sort of happy to match the price. A friend had a m-31 replaced by Icom 3 times with no problem which I felt reassuring,not the fact the radio played up but Icom's attitude to stand behind their product. On a slightly different note,finally you can now apply for the new lifetime licences free from Ofcom via the radio licensing centre(see almanac).
Cheers
Clive

[BoaterJH]

Ive got the Icom M1 works good for me. Nice and waterproof.