Alps - Student Boatercross?

[Steve B]

Unfortunately, glentheturtle, it is FAR too irritating. Funny for a few seconds then - no thanks. Am I the only one who thinks these things are the equivalent of standing in the middle of a pub with a megaphone and a hose to get attention?

I am sure you will want to replace it with a static one...

[Slime]

Great idea!

I shall be around the Durance from 14th to the 19th and would be happy to help and donate a few books as prizes. A few of us organised a student rodeo on the Rabious about 6 years ago. I am not sure that organised is the right word as it only needed a few crates of wine, some cardboard and some marker pens. I dont think anyone will remember any details apart from the party and the hangover!

If we had a Rodeo on the Friday night, the 16th, I am sure that the local paddlers would be very co-operative. Guess we could have classes for 'Old School', Duckies and sundry inflatables - any other suggestions? We could import the Crocodile wrestling event from the Nepal Rodeo?

Keep the ideas coming...

Slime

[David McCraw]

Okay, it's going to be super hard to organise once we're out there, so let's set some provisional details: the Rab campsite on the Friday 16th.

The entry fee - a minimum amount of booze per head (for the afterparty!)

The prize - a year of bragging rights. (Can we think of a good title for the event? National Student Alpine Championships? I like it purely because it's so pretentious, but there must be something better?)

Can we agree on a final programme? Upper - Lower Guisane tag-team in the afternoon, drive down to the Rab for the rodeo in the early evening then party? (Stumpies at Shelob's and the big weir to make the portages mandatory and equalise the sane and insane amongst us?)

We could leaflet the campsites to get everyone on the same level, if we can agree in principle now.

D.

[RichA]

Upper/Lower Guisane is definately a good idea. Where would the change over be? A mandatory portage of the big weir seems a good idea. Isn't Shelobs ok? We ran it last summer, but it was quite low...

Friday 16th seems ok, but a bit soon for some uni groups that have only just got there...

A joke rodeo at Rab to finish it off seems great, and maybe a floodlight rodeo later on for those of us that can actually play!

Are the water levels ok, or are they likely to be silly high? Any backup options if the Guisane isn't suitable?

How would the teams work for the tag teams? A certain number of people in each team, maybe with a more experienced paddler or two for the Upper Guisane if needed?
Winning uni is the first team to reach the getout and down a stubby each?

[David McCraw]

That Friday is probably the best compromise, everyone going out early (see list at start) will have gone afterwards...

It will depend on levels I guess - if it's low maybe shelob is fine (anyone?) - I don't really remember.

How we ran the tag would depend on numbers - I reckon two different groups would be best with a total swap over (i.e. one on one off)...

[zezayer]

Shelob has alway been fine when we have run it, but it was quite low. I think they were widening the bridge over it last year so it could be different.

Sheffield will be there hoping to add this to the NSR :D

[Will]

Shelobs is usually ok, have done it at quite high levels, just got to watch out for the 'sticky up thing' (technical language at this time of night...)

Guisane tag-team sounds good, just need to finalise a decent get-in/get-out seeing as there is potentially quite a lot of you. You could get in at the Villeneuve bridge (where there is a small wave and a big eddy) but you miss S-bend which has the most potential on the upper section for a spot of carnage.

For the finish, why not make it the first team into the Rosbif pub (on river left, at the bottom of the ski lift, just below the usual take out) and down a pint/shot/whatever. Good place to get the after party started too!

Looking forward to hearing about this (work and family means I won't be out there this summer).

[David McCraw]

Going to be good...

Just so long as everyone realises that things won't be 'organised' like LL, for example no safety cover and so on. I guess we could say group leaders are responsible for the decision to take their people on the water (i.e. just like a normal river trip?) and it will only be underground 'coincidence' that others are there at the same time...

Rendezvous a la Camping Rabioux at noon on the 16th? Drive up to the Guisane first (bring boats), then back for the rodeo (bring lilos) before getting down to the party (bring booze, and ladies ;-)

Sweeet!

[Tom_Laws]

Rendezvous a la Camping Rabioux at noon on the 16th? Drive up to the Guisane first (bring boats), then back for the rodeo (bring lilos) before getting down to the party (bring booze, and ladies ;-)

Sounds like a plan to me....

Tom

[tomcrow99]

Man I'm jealous...

[pwilkinson]

Rendezvous a la Camping Rabioux at noon on the 16th? Drive up to the Guisane first (bring boats), then back for the rodeo (bring lilos) before getting down to the party (bring booze, and ladies ;-)

Sounds like a plan to me....

Tom

Definately.

[SheffieldLee]

There's no reason we can't have a bit of safety cover at the likely carnage spots. Why don't we set a limit of 3 paddlers per uni for each section, so 6 in total. That way the rest can be put at S-bend, Shelobs, etc with lines and beers! Maybe the upper section could have a fourth boater with some experience to guide the lower ability peops who doesn't count in the race, but is just there to chase boat if need be. This whole thing could go very wrong if it jsut turns into a free for all! I'd happily have a line as long as payment in beer was made!

[Tom_Laws]

Winner.

I will come up with a poster idea this afternoon on the train!

Tom

[Tom_Laws]

There's no reason we can't have a bit of safety cover at the likely carnage spots. Why don't we set a limit of 3 paddlers per uni for each section, so 6 in total. That way the rest can be put at S-bend, Shelobs, etc with lines and beers! Maybe the upper section could have a fourth boater with some experience to guide the lower ability peops who doesn't count in the race, but is just there to chase boat if need be. This whole thing could go very wrong if it jsut turns into a free for all! I'd happily have a line as long as payment in beer was made!

Again. Good idea.

So, We've got a venue, a time and a date, and a rough idea.

Good stuff, who says students are dissorganised!

Tom

[RichA]

Definately a more experienced paddler or two with the relative beginners on the top section if necessary. If nothing else, they can poke them to make them paddle faster!

Probably easiest to say that each uni is responsible for the safety of it's own paddlers, but have some organised safety at key points.

Can anyone volunteer to organise getting the 'event' filmed?

How many uni groups are we expecting? 10 or so? Limiting teams to about 3 on each section would probably be a good idea then.

I can see carnage, more carnage, and yet more carnage both on and off the water! Excellent!

[Chris_Headleand]

Ill have my video camera out there... though im not sure how many tapes/space ill have to film it all..

Ill certainly get some of it down on video though if it goes ahead

[David McCraw]

The only problem with safety cover is that people will rely on it - what if you throw both ends of your bag and someone from another uni swims down something nasty?

My preferred option would be to have two separate teams (def. no more than 4), with clubs providing what protection (and taking on that responsibility) they want themselves.

If there are masses of us (and let's face it, the guisane isn't a big river) what's the contingency plan? Heats? Timing?

Any better ideas for a name yet?

[Steve B]

For those who are up to it, the Guisane would make a fantastic venue for a race, no question about it. But as an outside observer and old fogey, I wonder whether the lower Guisane on a mid-June afternoon might not be just a wee bit hard for many of those who would want to take part? Sport For All, and all that - you don't want to make it too exclusive.

With the talk of previous low-level runs, I also wonder whether some might not have seen the lower Guisane at a proper level? It's (IIRC) 6 km of very continuous 3/4 with the potential for some long swims and a lot of lost kit. Hopefully nothing worse.

[David McCraw]

I've done it in a mid-June evening, and it wasn't much like the scrape I was used to - definitely pumping.

However, last time I was in the Alps we raced UCD down the Gyr in the evening, which I'd say is both harder and more serious (albiet shorter).

We'd have the upper first for those who are less sure of themselves, after all.

Volenti non fit injuria and so on?

[Steve B]

Volenti non fit injuria isn't the point I was making - it's the participants I'm concerned about, not the organisers!!

But maybe I've slightly misunderstood - are you thinking of the kind of team event where they all have to finish within (say) 30 seconds of each other? That way each team could include a stronger support paddler on the Upper without gaining any advantage. Or a slightly weaker paddler on the Lower without pushing their luck. You could allow both threes and fours, there is little if any advantage either way but weaker teams might like to go as a four for extra support.

[David McCraw]

Well, the principle is the same - you know what you're getting into, if you're not up to it, don't do it? (This is how I spend 100% of my time on the water!)

I think we're definitely talking about a team event, not a huge mass of individuals. Hence providing own safety cover (if desired) etc.

[RichA]

It's a team event, so a team would all have to finish that section together, rather than one person racing ahead.

As David says, I think each individual club should make the decision of whether they feel people can paddle the Lower section. If not, then I'm sure clubs could combine forces to make a team that can. The Upper section is available to anyone. I don't remember anything challenging except for S-Bends. If that is the changeover point, I'm sure some clubs could be allowed to changeover above or below it, depending on whether they want their first team to paddle it or not.

Each club providing it's own safety would be ideal, but I think we'll end up with too many people putting safety on at one point. ie 50 lines all ready and thrown at the same time at the bottom of S-Bends. If people are sensible then I can't see there would be a problem though.

What's the prize!?

[Steve B]

Well, the principle is the same - you know what you're getting into, if you're not up to it, don't do it? (This is how I spend 100% of my time on the water!)

I don't think it is the same at all. Regardless of whether or not you actually have a liability (and it was you who raised that point with volenti non fit injuria - but you'll be under French jurisdiction), you are supposed to be organising an event. This is not like meeting up with a like-minded group from UCD and bombing down the Gyr. You have to think about what will work, and what the people who are going to be there can realistically be asked to do. People are supposed to enjoy it. It's no good organising something too hard and too dangerous then washing your hands of it with the kind of comment you have just made.

It is completely irrelevant what *you* do 100% of the time. You are a very experienced paddler and the organiser. I'm thinking about the typical Uni paddler - that's who you are organising this for. I think.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great idea, and it will be a big success if you get things right.

[Steve B]

Each club providing it's own safety would be ideal, but I think we'll end up with too many people putting safety on at one point. ie 50 lines all ready and thrown at the same time at the bottom of S-Bends.

The Guisane is the perfect venue in that respect - I can't actually think of anywhere where a fixed safety set up with throwlines would be especially necessary- you can do all the safety cover from boats within the group. But if you think that for the smooth running of the event throwlines at the S bends would be a good idea, why not let the shuttle bunnies do that? Access from the road is ok as far as I can recall (it's been a while though).

[Grandad]

Prize could be the Exeter Uni camp flag that Scumbag Old Boy Ross stole last year. If they want it back then they can try and win it (if they're there).
By the way Rich, we said you stole it.

[David McCraw]

This is not like meeting up with a like-minded group from UCD and bombing down the Gyr. You have to think about what will work, and what the people who are going to be there can realistically be asked to do. People are supposed to enjoy it. It's no good organising something too hard and too dangerous then washing your hands of it with the kind of comment you have just made.

It is completely irrelevant what *you* do 100% of the time. You are a very experienced paddler and the organiser. I'm thinking about the typical Uni paddler - that's who you are organising this for. I think.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great idea, and it will be a big success if you get things right.

You are spot on, but I specifically don't want to take on any kind of organisational role (beyond the initial suggestion and throwing ideas into the mix). I'm packing tonight, leaving tomorrow and the next I'll hear about it is when we rock up on the 16th with beer and boats - hopefully there will be people around that are up for it (and it sounds like it!)

While it would be nice to think that I'm capable of organising a foreign Liquid Life 48 hours before leaving for the Alps myself, that's not going to happen (and I don't have big enough balls to be the fall man anyway!)

A genuine "National Student Alpine Champs" would take months of organising and co-ordination with locals (not that I'm saying it's a bad idea) - the informal, like-minded groups approach is exactly what I think would be best here.

[Steve B]

While it would be nice to think that I'm capable of organising a foreign Liquid Life 48 hours before leaving for the Alps myself, that's not going to happen

Wuss ;-)

[CraigRockliffe]

A late request for this event but Bristol Uni will be heading out to the alps a bit later than all you lucky guys. About 30 of us are heading out as soon as the term finishes, which will be the 24/25th June, to L'argentiere.

Whilst this is after your planned date of the 16th, I am sure a load of us would be up for some kind of rerun of the event for the latecomers. There must be some other uni's that finish late and would be up for a second event.

[lozbrown]

A late request for this event but Bristol Uni will be heading out to the alps a bit later than all you lucky guys. About 30 of us are heading out as soon as the term finishes, which will be the 24/25th June, to L'argentiere.

Whilst this is after your planned date of the 16th, I am sure a load of us would be up for some kind of rerun of the event for the latecomers. There must be some other uni's that finish late and would be up for a second event.

Yes! We (reading) will be arriving on the second of july also staying at l'arentierre and I'm sure we would be up for it.

[David McCraw]

A late request for this event but Bristol Uni will be heading out to the alps a bit later than all you lucky guys. About 30 of us are heading out as soon as the term finishes, which will be the 24/25th June, to L'argentiere.

Whilst this is after your planned date of the 16th, I am sure a load of us would be up for some kind of rerun of the event for the latecomers. There must be some other uni's that finish late and would be up for a second event.

I'm sure there will be stacks of people up for a re-run - at the end of the day we aren't all there at the same time so one date will never suit all!

I'm sorry that I'm going to miss you guys, I did a fair bit of Alpine paddling with Bristol Uni a couple of years ago (and more recently on the Orchy). I particularly enjoyed the swim beers, although the cave boat rescue antics were great too!