Recommend me a Touring Drysuit ??

[Daker]

My appologies in advance if this has been done to death before but new products are always becomming available so looking for opinions on a drysuit for sea paddling which is watertight and remains so for a number of years.

Currently I own a Palm Alutian which cost £500 and after about 2 years of regular use is looking fairly tatty and has appears to be leaking around the butt and feet and possibly other areas, although its hard to say whether the other places are water ingress or just sweat.

When this suit was new I found it to be excellent, watertight, comfortable, good hood, reasonably breathable, lightweaight, but I will not be buying another one as 2 years for £500 does not equate to great VFM in my book. Plus I believe the new model will have a neoprene neck seal which (to my mind) does not make for a dry enough suit for use in challenging sea conditions, tidal races etc.

The cheaper offerings from Lomo and the likes do seem to be fantatic VFM and extremely hard wearing but Im sure have earned themselves the name of 'Damp Suits' amongst a number of owners for good reason.

So, what do folk have that has proved to be watertight, comfortable, durable, and (ideally) value for money ??

[ian johnston]

Hi Daker,

I've got a Lomo Renegade; it's over four years old, and is still watertight and undamaged despite getting regular use and a bit of abuse (a trip over barnacle covered rocks minus boat recently failed to even mark it).

As regards breathability; I run pretty hot anyway but I can say that when used alongside other folk in different drysuits there's no noticeable difference in dampness from sweat. Proper use of baselayers and mid layers will alleviate this anyhow. I do question the emphasis placed on breathability of drysuit materials - in a mountain cag and salopettes there are large areas (all except your back which is covered by a rucsac) in free air to transfer vapour. In a drysuit, your lower half is in the moist, enclosed cockpit; then you have a double waist with a sparaydeck,then a PFD over front and back of the torso. So in effect the only area which will transfer vapour to anything like an efficient level is the arms.

Of the other brands, Kokatat seem to have a good reputation and certainly the cut is better than the Lomo suit, but at > £800 I personally wouldn't consider one when I can get almost three Renegades for the same cash!

Kind Regards

Ian

[Mr Ed]

I recently got a well priced Typhoon multisport drysuit from summit to sea on Anglesey I've been really chuffed with it. The seals are latex and the best thing about it though is that it fits! Trust me at a slim 6' 4" with a 35" inside leg to find something that doesn't only fit but fit perfectly off the peg is nothing short of incredible (the multisport comes in general but also lots of subsizes to get a good fit). 3 year warranty. Top quality metal zipper, convenience zip is great. internal braces, tough material. The only negative is the lack of a hood but I can live without one really. If it had this it would be the perfect drysuit. Definitely worth taking a look IMHO.

[No Kayak]

My experience selling Kokatat gear was not a good one. There were far more returns than I found acceptable, even on the GTX products and Kokatat's attitude when told it wasn't an acceptable situation for a premium product, was a shrug of the shoulders. Returns had to be sent to the US, at the expense of the retailer, and took far too long for the customer to find acceptable.

To be fair, their customer service level may have changed as part of their switch to System X as distributor, but before spending £800+ on a Kokatat drysuit, I'd be making serious enquiries about what happens in the event of a failure.

[watt]

I still use a very cheap (250 EUR) 4 years old GUL Infra, breathable to a certain amount (spraydeck and PFD...), with neoprene seals. Front zip. Still watertight although I don't take care for it.

[Graham T]

For what it is worth a few observations. The top level Typhoon suit for touring which is expensive I believe comes with neoprene type gaskets. A "dry suit" is not really dry inside in my experience just wet to different degrees. If you speak to Andi at Dam X he will echo the sentiments above as to how much a breathable suit is of value due to legs in boat etc as pointed out. That said I have had an Aleution suit and thought it great, but it failed completely on day 14 from material delamination. Palm were great but reliability is important to me. I have had a Dam X suit and used one or two or the old original Typhoon suits for dinghy sailing and now have several pieces of Goretex gear from Kokatat.
The advantage of the Goretex for me is that once you have changed the suit breaths until you are in the boat so sweat carrying the kayak prior to launch etc, and at the end of the day if you wish once the deck and PFD are removed so long as it is not raining you dry out inside, is it worth it for that you decide.
Back to the latex seals, obviously if the seal fails the suit is NBG I found the Kokatat seals to be rubbish in terms of life span. They are date stamped and although my Tec Tour top had been used only for one week and had been stored dry and in the dark on inspection prior to next outing a year later the wrist seal one side was rotting nicely. I bought a Rogue dry top and it must have been in the shop for a year or so prior to purchase and the seals are not giving me confidence from inspection.
Note I do use their recommended 303 protectant take great care of my kit, avoid lotions etc any where near seals and clean them with pure soap etc.
The British seals as used by Dam X however without care appear to be good for at least five years. I used to use seal saver on them but have been informed this actually shortens the life of these seals (go figure) It is all to do with the chemistry involved and possibly some patenting of this.
The Tec Tour now has Brit seals on it at the wrist, and if the others fail (dry top or full suit) I will have these fitted.

This experience means I would look if buying again at the cheaper suits myself such as the Typhoon if it fits well enough or having a Dam X one made. The Dam X cloth is very tough and abrasion resistant but far less flexible so perhaps not so comfy.

I looked at the Nookie latest version dry pants and the material is nice but again the latex seals did not inspire confidence.

As with all things I am sure others will have different experiences with the same kit.

[MikeB]

My experience selling Kokatat gear was not a good one. There were far more returns than I found acceptable, even on the GTX products and Kokatat's attitude when told it wasn't an acceptable situation for a premium product, was a shrug of the shoulders. Returns had to be sent to the US, at the expense of the retailer, and took far too long for the customer to find acceptable.

To be fair, their customer service level may have changed as part of their switch to System X as distributor, but before spending £800+ on a Kokatat drysuit, I'd be making serious enquiries about what happens in the event of a failure.

Kokatat now have a repair agent in UK - "Alterations and GORE-TEX sock replacement in the UK/Scotland:
Scottish Mountain Gear (Musselburgh, East Lothian) 0131-653 1310" - they cant do latex seal replacement though. Kokatat authorised a minor (and essentially cosmetic) repair to my drysuit FoC - this on a suit which was about 5 years old at the time. In fairness, I had to get it to Edinburgh but I was going over there anyway. The suit was returned at no charge, and within a tight deadline too.

The change of importer and (hopefully) resultant improvement in availability as more retailers stock the kit will further improve things I expect.

Mine is excellent, very breathable and comfortable. While I'd not presume to question the expertise of a respected manufacturer of dry suits, I would comment that it does breath in a "moist, enclosed cockpit". If it didn't, I'd get damp. I don't, notwithstanding a slight dampness under the ba. Whether they are value for money is another matter, but they are very good suits. A pal paddles with the top-of-the-range Typhoon and says nice things about it. Several other friends use Lomo and say nice things about them too.

As regards seals, the wrist seals on my previous Tec Tour cag were still fine after 6 years or so, while the shoulder areas were showing signs of wear. I replaced it with a Palm cag but ended up going back to K/tat after a year or so as I found it didnt breath that well although it was otherwise a good bit of kit. Mike.

[Graham T]

Hi Mike just goes to show what I said other people have different experiences maybe my wrists etc sweat a more corrosive product perhaps if I drank more Whiskey it would improve things! do you use a seal saver on yours ?

[MikeB]

Hi Graham - well, a large Jamiesons always goes down well - -

My care regime is limited to Johnsons baby talc to help put them on, and occassional "seal saver" stuff - maybe I've just been lucky. Midge repellant will kill the latex - could it have been that? The other lethal thing seems to be ozone - I used to dry cags in a boiler cupboard where the central heating pump would have been producing the stuff. Mike.

[No Kayak]

Kokatat now have a repair agent in UK - "Alterations and GORE-TEX sock replacement in the UK/Scotland:
Scottish Mountain Gear (Musselburgh, East Lothian) 0131-653 1310" - they cant do latex seal replacement though. Kokatat authorised a minor (and essentially cosmetic) repair to my drysuit FoC - this on a suit which was about 5 years old at the time. In fairness, I had to get it to Edinburgh but I was going over there anyway. The suit was returned at no charge, and within a tight deadline too.

I was hoping it'd changed. SMG were only authorised to do socks for a period of time, and then there was a massive argument over who should pay for them to stock replacement socks...

Meanwhile consumers rightly got royally pissed off.

My belief has always been that if you buy a so called premium product, you should get a premium service from the manufacturer. That should mean you contact the retailer about a problem, the retailer contacts the manufacturer and in turn they bend over backwards to protect the reputation of their product (assuming at that point it may be a manufacture fault or instead misuse of the product, but that's not known yet). Once you've established whether it's a fault or misuse, the manufacturer should then continue to bend over backwards to support the premium product, or argue about the nature of the fault, whichever appropriate.

Some cheaper products that don't live up to the specification lived up to by those made by Kokatat quite rightly get repeat custom because the support offered by those manufacturers is far better than Kokatat used to offer.

If it's changed as you say Mike, so much for the better!

[MikeB]

My belief has always been that if you buy a so called premium product, you should get a premium service from the manufacturer. That should mean you contact the retailer about a problem, the retailer contacts the manufacturer and in turn they bend over backwards to protect the reputation of their product (assuming at that point it may be a manufacture fault or instead misuse of the product, but that's not known yet).

I agree fully - I had excellent service from Palm when a set of sallys failed within a year. Whether I should have to rely on a 1 year warranty to cover that sort of thing is another matter, given the price of the things. Accepting that they replaced the sallys without question, it was still hassle - and expense in returning them. I've no complaints over the service I got from Kokatat although I have jsut remembered that they originally wanted me to send the suit to the states! Yeh, sure.

Mike.

[Graham T]

Hi Mike thanks for the info. I know about the ozone thing is it from electric motors ? anyway no the garment were cleaned dryed and put into bin liners or drawers well away from heat/cold/ and any electrical equipment etc so no UV light.
To be fair I have not claimed for them as they are in effect not an item covered under warranty. The Tec Tour was bought from Backcountry in the USA and their own gntee would actually allow me to send it back for replacement or refund at anytime during the life of the garment but that would not be right in my eyes. The Expedition dry suit came from Ireland and I have no issues as yet,.
Therefore my observations are as much to do with the weak point on a dry suit in my eyes, and my experiences. In all the time I sailed I never ripped or lost a seal, and have not done so yet but the Tec Tour had those tell tale cracks in it, and I dont think their seals are the best.
Palm were great they offered me a new suit which when I declined they liased with the retailer who had not stood behind another faulty product (Silva compass which came off its gimbal at three days old, Silva were great and replaced it without any problems) so I refused to deal with them, but Palm did this on my behalf for a full refund, top marks there for customer service.
I read many "American" reviews for Kokatat and all appeared to regard their customer service as top notch, so perhaps it is a UK problem not sure on that one.

[Owen]

I've have the yellow Lomo suit about four years. Last year I started getting a wet bum in it. I took it to Lomo, a new latex boot, repaired seems in the backside, leg and zip all for about £20-30 I think. Been as good as new since. I wash off the salt and dry, put talc on the latex every now and then, that's all.

If it had a hood it would be prefect.

[Mark R]

Weren't Lomo going to develop a touring suit? Did anything ever come of this?

[pamf]

I and husband have had Typhoon Multisport drysuits for a year and 9 months now with no problems at all. Latex seals are hardier than Palm Aleutian and are holding up well. We've been pretty impressed - and it's esp nice to have the 3 year warranty, as yet (happily) untested.

[6950rpm]

I have a Typhoon Multisport and a Palm Aleutian.

The Palm is so much more cofortable to wear in my opinion especially around the neck. The Typhoon has a neoprene collar which rubs and chafes the neck making it quite unpleasant to wear for any length of time I find.

The 2012 Aleutian is available with a latex neck seal on request.

[PeterG]

Wife and myself have Typhoon multisports and cannot fault the build. The neoprene outer neck needs some experimentation with the best way to velcro it to protect the inner latex without rubbing your neck. We now have comfortable solutions, it does seem an odd design at first.

It seems to me that if you are touring it is just when you do need a really dry dry suit and not one with a neck opening which will leak if not tightly sealed if you do go in. If you can risk getting wet in a capsize then a touring top and dry trousers are both comfortable and keep you dry launching, sitting in and recovering the boat. This is my summer touring option. November to May a dry dry suit every time.

[Fast Pat]

Over the years I have had a number of suits. The Palm Aleutian had gallons of extra material and delaminated - Palm repaired without problems. Got a Nookie Assassin next, lovely soft well cut breathable fabric, used it for two years with a lot of wet work and no leaks. Have recently changed it for the Peak Adventurer attracted by the idea of being able to vent the neck for hotter days whilst sealing things down for the wet work, performance so far has been very good. I also bought a pair of the Nookie Bib pants for those days when I want a more flexible approach so impressed was I with the fabric.

[pamf]

As luck would have it, within a couple of days of posting the above, I discovered a splitting seam at the backside of my Typhoon Multisport (no, I haven't put on weight!). I called Typhoon, who told me to mail the suit to them and that they'd get it back to me asap. I sent it off and received it back in a week, all under the 3 year guarantee, with no questions asked.

Very impressed!

[AdamL]

How about a Reed suit. They are comfortable, easy to repair, local and cheap. Seems to me that time to failure in a drysuit is independent of cost. I have looked at Kokatat here in the States and they still seem expensive at $1000. Reed dont have the issue of latex seals, and for me a drysuit is not about keeping you dry as such, it is about preventing cold water shock if you end in the water through letting lots of water in. So a bit of seepage is not a problem. In any case, comfort issues aside, it appears that the cheapest drysuit is the best drysuit.

[Colin C]

Some cheaper products that don't live up to the specification lived up to by those made by Kokatat quite rightly get repeat custom because the support offered by those manufacturers is far better than Kokatat used to offer.

I can give you an up to date view on this as I have just had to have a Kokatat suit replaced. I had noticed a stitching fault and it was repaired by Scottish Mountain gear, but when I got it back I found another stitching fault. Given the price of the suit I did not expect to find any faults, so asked for it to be replaced. This was done by System X promptly and without any dispute. This was good customer relations, and matched the expected level of customer care for a premier product.I don't know what customer care was like before, but you can have faith in the new distributor, if my experience is anything to go by.

Colin

[MattB]

Colin C,
how old was your Kokatat suit? Was it a gore-tex suit?

Thanks

Matt

[Colin C]

how old was your Kokatat suit? Was it a gore-tex suit?]

Matt it was the expedition gore tex suit and was brand new.

Colin

[MYSSAK]

My wife and I both have Thyphoon Multisport. They are reasonably priced, and my wife likes the various sizing, especially the relax line. We have used them on our expedition around the UK. What we can say is that they are comfortable, dry and fairly breathable. And they have the great metal zips, which only needed regular care to keep them moving.
Unfortunately they both had their neck seal broken, my wife's broke on the 11th day of use, mine did after 30. Hers we did cut a bit, mine didn't. Her drysuit also developed little hole in the seem on the outer reinforcing layer of the knee after day 12th.
The 3 year warranty is great as no drystuit lasts long. We have to say customer care at Typhoon was great, they replaced Natalie's straight away and repaired mine fast. The only problem was to sort out delivery address:-)

Only we are not sure what to think of reliability as we are on four months journey and needed them everyday. If this happened outside UK, I don't know how great the customer care would be, but we do not see them as reliable expedition suits. I guess for weekend paddling they are great.

But we also had Opportunity to try Lomo, which wasn't very comfy, the zip felt like wearing a coat hanger, and Assassin from Nooki, whose seams were falling apart even that it was used just for few times. We also witnessed the zip of both Lomo suits and Palm suits open as in opening/coming apart while being worn paddling, not good.

Michal & Natalie